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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Kermit on Today at 06:54:43 PM »
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Tosaw switches to the dredging as the cause for the Ingram money being at Tina Bar ... date uncertain. (1988?)

Here we go again!

Georger, I didn't say anything about which flight path Tosaw supported, assuming that he supported any at all.

Chaucer apparently believes that Tosaw thought Cooper landed in the Columbia River near the I-5 bridge (which I don't believe existed in 1971).  Maybe Chaucer believes that also, but does Chaucer even know what Chaucer really believes?

So let's look at a couple of examples related to the I-5 bridge landing possibility.  First, note that Tena Bar is about three miles west (and some distance north) of the I-5 bridge.  The airliner was flying almost straight south (about 178 degrees true to be exact) on the WFP when it overflew Tena Bar. 

If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge as a no-pull, then the airliner would have been almost directly overhead of that bridge when he jumped.  If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge under canopy, then the airliner could have been as much as 8 miles or so southwest of that bridge when he jumped if he opened immediately.  If he delayed opening, then the airliner could have been somewhere between 8 miles southwest of the bridge.

Since the WFP passes only about three miles west of the I-5 bridge, the WFP stays in the mix.  Further, there is absolutely no reason for the airliner to be west of the WFP.

Anyone with even a basic understanding of fluid dynamics, the general energy equation, or even high school level physics, knows that if Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge and drowned, then his body and equipment would have been on the Oregon side of the Columbia after the river turns north.  This means that when Cooper passed Tena Bar, his body and equipment would probably have been on the bottom of the shipping channel and very near the Oregon edge of the river.

Basically, the above means that there is no way on God's Green Earth that the money found at Tena Bar got there from normal river flow and dredging has been ruled out by several sources.  To put it another way, Cooper did not land in the Columbia River, drown, and then drift downstream.

I'm sure we will have to go over this again in another month or so.       

Just a note Robert that the Interstate bridge was finished in 1917 as a 2 lane bridge connecting Oregon/Washington.
It was enlarged to its present width in 1958 and it’s been called both I 5 and Interstate bridge. I remember as it was a toll bridge when I graduated in 1959. Perhaps you are thinking of the I 205 (Glenn Jackson ) which wasn’t in existence in 1971,
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 03:54:43 PM »
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Tosaw switches to the dredging as the cause for the Ingram money being at Tina Bar ... date uncertain. (1988?)

Here we go again!

Georger, I didn't say anything about which flight path Tosaw supported, assuming that he supported any at all.

Chaucer apparently believes that Tosaw thought Cooper landed in the Columbia River near the I-5 bridge (which I don't believe existed in 1971).  Maybe Chaucer believes that also, but does Chaucer even know what Chaucer really believes?

So let's look at a couple of examples related to the I-5 bridge landing possibility.  First, note that Tena Bar is about three miles west (and some distance north) of the I-5 bridge.  The airliner was flying almost straight south (about 178 degrees true to be exact) on the WFP when it overflew Tena Bar. 

If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge as a no-pull, then the airliner would have been almost directly overhead of that bridge when he jumped.  If Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge under canopy, then the airliner could have been as much as 8 miles or so southwest of that bridge when he jumped if he opened immediately.  If he delayed opening, then the airliner could have been somewhere between 8 miles southwest of the bridge.

Since the WFP passes only about three miles west of the I-5 bridge, the WFP stays in the mix.  Further, there is absolutely no reason for the airliner to be west of the WFP.

Anyone with even a basic understanding of fluid dynamics, the general energy equation, or even high school level physics, knows that if Cooper landed in the water near the I-5 bridge and drowned, then his body and equipment would have been on the Oregon side of the Columbia after the river turns north.  This means that when Cooper passed Tena Bar, his body and equipment would probably have been on the bottom of the shipping channel and very near the Oregon edge of the river.

Basically, the above means that there is no way on God's Green Earth that the money found at Tena Bar got there from normal river flow and dredging has been ruled out by several sources.  To put it another way, Cooper did not land in the Columbia River, drown, and then drift downstream.

I'm sure we will have to go over this again in another month or so.       
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by georger on Today at 02:32:37 PM »
Tosaw switches to the dredging as the cause for the Ingram money being at Tina Bar ... date uncertain. (1988?) 
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by georger on Today at 02:14:58 PM »
. . . 1988 - Cooper's body and the money bag are no longer on the bottom to be found - must change my methods.
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by georger on Today at 02:06:34 PM »
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Did you even read Tosaw’s book? He actually believed Cooper ended up in the river near the I-5 bridge. Nothing in the book even remotely hints at a WFP.

My Dear Professor Chaucer, I not only have a copy of Tosaw's book but I have read it.  Can you say the same?

In case you missed the essence of Georger's recent posts, Tosaw's activities were concentrated in the Tena Bar area.  He apparently did this based on the best information that he and the FBI had at that time.

And Chaucer, as you should have heard by now, the WFP passes almost directly overhead of Tena Bar.

1. Tosaw never said anything about the FP. He accepted the FBI FP. Tosaw's theory in 1982-5 was that Cooper was a no-pull, went straight down into the Columbia somewhere upstream of Tina Bar and his body with the money still tied around Cooper's waste were snagged on the bottom upstream of T-Bar still available to be found.

2. By 1988 Tosaw is proclaiming that Cooper's body and the money are no longer on the bottom to be found - that the bottom has been swept clean hundreds of times by salmon fisherman nets (every year) and others sweeping and searching the bottom for other reasons. For these reasons Tosaw says he is now going to focus on searching wing dams.

3. Tina was interviewed by reporter Clyde Jabin (UPI) and described Tosaw as being "pushy and not too logical".

4. Tosaw's idea was that the Ingram find was bundles of bills Cooper pulled from the bag and offered the stews as a 'tip'; and the rest of the ransom was still tied around Cooper's waste waiting to be found on the bottom of the Columbia. Tosaw was after the money!

5. At some point ~1988, Tosaw decides the 1974 dredging accounts for the Ingram money being on Tina Bar.
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Chaucer on Today at 12:56:08 PM »
Quote
My Dear Professor Chaucer, I not only have a copy of Tosaw's book but I have read it.  Can you say the same?
Yes. I’ve read it multiple times including very recently. If you had read my first post on this thread, you’d know that. Perhaps you should read the book again since you are drawing some very inaccurate conclusions from it.
Quote
In case you missed the essence of Georger's recent posts, Tosaw's activities were concentrated in the Tena Bar area.  He apparently did this based on the best information that he and the FBI had at that time.
Yeah, maybe it has something to do with Cooper money being found on that location? Dunno. Just a guess.
Quote
And Chaucer, as you should have heard by now, the WFP passes almost directly overhead of Tena Bar.
Yeah, I heard, and further on it reaches the Candy Cane Forest before eventually passing directly over Oz.

To be clear, there is NOTHING in Tosaw’s book to suggest a Western Flight Path. He repeatedly says that 305 stayed on V-23 and eventually concludes that Cooper ended up in the Columbia near the I-5 bridge.

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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 12:35:01 PM »
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Did you even read Tosaw’s book? He actually believed Cooper ended up in the river near the I-5 bridge. Nothing in the book even remotely hints at a WFP.

My Dear Professor Chaucer, I not only have a copy of Tosaw's book but I have read it.  Can you say the same?

In case you missed the essence of Georger's recent posts, Tosaw's activities were concentrated in the Tena Bar area.  He apparently did this based on the best information that he and the FBI had at that time.

And Chaucer, as you should have heard by now, the WFP passes almost directly overhead of Tena Bar. 
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Chaucer on Today at 11:36:40 AM »
Did you even read Tosaw’s book? He actually believed Cooper ended up in the river near the I-5 bridge. Nothing in the book even remotely hints at a WFP.
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DB Cooper / Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Last post by Bruce A. Smith on Today at 04:32:51 AM »
Sigh.
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DB Cooper / Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 02:32:19 AM »
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Something made Tosaw play his Columbia cards where he did - spent a ton of money - his Nile Kinnick search cost him far less - why did Tosaw place his bets where he did? I doubt it was just for publicity's sake. Tosaw told his divers he had hard FBI info he was following!  What did he think he had and from whom?  ;)


One possibility is that Richard was getting leads from Mike Tosaw in Seattle. Can that be proven? Maybe. We've got to talk with people who were there who can give us an informed perspective on what Mike did, what he knew, and his general behavior. Calling Bob Fuhriman seems to be in order. Will do shortly.

We also have to get our hands on the 300 pages that Charlie Farrell wrote and kept private. That could greatly inform what was going on in Seattle that never made it into these 302s that are seeping into our fingers these days. I'll re-visit this issue with GG in the near future.

I would greatly enjoy a round-table discussion at CC21 with GG, Fuhriman, Detlor, Bob Sale and Sid Rubin and all the other FBI agents active in Seattle during these early days. I hope it happens.

Tosaw told his divers he had hard FBI info he was following!  Tosaw's first public 'announcement' that he was now going to get involved in the Cooper case was to an inconspicuous student newspaper, The Daily Iowa at Iowa City, where he was known because of his previous announcements 'going to raise the Nile Kinnick plane and mount it outside Kinnick Stadium as a memorial ...' which was news to the State University of Iowa etc!  :o

Where was Tosaw's interest in the Cooper case BEFORE money was found at Tina Bar?  That's what many people asked.

Two years passed after Tosaw's call to the Daily Iowan in March 1980 before Tosaw would actually show up in Portland posting ads for divers. And one of the people Tosaw called was John Powelson the owner of Aquatic Sports Dive shop in Portland, OR. He didn't get much from John (because) ... Tosaw then placed ads in newspapers. He didn;t get much from John because John and other (salvage) people who had already been searching areas of the Columbia ever since the end of the excavation at Tina Bar way back in ... 1980. That's two years of searching prior to Tosaw showing up. Moreover, John already had a working relationship with Law Enforcement to report anything of interest, or found. John had a log book where he kept notes about what people were doing in their searches for Cooper and Cooper artifacts, going clear back to just after the hijacking in 1971! John had his own personal interest in the DB Cooper case which preceded Mr. Tosaw's interest by years. John was a personal friend of the lead FBI Agent at Vancouver - attended his retirement party. John had a working relationship with Agents in the Portland office...

John had a whole network of people who kept him informed of searches going on, all over Clark County. John also had a habit of not communicating with the news media, but only with Law Enforcement. John's theory was that Cooper had landed somewhere north of Vancouver then started walking in an effort to get back across the river to Portland, and in the process was relieved of his money, and perhaps of his life.

Georger, I am sure you will deny this since you have your own agenda to pursue. 

But everything in your last two posts above indicates that Tosaw, and apparently a number of other FBI agents, believed that Cooper jumped near Tena Bar.  Tosaw apparently believed it enough to spend about $10,000 (worth about $40,000 or $50,000 today) of his own money searching there for Cooper's body.

What is now known as the Western Flight Path was developed independently of Tosaw's efforts.  But Tosaw's search is one of a number of other things that independently support the Western Flight Path.

Nevertheless, you will continue to deny the validity of the WFP for no logical reason. ::)
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