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DB Cooper / Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Last post by Robert99 on Today at 01:40:17 AM »
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Someone, probably FJ, has posted on DropZone that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego which is apparently a small protuberance in the Williamette River on the south side of Portland.  Lake Oswego is also the name of the subdivision adjacent to this lake with the subdivision known as West Linn being about five miles further south.

In describing his helicopter ride, Himmelsbach states in his book (p. 42) that they took off from PIA and flew to the southwest side of Portland.  He said that he recognized the West Linn subdivision and that he lived there.

At 8:18 PM, the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC.  This puts it directly over the West Linn area.  And that is roughly 20 miles from Tina Bar.  Cooper had long departed the aircraft by the time the aircraft was over West Linn.  The claim of jumping near Lake Oswego can be ignored.

No no no. I have followed FJ daily for years. FJ has never posted that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego.

In fact FJ posted tonight at DZ that your claim is untrue.

Let's leave it at that. Your claim is false. Go see FJ's post at DZ tonight ....

Georger, you need to head back over to DZ to see what FJ has just posted about some of your claims. :))
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DB Cooper / Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Last post by georger on March 04, 2021, 11:59:59 PM »
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Someone, probably FJ, has posted on DropZone that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego which is apparently a small protuberance in the Williamette River on the south side of Portland.  Lake Oswego is also the name of the subdivision adjacent to this lake with the subdivision known as West Linn being about five miles further south.

In describing his helicopter ride, Himmelsbach states in his book (p. 42) that they took off from PIA and flew to the southwest side of Portland.  He said that he recognized the West Linn subdivision and that he lived there.

At 8:18 PM, the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC.  This puts it directly over the West Linn area.  And that is roughly 20 miles from Tina Bar.  Cooper had long departed the aircraft by the time the aircraft was over West Linn.  The claim of jumping near Lake Oswego can be ignored.

No no no. I have followed FJ daily for years. FJ has never posted that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego.

In fact FJ posted tonight at DZ that your claim is untrue.

Let's leave it at that. Your claim is false. Go see FJ's post at DZ tonight .... 
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DB Cooper / Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Last post by georger on March 04, 2021, 11:54:12 PM »
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(As always I could be wrong, but...) Didn't Kaye's research indicate that the money had not been on Tena Bar for as long as the time since the hijacking? Didn't he conclude that it had only been there for a year or two?

Originally Tom thought the money arrived at TBar in 1971. But he may have changed his position during the years. Im not sure what his current position is - if and when he comes here just ask him!
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by georger on March 04, 2021, 11:45:49 PM »
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If the money entered the Columbia River near Tomahawk or certainly Government Island, I can tell you that it's a long trip down to Tena Bar--I believe at least 10 miles. I've boated from Tomahawk to Tena a few times and it's a long slow journey.

Also, the Columbia is a river with a deep channel--about 40 feet--with relatively shallow shoulders closer to the beach. Meaning, if the money entered the Columbia near the center of the river it would sink to the bottom of the channel and eventually be covered under feet of sediment--after all, that's why they dredge regularly.

I simply think that such a scenario is impossible. I believe you could throw a 20 lb bag of cash in the water near Tomahawk a million times and zero times have three separate packets end up buried at Tena Bar for 8 years.
Again, I'm not suggesting the money entered the water and floated along the top by itself, or rolled along the bottom underwater. I'm suggesting it traveled downstream with some other mechanism such as a log, tree branch, or Cooper's body. Assuming an average current speed, that kind of flotsam would probably take 10 to 12 hours to travel from the area between I-5 bridge and the I-205 bridge to Tena Bar. Considering the flood conditions at the time, I don't think it's farfetched to have debris that has sat on the edge of the foliage all winter to be picked up and transported elsewhere downstream.

It's merely a hypothesis. I have no evidence yet to back it up, but I think it as reasonable and logical as others.

When I first began researching Cooper I had the idea that the Salmon Creek could have been a vehicle to bring the money to Tena Bar, but I have spoken with locals who have told me that it isn't big or strong enough to carry debris from the Battle Ground area to the Columbia, and it would take some really funky hydraulics to pull it off.

Good work exploring intelligent options.

Concerning Tom's diatom work, the species of diatoms found suggest exposure for one season (spring to summer). Perhaps into fall. But no particular year can be assigned. Tests that might suggest a time frame have never been done, so far. For example, several dates would be nice to know. (a) the date at which the bundles of money ceased to be exposed to the atmosphere, re- C13 exposure. (b) any breaks in the C13 chain! Cessation of exposure followed by a dead period followed by re-exposure! (c) date for the diatoms on the bills. (d) neutron testing see You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  and (e) other tests.   

For example, in a recent post at DZ, FJ speculated that the Cooper bills arrived and settled on the beach during a June flood when the water level at the Ingram site was six feet over the bills resting on the sand sex feet below - and thence that is how the bills got exposed to diatoms. I had to chuckle reading that because, diatoms live in surface columns only, usually no deeper than 3 ft. Why? Diatoms require a rich supply of oxygen. Diatoms live the shallow surface column only. ..........  Its small details like that that can make or break people's theories!  ;)     
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DB Cooper / Re: CooperCon 2021
« Last post by EU on March 04, 2021, 09:30:23 PM »
Just received word that Brett Eichenberger will be a part of CC21. Brett heads up a production company and is a movie director from Portland. His current project is a badass Bigfoot documentary--I have viewed the trailer and it is a first class doc.

I have always had in mind expanding CooperCon beyond DB Cooper. DB is obviously the star of the show and the backbone of the event, but I want to develop CooperCons into festivals that celebrate the Pacific Northwest at large. So Brett will serve as our first foray into this new territory.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on March 04, 2021, 08:55:11 PM »
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If the money entered the Columbia River near Tomahawk or certainly Government Island, I can tell you that it's a long trip down to Tena Bar--I believe at least 10 miles. I've boated from Tomahawk to Tena a few times and it's a long slow journey.

Also, the Columbia is a river with a deep channel--about 40 feet--with relatively shallow shoulders closer to the beach. Meaning, if the money entered the Columbia near the center of the river it would sink to the bottom of the channel and eventually be covered under feet of sediment--after all, that's why they dredge regularly.

I simply think that such a scenario is impossible. I believe you could throw a 20 lb bag of cash in the water near Tomahawk a million times and zero times have three separate packets end up buried at Tena Bar for 8 years.
Again, I'm not suggesting the money entered the water and floated along the top by itself, or rolled along the bottom underwater. I'm suggesting it traveled downstream with some other mechanism such as a log, tree branch, or Cooper's body. Assuming an average current speed, that kind of flotsam would probably take 10 to 12 hours to travel from the area between I-5 bridge and the I-205 bridge to Tena Bar. Considering the flood conditions at the time, I don't think it's farfetched to have debris that has sat on the edge of the foliage all winter to be picked up and transported elsewhere downstream.

It's merely a hypothesis. I have no evidence yet to back it up, but I think it as reasonable and logical as others.

When I first began researching Cooper I had the idea that the Salmon Creek could have been a vehicle to bring the money to Tena Bar, but I have spoken with locals who have told me that it isn't big or strong enough to carry debris from the Battle Ground area to the Columbia, and it would take some really funky hydraulics to pull it off.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on March 04, 2021, 08:46:41 PM »
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Keep in mind, If Tom Kaye is correct with the diatoms it dismisses landing in the water that evening.

I don't know, nor do I have a theory on, where he landed. I was just throwing a few cents in on the IF theory.

----

I'll repeat the question I posed on the other thread...  (As always I could be wrong, but) Didn't Kaye's research show that the money had not been on Tina Bar as long as since the time of the hijacking? Didn't he conclude that it had only been there a year or two?

That is incorrect.

Tom's research showed that the money entered--or got wet from--the Columbia River only once during the month of June.

In fact, considering that the money had rotted--north of 75% of the bills were rotted away--indicates that the bills had likely been there the entire 8 years.

This is why I believe the money was buried at Tena Bar the night of the jump and retrieved (albeit three packets left behind) during a historic flood that just so happened to occur in June of 1972.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by EU on March 04, 2021, 08:42:01 PM »
If the money entered the Columbia River near Tomahawk or certainly Government Island, I can tell you that it's a long trip down to Tena Bar--I believe at least 10 miles. I've boated from Tomahawk to Tena a few times and it's a long slow journey.

Also, the Columbia is a river with a deep channel--about 40 feet--with relatively shallow shoulders closer to the beach. Meaning, if the money entered the Columbia near the center of the river it would sink to the bottom of the channel and eventually be covered under feet of sediment--after all, that's why they dredge regularly.

I simply think that such a scenario is impossible. I believe you could throw a 20 lb bag of cash in the water near Tomahawk a million times and zero times have three separate packets end up buried at Tena Bar for 8 years.
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by dudeman17 on March 04, 2021, 08:40:48 PM »
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Keep in mind, If Tom Kaye is correct with the diatoms it dismisses landing in the water that evening.

I don't know, nor do I have a theory on, where he landed. I was just throwing a few cents in on the IF theory.

----

I'll repeat the question I posed on the other thread...  (As always I could be wrong, but) Didn't Kaye's research show that the money had not been on Tina Bar as long as since the time of the hijacking? Didn't he conclude that it had only been there a year or two?
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DB Cooper / Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Last post by Chaucer on March 04, 2021, 08:21:05 PM »
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Keep in mind, If Tom Kaye is correct with the diatoms it dismisses landing in the water that evening.
Well, he said that if the money was packed tightly it could prevent the diatoms from infiltrating in between the bills. Still and all, I think it’s doubtful Cooper landed in the river that night. Perhaps in the northern bank between the two bridges or one of the islands such as Tomahawk, Lemon, or Government.
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