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31
DB Cooper / Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on September 19, 2021, 02:28:53 AM »
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...which end of an airplane takes off first?


Tricycle gear or taildragger?   hehehe

How about a VTOL? :)
32
DB Cooper / Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Last post by dudeman17 on September 19, 2021, 12:36:15 AM »
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...which end of an airplane takes off first?


Tricycle gear or taildragger?   hehehe
33
DB Cooper / Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Last post by georger on September 18, 2021, 11:46:24 PM »
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I was looking at the FBI document below from Tom Colbert's site.  From page 11 of the PDF through page 18, they are looking at a suspect who was brought to their attention by another Northwest Orient Flight crew.  Apparently, the day before the hijacking, November 23rd, 1971, there was a man on another NWA flight who was asking the crew about everything that Cooper wound up instructing the flight 305 crew to do in order for him to jump: Flap settings, landing gear lowered, feasibility of parachuting from the rear.  It's all heavily redacted of course.

They seem to follow up and obtain a picture and intend to show it to a witness, but it kind of stops there.  I presume they eliminate the suspect?

Has anyone seen this before ?  What are the odds that the day before the actual hijacking, someone was inquiring about how to jump from a 727 and it not be related ? I was just curious if the Vortex has seen this before and had any additional context on it.

I believe there was another similar type event that happened in earlier November where there was someone asking similar questions claiming to be some type of movie producer who was writing and trying to find out these details as well.  I believe that is completely separate from this event I am talking about.

(Document Name)
116-cv-01790 – 164A-SE-81 Section 1, Part 2A (11/26/71 to 11/28/71; 118 pages)

(Direct Link)
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(Here is a screen shot of the first page)

Your snippet from your (Document Name) 116-cv-01790 – 164A-SE-81 Section 1, Part 2A (11/26/71 to 11/28/71; 118 pages): is a two page document. Pages 011-012, DBC 1773-4 in Part 2A. Here are both pages attached. Interesting and a good find! I wonder how this was resolved? Thanks ...

The sighting is from a Nov 23rd NWA flight, the day before the hijacking. What flight was that? Being reported out of the Minneapolis Office? Questions passenger asked are a fit with Cooper hijacking.  Description fits Cooper ?

Anything further about this that you know of? Obviously folks at NWA were on the hunt and referring incidents they remembered to the FBI. Looks like this person was identified and investigated?
34
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by georger on September 18, 2021, 11:42:19 PM »
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Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

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When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".


Just as a matter of logistics, if this plane was parked on the ground and the kid was just sitting in it listening to the radio, not talking back but just listening, I don't see how any airport manager would have any idea about it. They just would not know it was happening.

A few airport managers were aware of the hijacking and made decisions about their airports ?  How they were aware or who notified them, I dont recall. Did these managers know the route 305 was taking? I dont know. I do recall the Troutdale manager saying he inquired the next day which side of Portland 305 had crossed on - the West he was told. He also noted some small airports closed their airports, in part due to the weather that night.

He told me he was waiting for two flights to come in when he got word about the hijacking, and he waited until his two flights had landed, then he closed the airport and waited for news that the hijacked flight had passed PDX.     

The guy might still be alive to interview? 
35
DB Cooper / Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on September 18, 2021, 11:38:24 PM »
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“oscillations" and "pressure bumps" are two separate things and easily identifiable as such
Yes, Bob. That is what I said.
And what I said is that no one is going to confuse a pressure bump with an oscillation.
If you read the 302s, the FBI repeatedly conflate the two as well as multiple “expert” Cooper researchers.

Anyone who conflated the two was not an "expert".  And the FBI was only quoting the "experts".

Further, in my always humble opinion, the FBI was ill-served by some of the "experts" in the early days of the Cooper investigation.  Or to put it another way, there are "experts" [just ask them] and then there are people who actually know what they are talking about.  Unfortunately, the FBI relied on the former group and here we are today.
We agree.

I don't think so.  For your information, I have never claimed to be an "expert".  How about you?  Do you know which end of an airplane takes off first?  Nice try though.
I’m not sure why you trying to pick a fight.

My point was that “oscillations” and “pressure bumps” are different things but that the FBI and several Cooper “experts” confused and conflate the two. I don’t know if you are in that group or not. I’m assuming you don’t?

Also, I hardly consider myself an “expert”. I don’t have a book or a TV show or a podcast. I’m just a regular dude.

Did you by think my comment was directed at you? It wasn’t.
36
DB Cooper / Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on September 18, 2021, 10:44:13 PM »
hunh?
37
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on September 18, 2021, 10:41:20 PM »
I don't disagree with any of y'all. Marianne's claims are far-out there. I'm just sharing a tidbit of news as it comes in.

G, no I didn't talk to the manager of the Troutdale airport because I didn't see any point to it. I doubt that 305 flew in his vicinity. Flying up the Columbia Gorge is as outlandish as flying over Cle Elum.
38
DB Cooper / Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Last post by Robert99 on September 18, 2021, 08:26:33 PM »
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“oscillations" and "pressure bumps" are two separate things and easily identifiable as such
Yes, Bob. That is what I said.
And what I said is that no one is going to confuse a pressure bump with an oscillation.
If you read the 302s, the FBI repeatedly conflate the two as well as multiple “expert” Cooper researchers.

Anyone who conflated the two was not an "expert".  And the FBI was only quoting the "experts".

Further, in my always humble opinion, the FBI was ill-served by some of the "experts" in the early days of the Cooper investigation.  Or to put it another way, there are "experts" [just ask them] and then there are people who actually know what they are talking about.  Unfortunately, the FBI relied on the former group and here we are today.
We agree.

I don't think so.  For your information, I have never claimed to be an "expert".  How about you?  Do you know which end of an airplane takes off first?  Nice try though.
39
DB Cooper / Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Last post by Robert99 on September 18, 2021, 08:23:46 PM »
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Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

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When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".


Just as a matter of logistics, if this plane was parked on the ground and the kid was just sitting in it listening to the radio, not talking back but just listening, I don't see how any airport manager would have any idea about it. They just would not know it was happening.

Further to the above, previous posters on this site have claimed that there were extremely bad storms in the Columbia River Gorge on the evening of the hijacking.  And since the airliner was headed to Reno, there is no point in flying east into those storms in the first place.

More, there is nothing in the transcripts to indicate that the airliner crew talked to ATC until they had already decided on the route to Reno in consultation with Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle.

All communications from and to the airliner were over VHF radios and they are line-of-sight radios.  If there are hills or any other obstructions between the Shady Acres Airport and SEATAC, then it is unlikely that any such communications could be heard at Shady Acres in the two hours that the airliner was on the ground at SEATAC.

40
DB Cooper / Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on September 18, 2021, 06:20:31 PM »
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“oscillations" and "pressure bumps" are two separate things and easily identifiable as such
Yes, Bob. That is what I said.
And what I said is that no one is going to confuse a pressure bump with an oscillation.
If you read the 302s, the FBI repeatedly conflate the two as well as multiple “expert” Cooper researchers.

Anyone who conflated the two was not an "expert".  And the FBI was only quoting the "experts".

Further, in my always humble opinion, the FBI was ill-served by some of the "experts" in the early days of the Cooper investigation.  Or to put it another way, there are "experts" [just ask them] and then there are people who actually know what they are talking about.  Unfortunately, the FBI relied on the former group and here we are today.
We agree.
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