You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

This recent video by Dan Gryder, 'DB Cooper, Deep Family Secrets", released on the 13th of December, is very compelling in my opinion.  Mr Richard Floyd McCoy deserves another long long look.  I find Gryder to be very intelligent and articulate and he has presented perhaps the best case I have ever seen.  I know many of you will not agree and will actually hope to hell he is wrong.  But what if he is right?  I find the late FBI agent in charge, you know his name, I wont try to spell it, to be incompetent and I will never know how he made it to that position.  My only problem with them losing the cigarettes deliberately, is they did not know about DNA in the 70s.  But I do not know when they lost the cigarettes.  Gryder sure put his work in, you have to give it to him.

With all due respect, Doc, no one gets credit for hard work. Gryder may have put a lot of effort into his presentation, but it is inherently flawed. The evidence against McCoy being Cooper is substantial, and additionally, Gryder ignores the science in the case which is a fatal flaw.

Just what is the evidence against him being Cooper?  The alibi for his location?  Not good enough

It's been discussed frequently on here in recent days. Eye witness statements that he was home on Thanksgiving. His accent and speech pattern. His age. His fingerprints. Etc. A closer look at McCoy always results in the same conclusion:  he was not DB Cooper.

Just what is the evidence against him being Cooper?  The alibi for his location?  Not good enough

Evidence Against McCoy being Cooper:

1. All three flight attendants - Tina, Flo, and Alice - ruled him out based on photos and voice recordings.
2. Seattle-based, apparently, interviews that revealed McCoy was home, ie: testimony from McCoy's sister-in-law, Denise Burns, and an individual from BYU who claims he saw Richard McCoy at 10 am in his home.
3. Height - too short; reports vary from 5'6" to 5'10"
4. Age - too young at 28.
5. How did McCoy get titanium, aluminum, and rare earth minerals on his clip-on tie? (Hat tip to Eric for this one).
6. Money deposit at T-Bar unlikely by a bag drop into the Columbia, as espoused by Dan Gryder, due to lack of winter-time diatoms on the ransom bills found in 1980.

Evidence for McCoy being Cooper:
1. Salt Lake City FBI agents, led by SAC Russ Calame, got copies of McCoy's credit card receipts for gas in or around Las Vegas for Nov. 23 and Nov. 25.
2. Calame's team got a copy of McCoy's collect call from the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas to his home in Provo at 10 pm on Thanksgiving Day, Nov. 25.
3. Denise Burns confirmed to Dan Gryder that she was home alone with the two kids, Chante, aged five, and Rick, a toddler, for 3-4 days during the Thanksgiving Day holiday.
4. Chante and Rick McCoy say currently that they have always known their father to be DB Cooper but kept quiet for 50 years to ensure their mother and grandmother did not face any prosecution or legal difficulties.
5. Multiple family members told Bernie Rhodes that the tie and clasp found on Flight 305 was identical to one owned by Richard McCoy.

Glaring Errors or Omissions in the Gryder's Docu
1. Ralph Himmelsbach was not the "Special Agent in Charge." That was J Earl Milnes in Seattle and Julius Mattson in Portland.
2. Ralph Himmelsbach was not the FBI's case agent for the DB Cooper case. That was Charlie Farrell until 1977, and then Ron Nichols afterwards. Both agents were stationed in Seattle, which was the "Office of Origin." Yes, Ralph Himmelsbach says he "named" Norjak, and no one has ever challenged him on that claim.
3. Gryder ignores the fact that Tina Mucklow said on multiple occasions that she saw DB Cooper fashion a rope handle and cinched the money bag closed and attached it to his belt. In addition, he also apparently constructed some kind of small money bag from the "dummy" reserve chute.
4. Karen McCoy apparently had crafted her own relationship with the FBI that ensured her freedom from any prosecution or liability in both skyjackings. How she did that is not known, but it is widely speculated that she opted to work with the FBI after the United 855 hijacking in 1972 and assisted them in locating her husband in Virgina Beach, where he was shot and killed by the FBI. This would seemingly negate the need by the family to keep this all quiet for 50 years.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Just what is the evidence against him being Cooper?  The alibi for his location?  Not good enough

Evidence Against McCoy being Cooper:

1. All three flight attendants - Tina, Flo, and Alice - ruled him out based on photos and voice recordings.
2. Seattle-based, apparently, interviews that revealed McCoy was home, ie: testimony from McCoy's sister-in-law, Denise Burns, and an individual from BYU who claims he saw Richard McCoy at 10 am in his home.
3. Height - too short; reports vary from 5'6" to 5'10"
4. Age - too young at 28.
5. How did McCoy get titanium, aluminum, and rare earth minerals on his clip-on tie? (Hat tip to Eric for this one).
6. Money deposit at T-Bar unlikely by a bag drop into the Columbia, as espoused by Dan Gryder, due to lack of winter-time diatoms on the ransom bills found in 1980.

Evidence for McCoy being Cooper:
1. Salt Lake City FBI agents, led by SAC Russ Calame, got copies of McCoy's credit card receipts for gas in or around Las Vegas for Nov. 23 and Nov. 25.
2. Calame's team got a copy of McCoy's collect call from the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas to his home in Provo at 10 pm on Thanksgiving Day, Nov. 25.
3. Denise Burns confirmed to Dan Gryder that she was home alone with the two kids, Chante, aged five, and Rick, a toddler, for 3-4 days during the Thanksgiving Day holiday.
4. Chante and Rick McCoy say currently that they have always known their father to be DB Cooper but kept quiet for 50 years to ensure their mother and grandmother did not face any prosecution or legal difficulties.
5. Multiple family members told Bernie Rhodes that the tie and clasp found on Flight 305 was identical to one owned by Richard McCoy.

Glaring Errors or Omissions in the Gryder's Docu
1. Ralph Himmelsbach was not the "Special Agent in Charge." That was J Earl Milnes in Seattle and Julius Mattson in Portland.
2. Ralph Himmelsbach was not the FBI's case agent for the DB Cooper case. That was Charlie Farrell until 1977, and then Ron Nichols afterwards. Both agents were stationed in Seattle, which was the "Office of Origin." Yes, Ralph Himmelsbach says he "named" Norjak, and no one has ever challenged him on that claim.
3. Gryder ignores the fact that Tina Mucklow said on multiple occasions that she saw DB Cooper fashion a rope handle and cinched the money bag closed and attached it to his belt. In addition, he also apparently constructed some kind of small money bag from the "dummy" reserve chute.
4. Karen McCoy apparently had crafted her own relationship with the FBI that ensured her freedom from any prosecution or liability in both skyjackings. How she did that is not known, but it is widely speculated that she opted to work with the FBI after the United 855 hijacking in 1972 and assisted them in locating her husband in Virgina Beach, where he was shot and killed by the FBI. This would seemingly negate the need by the family to keep this all quiet for 50 years.

Himmelsbach was in charge of the ground investigation regardless of who his boss's were or what administrators were involved.  But much of this is based on who said this and who you believe.  The phone call from Vegas could have been done by McCoy deliberately They are saying his wife was involved but McCoy was the "brains behind it".  If she really did flip on him while he was on the run, perhaps she did it out of fear?  Save her own ass if she felt cornered.  But there is no solid forensic or DNA proof to prove or disprove whether McCoy, Reca, Rackstraw, Christianson, Weber or any of the unbelievable amount of suspects are Cooper.  There is no smoking gun.  But the case as a whole that was made by Gryder is very compelling and well put together and I see McCoy's daughter as a very credible witness.  It could have been him Bruce.  If I have to put my money on any of the many suspects it would be him.  It sure would not be the woman with the sex change.  And there are so many lies told in this case.  All of these false confessions. There is a better chance of Jack the Ripper being prosecuted or proof of 3 gunmen in the Kennedy assassination than this being solved beyond any doubt.  IMO Richard Floyd McCoy is back on the map thanks to Gryder and his hard work.

 But the case as a whole that was made by Gryder is very compelling and well put together and I see McCoy's daughter as a very credible witness.  It could have been him Bruce. 

I take issue with your characterization of Gryder's work as being "compelling." It is certainly fascinating and entertaining, but it is not compelling. He only has the statements from Chante and Rick and a few distant relatives and friends. Nothing else. His parachute and holding the bag scenario is utter crapiola.

Yes, he also offers Calame and Rhodes' work, but that is not new, and is mostly a counter-balance to the alibi story presented by the Seattle office. Yes, Russ Calame and Bernie Rhodes believed to their deaths that Richard McCoy was DB Cooper, but they could never fill the gaps, nor explain the bizarre and troubling lack of support from Seattle, which to me is the bigger story. What is going here when two field offices hold opposing views despite one SAC having solid physical evidence to support his theories?

Apparently, lots of agents in the FBI still believe that McCoy was Cooper. The guy who shot McCoy, Nick O'Hara, confirmed that to me when we spoke in 2016.

Oddly, Ralph Himmelsbach was not one of the McCoy-is-Cooper believers. He held out for the scenario that put McCoy in California, apparently believing Denise's story that Karen and Richard were on their way to Disneyland when they asked her to come down from college and baby-sit the kids over the holiday weekend.

More troubling, Gryder never asked Himmelsbach what he thought of McCoy as a possible Cooper suspect. I guess that tidbit didn't fit the story line Danny wanted to develop.

Yes, Richard McCoy could have been DB Cooper. But I want to know a lot more, and I expect all investigators who tout that scenario to fill the gaps Calame and Rhodes have left unanswered. To wit:

1. If Richard McCoy was DBC, how did he get back from his LZ in Washington? Did he slink back to PDX and fly to Las Vegas where he retrieved his car? Did Karen McCoy fly to PDX with Richard, and did she help him escape? Did she successfully pick him up from his LZ or rendezvous point?

2. How come the money was lost? I'd like to hear details. How come the tied-to-the-waist strategy didn't work?

3. Did he really return home in November 1971 with ransom bills totaling 10K? How come no one saved any? Or did he receive this money in other fashion, ie: payment for some unknown services the night of, such as being a ground guy?

4. What was the true nature of the relationship between Karen McCoy and the FBI. Did she betray her husband? Why did she sue Calame and Rhodes? Was she really a co-conspirator?

One of the things I've noticed with the families who have a suspect or confessee, they all appear very comfortable with their family member being DB Cooper. In fact, what makes them feel uncomfortable is being challenged about their claims, or even just being questioned. From that point of view, it is not surprising that Chante and Rick do not want to talk about their parents.

yeah, people actually like the brag.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 But the case as a whole that was made by Gryder is very compelling and well put together and I see McCoy's daughter as a very credible witness.  It could have been him Bruce. 

I take issue with your characterization of Gryder's work as being "compelling." It is certainly fascinating and entertaining, but it is not compelling. He only has the statements from Chante and Rick and a few distant relatives and friends. Nothing else. His parachute and holding the bag scenario is utter crapiola.

Yes, he also offers Calame and Rhodes' work, but that is not new, and is mostly a counter-balance to the alibi story presented by the Seattle office. Yes, Russ Calame and Bernie Rhodes believed to their deaths that Richard McCoy was DB Cooper, but they could never fill the gaps, nor explain the bizarre and troubling lack of support from Seattle, which to me is the bigger story. What is going here when two field offices hold opposing views despite one SAC having solid physical evidence to support his theories?

Apparently, lots of agents in the FBI still believe that McCoy was Cooper. The guy who shot McCoy, Nick O'Hara, confirmed that to me when we spoke in 2016.

Oddly, Ralph Himmelsbach was not one of the McCoy-is-Cooper believers. He held out for the scenario that put McCoy in California, apparently believing Denise's story that Karen and Richard were on their way to Disneyland when they asked her to come down from college and baby-sit the kids over the holiday weekend.

More troubling, Gryder never asked Himmelsbach what he thought of McCoy as a possible Cooper suspect. I guess that tidbit didn't fit the story line Danny wanted to develop.

Yes, Richard McCoy could have been DB Cooper. But I want to know a lot more, and I expect all investigators who tout that scenario to fill the gaps Calame and Rhodes have left unanswered. To wit:

1. If Richard McCoy was DBC, how did he get back from his LZ in Washington? Did he slink back to PDX and fly to Las Vegas where he retrieved his car? Did Karen McCoy fly to PDX with Richard, and did she help him escape? Did she successfully pick him up from his LZ or rendezvous point?

2. How come the money was lost? I'd like to hear details. How come the tied-to-the-waist strategy didn't work?

3. Did he really return home in November 1971 with ransom bills totaling 10K? How come no one saved any? Or did he receive this money in other fashion, ie: payment for some unknown services the night of, such as being a ground guy?

4. What was the true nature of the relationship between Karen McCoy and the FBI. Did she betray her husband? Why did she sue Calame and Rhodes? Was she really a co-conspirator?

I have my issues with the drop the bag theory also.  But I can't say, no way he could have been Cooper.  I think I can say that more about Rasckstraw because of his young age at the time.  Forensic science is always going to trump human testimony.  We are not likely to ever have that.  I am not saying he was absolutely Cooper.  But I cant say he was not either.  Like I felt before I saw this presentation.  I think there is merit to his argument and to the daughter and son's testimony.  Not absolution by any means.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I have my issues with the drop the bag theory also.  But I can't say, no way he could have been Cooper.  I think I can say that more about Rasckstraw because of his young age at the time.  Forensic science is always going to trump human testimony.  We are not likely to ever have that.  I am not saying he was absolutely Cooper.  But I cant say he was not either.  Like I felt before I saw this presentation.  I think there is merit to his argument and to the daughter and son's testimony.  Not absolution by any means.

McCoy has always been a candidate that you could make a strong circumstantial argument for. Perhaps the strongest. Gryder did just that with his presentation and I enjoyed it. The problem with circumstantial arguments though, is that the persons making those arguments usually only focus on the things that support their theory and ignore the things that disqualify it (see RMB). There are plenty of reasons that have been repeated over and over as to why McCoy probably isn't DB Cooper. Gryder's video did nothing to challenge any of those. Physical evidence probably isn't in the future of this case. There is no ticket stub to be found. There isn't a stack of cash and a parachute sitting around in someone's attic just waiting to be discovered, as much as I wish there were. So, if someone actually knows who Cooper was, some compelling testimony as to why that person is Cooper would be very helpful. Gryder and McCoy's children had a golden opportunity to do just that and didn't. Why? Are they lying? Maybe. Maybe not, I don't know. They seemed sincere. But if they're not lying, then I have to wonder how much they really know. Why hold back if you know more? When Gryder revealed that he had McCoy's children and they were finally ready to talk, that was the time for details. We got zero details. Until there are some specific details that can explain away the reasons why McCoy isn't considered to be Cooper, then they're just another couple of people who believes their family member was Danny boy. No different than any of the others.

Well they stated they did not want their mother prosecuted.   Gryder even comes up with arguments about the Raleigh cigarettes and the comic books.  Not that its proof of any kind. But so far based on all I have seen on the other suspects and all of the arguments and family's telling their stories, I tell you Richard Floyd McCoy is number one on my list.  He was no amateur.  No way.

Richard McCoy is a worthy candidate for the DB Cooper list. After all, he did hijack a jet plane and got away with the moolah.

As for concerns about helping Karen McCoy escape federal prosecution, she seemed very capable of doing that on her own.

Now Chante and Rick, with the help of Dan Gryder, have opened a can of investigatory worms by their confession, even if they don't want to accept that fact. Asking questions about Karen McCoy and her relationship with the FBI seems legitimate.

Chante and Rick are now claiming their mother was an accomplice in two skyjackings. So, they need to explain how she avoided prosecution. Keeping quiet about Mommy for 50 years doesn't cut it. After all, Karen successfully sued Calame and Rhodes. Then became a Ph.D. Social Worker in Salt Lake City. Really? Her employing agency did not do a background check? What's the story here? Was the price of her freedom betraying her husband in 1974?

Further, how do Chante and Rick feel nowadays since Aunt Denise has changed her story at T-Day in 1971?

There's a stink that lingers over the McCoy family and it ain't going away.