Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1309812 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4875 on: December 20, 2021, 11:51:45 AM »
thanks for the detail robert99

I was curious about his Army history, as some reports question whether he was Green Beret, and what his rank was in the Army.
I'm not sure about the Green Beret thing.

I don't know if he was helicoptor pilot during both Vietnam stints or just one or ??
reports say he was "demolition expert" initially?

NY Times in 1972 said
"The suspect, who is a warrant officer in the Guard, said that he had served two tours in ‘Vietnam and had been a member of the Special Forces, or Green Berets."

and
"Mr. McCoy told newsmen he had served two tours in Vietnam, with the Army Special Forces in 1964 and again as a helicopter pilot in 1967."

That makes me wonder if he was demolition expert for the first stint, and then helicoptor pilot for the 2nd stint.
"demolition expert" is reported elsewhere for McCoy.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 11:56:02 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4876 on: December 20, 2021, 12:08:05 PM »
Interesting, McCoy is on the VIP list at NPRC so they make it easier to get his military records (along with other celebrities, politicians, etc)

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they list him on page 94 as
V3360 McCoy, Richard F
Similar to D. B. Cooper. McCoy hijacked a commercial airliner on April 7, 1972 and escaped by parachute. Arrested and convicted, he escaped prison in August and was killed in a shootout with the FBI.



Source of document: National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

Note: NPRC staff has compiled a list of prominent persons whose military records files they hold. They call this their VIP Listing.

You can ask for a copy of any of these files simply by submitting a Freedom of Information Act request to the
address above.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 12:08:26 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4877 on: December 20, 2021, 12:58:23 PM »
Did McCoy give a reason for his hijacking? Was it purely motivated by money, or did he have a "grudge" that we know of?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4878 on: December 20, 2021, 02:44:43 PM »
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Interesting, McCoy is on the VIP list at NPRC so they make it easier to get his military records (along with other celebrities, politicians, etc)

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they list him on page 94 as
V3360 McCoy, Richard F
Similar to D. B. Cooper. McCoy hijacked a commercial airliner on April 7, 1972 and escaped by parachute. Arrested and convicted, he escaped prison in August and was killed in a shootout with the FBI.



Source of document: National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

Note: NPRC staff has compiled a list of prominent persons whose military records files they hold. They call this their VIP Listing.

You can ask for a copy of any of these files simply by submitting a Freedom of Information Act request to the
address above.

Snowmman, you should be able to determine if McCoy was a Green Beret.  I'm willing to bet that the Green Berets have an online website that lists every person who was ever one of them.

Here is my interpretation of some of the information you have provided on McCoy.

Date of Birth - December 7, 1942.  Exactly one year after Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Basic Pay Entry Date - March 31, 1962.  This would be the first date that he entered into a pay status with the Army.  This could have been in a reserve or maybe National Guard status but was probably the date he entered active duty in the Army.  Note that it was shortly after his 19th birthday.  And USA involvement in Vietnam was quite low at that time although I do know some Americans who were being shot at there in 1962.

Date of Rank as a WO1 Warrant Officer - February 14, 1967.  This would be the date that he graduated from Army Helicopter Pilot Training.  I don't remember off hand how long the helicopter pilot training took for people without previous aviation experience in that time frame but he probably started that training before the early summer of 1966.  Assuming no break in his service, McCoy probably served about four years in the Army before getting into pilot training.

The citation that McCoy received was for action in late 1967 in Vietnam. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4879 on: December 20, 2021, 08:46:54 PM »
All, or most, of the above speculations are answered in Calame and Rhodes' book. Two tours of duty in Vietnam. Had a break in between, getting married and living in Provo.

I have never heard what McCoy's motivation may have been, at least from Richard directly. For either skyjacking.... smile.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4880 on: December 20, 2021, 10:38:51 PM »
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All, or most, of the above speculations are answered in Calame and Rhodes' book. Two tours of duty in Vietnam. Had a break in between, getting married and living in Provo.

I have never heard what McCoy's motivation may have been, at least from Richard directly. For either skyjacking.... smile.

I don't think the book is detail-complete
Most of the book's key pages are at this url
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While it's a "movie" page, it excerpts the book

"Selected LDS-related excerpts from the book D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy
Source: D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by Bernie Rhodes. Research by Russell Calame. Salt Lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press (1991)."


You can read through the pages that are excerpted there.

if you believe the book is complete, then spill the beans on details of the Green Beret tour?

« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 10:41:04 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4881 on: December 21, 2021, 01:15:05 AM »
Example of details I'm missing
In 1964, apparently he got the Purple Heart "for shrapnel wounds in his arm and legs."

"He left after one semester to enlist in the Army and served in Vietnam from May 11 to Nov. 23, 1964, as a demolition specialist with the Special Forces (Green Berets). He received the Purple Heart for shrapnel wounds in his arm and legs. He still carries some shrapnel. "

how did that happen?
Was in this article May 1972, Virginia Chronicle. By Murray Olderman, Provo, Utah.
.
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Also from that article:

"His father was in Korea and we lived on the farm of his grandma, Willie Stroud McCoy. He had a pony, Patsy, rode her bareback with bridle. He was a barefoot, free-caring boy. He had an excellent record as a Boy Scout.” He graduated in 1961 from Broughton-Needham High School in Raleigh. He studied printing craft and played the trombone in the band."


Richard enrolled that fall at Brigham Young University. He left after one semester to enlist in the Army and served in Vietnam from May 11 to Nov. 23, 1964, as a demolition specialist with the Special Forces (Green Berets). He received the Purple Heart for shrapnel wounds in his arm and legs. He still carries some shrapnel. “I have his Purple Heart,” says Mrs. McCoy, fondling the ribbon, “it’s mine and I’ll always keep it.”

That's his mother speaking.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4882 on: December 21, 2021, 01:18:46 AM »
That same article has this detail about his Army Commendation Medal. I hadn't seen the detail on that before. Robert99 was right that he apparently became warrant officer connected with his helicoptor training?

On Feb. 14, 1967, he received his flying wings as a warrent officer at Fort Rucker, Ga., and volunteered for another Vietnam tour as a helicopter pilot. On Aug. 12, 1967, he participated in a search and rescue operation near the village of Ap Bien Hoa. The following is from a citation for the Army Commendation Medal with “V” (for Valor):

“A light observation helicopter plane was down due to engine trouble in hostile territory, and Warrant Officer McCoy’s armed helicopter was providing security for an OH-236 helicopter that was assigned to rescue the downed aviator and passenger. Suddenly, the rescue aircraft lost power and crashed near the first aircraft, causing them both to erupt in flames. Despite the extreme danger caused by the burning aircraft plus the danger of enemy intrusion, Warrant Officer McCoy leaped from the aircraft and worked his way through the dense jungles to his comrades. He immediately located the two survivors and led them to his waiting helicopter.”
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4883 on: December 21, 2021, 01:21:50 AM »
I had thought his skydiving was post Vietnam in the USA..
but here's an interesting blurb...He organized a parachuting club in Germany while in the service?
When was he in Germany??? before going to Vietnam?


" In Germany during his service days he had organized a parachuting club at SchwaebischGmuend."

That would be Schwäbisch Gmünd .


That was early? since it was just 1958 when army guys were allowed to sport jump?
 
In April 1958, Army Regulation 95-19 was published, officially authorizing Soldiers to participate in the sport of free-fall parachuting, which opened the door to many who enjoyed the sport. Over the next two years, several sport parachuting clubs were formed at Fort Campbell, Ky., and Fort Bragg, N.C. Soldiers from the two clubs and other military airborne contingencies formed a special team and competed internationally in the Second Adriatic Cup in 1959 at Tivat, Yugoslavia. This all-Army U.S. National team placed fourth out of 14 nations, the highest placement ever achieved by any previous U.S. team. The Army recognized the worldwide publicity potential and the need for a unit to exploit the sport of parachuting. The Strategic Army Corps Sport Parachute Team was born."

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« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 01:26:36 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4884 on: December 21, 2021, 01:30:51 AM »
Hmm. some people say McCoy was inexperienced at the time, in terms of skydiving. Never did a night jump? They had him on "short jumps" because of a "stability problem". Funny because McCoy has been portrayed as "experienced". Sounds like "not much experience"

...

"Bill Dause, an instructor at the Alta skydiving center south of Salt Lake City, who described Mr. McCoy as “a very nice guy” who was “really shy individual,” termed him an “inexperienced” skydiver."

He estimated Mr. McCoy, had made 30 to 40 sport jumps at Alta and said; “We've been (keeping him on short jumps because of a stability problem he's been having. And as far as I know he's never done a night jump.”

He also said that skydivers frequently discussed hijacking planes and that he had given Mr. McCoy some advice “M (joking sort of way.”

New York Times 4/10/72
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« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 01:33:04 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4885 on: December 21, 2021, 09:33:45 PM »
Interesting stuff...


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The Army recognized the worldwide publicity potential and the need for a unit to exploit the sport of parachuting. The Strategic Army Corps Sport Parachute Team was born."

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This article mentions Jerry Borquin, D-22 I think, and original Golden Knight. I knew him, and was privileged to make many jumps with him through the 80's and 90's and on at Elsinore and Perris. Legendary skydiving pioneer. He passed away a year or so ago. In recent years he would occasionally show up at Elsinore just to hang out a bit. None of the young snot-noses had any idea who he was, but I always stopped what I was doing and chatted with him. Nicest guy...


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"Bill Dause, an instructor at the Alta skydiving center south of Salt Lake City, who described Mr. McCoy as “a very nice guy” who was “really shy individual,” termed him an “inexperienced” skydiver."...

Interesting that Bill Dause was connected to McCoy. Dause has had an "interesting' career in skydiving, and has for many years owned and operated the Lodi dropzone in central/northern California.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4886 on: December 21, 2021, 11:17:53 PM »
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Interesting stuff...


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The Army recognized the worldwide publicity potential and the need for a unit to exploit the sport of parachuting. The Strategic Army Corps Sport Parachute Team was born."

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This article mentions Jerry Borquin, D-22 I think, and original Golden Knight. I knew him, and was privileged to make many jumps with him through the 80's and 90's and on at Elsinore and Perris. Legendary skydiving pioneer. He passed away a year or so ago. In recent years he would occasionally show up at Elsinore just to hang out a bit. None of the young snot-noses had any idea who he was, but I always stopped what I was doing and chatted with him. Nicest guy...


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"Bill Dause, an instructor at the Alta skydiving center south of Salt Lake City, who described Mr. McCoy as “a very nice guy” who was “really shy individual,” termed him an “inexperienced” skydiver."...

Interesting that Bill Dause was connected to McCoy. Dause has had an "interesting' career in skydiving, and has for many years owned and operated the Lodi dropzone in central/northern California.

dudeman17: funny and interesting that you can fill in some detail on these old names.
hmm. are you "sure" you're not Cooper?
I mean, more and more "evidence" points to you.
We just need a family member to say they always knew you were Cooper. Preferably female. :)
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4887 on: December 22, 2021, 05:24:02 AM »
Another recent YouTube video by that guy that has Breaden as his top suspect?  Hope I got the name right. Anyway, he attacks McCoy and his mistakes on the second skyjacking.  Saying that Dan Cooper, I will refer to him as that to separate the two events, was less cumbersome, or less sloppy.  He brings up the fact that McCoy brought in the forms that he wrote his demands on and that he made the mistake of leaving one note with the stewardess.  But McCoy knew they were going to be better prepared for these events after the Dan Cooper, Thanksgiving Eve event. Now they had placed trackers in the chutes.  A big move by the cops and McCoy was indeed ready for this.  He had thought of it. That does not make him a blundering Stanley Laurel or Curly.  He brought his own chutes in fact.  Can you imagine that?  Given now you could not bring a stick of gum aboard without them knowing. Yes he leaves a fingerprint .Do we know for a fact that he left no prints on that first event?  He did leave the tie. And leaving the cigarette butts was not a mistake in 1971 given there was no idea of DNA  at the time. It turned out to be huge of course.  I think the biggest mistake McCoy made, and it was perhaps a bit of arrogance on his part, was having the money and chutes at his home 3 days after the event.  Very sloppy.  And there is the guy that picked him up hitchhiking.  Drove him right to his house from what he states!  He should have had him drop him off at least a block away or something.  Sometimes bank robbers, when successful, get a bit careless out of overconfidence.  They got away with it a few times and just assume, its a  stroll in the park or they get cocky to say the least.  And of course McCoy, whether he was the real Cooper or not, sent bigger.  He demanded twice as much money.  (not sure if he asked for any specific currency breakdown, ie, Twenties or hundreds?)  I sure would have.  Hell, twenties would have been very heavy.  i think I said before about 8 gallons of milk.  A gallon of milk is 5 pounds.  Or so they say.  Was he really very sloppy?  Sure sloppy enough for them to be at his door in 3 days and the damn money was there.  And only $30 missing!  Jackpot for the FBI.  But this guy on YouTube was hell bent on blowing Richard Floyd McCoy out of the water.  He did not do it.  He just rambled on.  He has his own book.  Gee, so many books with a suspect and so many damn lies in this case.  The only thing more complicated than this is the JFK assassination.  And the Zodiac is right up there too. No matter what you think of Richard Floyd McCoy, he was some character.  And the composite sketch they came up with fits him pretty good. But of course there were a couple of others that it fit also.  Like Rackstraw. Richard did look older for his age.  The balding was probably the main reason.  The cops really should show the guy a little more respect.  He fought in Vietnam, received a purple heart and other metals, was a green beret.  No he was no boy scout. But he did risk his life for his country, was a war hero and such.  Give him a little respect .  I have no respect for the late Himelsbach.  What a joke that guy was. Dan Gryder did a pretty good job  on him.
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4888 on: December 22, 2021, 05:06:33 PM »
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are you "sure" you're not Cooper?

Well I am getting old, but I'm not that old.
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4889 on: December 22, 2021, 08:44:35 PM »
Regarding McCoy, not sure if anyone has seen or read this before, but I came across the following article and found it to be a pretty detailed description of his hijacking of UAL 855--I still can't get there that he was Cooper.  Although there were some basic similarities, the finer details and the way he went about it and interacted with the crew and passengers is a tough sell for me:

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There's a few good pieces of information:

1) McCoy says he had done a few high altitude jumps while in the army:
"McCoy was an Army parachutist, but it is unknown how many jumps he had made and how many were freefalls. McCoy later reported that he had made three high-altitude jumps with the Army that “didn’t go well,” but it is unknown what he meant by that. Reportedly, he began sport jumping the year before the hijacking and had made at least 30 to 40 jumps in that time. When he had the money, he would jump in Utah with a friend at Alta Parachute Club, located on a small airstrip built in the 1940s."

2) What happened as stepped out onto the aft stairs to jump:
Exiting at Night
In later interviews with curious investigators, McCoy explained his jump, stating that he stood geared up in the open doorway for a very long time before descending the aft stairs. It was almost midnight, the sky was black, and the wind was freezing, yet his hands were sweating. Finally, he was able to collect his wits, take a deep breath and step outside onto the stairs.

As he stepped out, the entire stairway dropped two feet under his weight. Knocked off balance with his 70-pound duffle bag between his legs, he grabbed the right handrail and wrapped both arms around it, desperately holding on. The stairs shook and vibrated. The noise from the jet engines on either side of him was horrendous.