Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 303148 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4350 on: July 14, 2021, 06:08:23 PM »
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In the 'normal' narrative of the flight path, what altitude would the plane likely be at when passing over this area? How far is this area from the airport?

The airliner's altitude was 10,000 feet above sea level as it overflew the Portland/Vancouver area.  The Portland International Airport is only 30 feet above sea level.

And for the zillionth time, the 8:00 PM sequence report for PIA listed two relatively low cloud layers with an overcast at 5000 feet.  This is a visual ground observation and there is no information on any clouds above the 5000 foot overcast.

In view of the above, it is highly unlikely that anyone on the ground saw or heard the hijacked airliner as it passed the Portland/Vancouver area.  The fact that the FBI ignored some of these claimed sightings is a redeeming factor in their investigation in my always humble opinion.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4351 on: July 14, 2021, 06:11:46 PM »
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In the 'normal' narrative of the flight path, what altitude would the plane likely be at when passing over this area? How far is this area from the airport?

Ball-park figures: Heisson is about 75 miles south of Sea-Tac. 305 should have been at 10K altitude. Heisson is about 500 feet above sea level.
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4352 on: July 15, 2021, 06:18:54 PM »
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...it is highly unlikely that anyone on the ground saw or heard the hijacked airliner as it passed the Portland/Vancouver area.


I have to completely agree with that. Airliners climb to altitude pretty directly after takeoff. Apparently Cooper's plane paused their climb at 7K so he could mess with the stairs, but then they continued to 10. The idea of them buzzing a city 75 miles away is highly unlikely. As for the sound, as someone mentioned (I think EU?), the military chase jets are pretty loud, someone might have noticed that, but at 10K and low throttle (to try to keep back with the airliner's speed)?

Sometimes at the dropzone when I'm on the ground, if I notice some people who are there to watch friends/family do a tandem jump, I'll chat with them and try to point things out. As the airplane flies jump run at 12.5K overhead, it can be difficult for them to see the plane, and very hard for them to spot the bodies exiting. And that's in broad clear daylight.

So for these people to just happen to spot Cooper's airliner, especially that one lady who supposedly said she was backing her car out the driveway and happened to notice the plane, and the guy standing on the stairs throwing flares off? At night? Under clouds? I think not...


« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 06:26:43 PM by dudeman17 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4353 on: July 15, 2021, 11:47:59 PM »
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...it is highly unlikely that anyone on the ground saw or heard the hijacked airliner as it passed the Portland/Vancouver area.


I have to completely agree with that. Airliners climb to altitude pretty directly after takeoff. Apparently Cooper's plane paused their climb at 7K so he could mess with the stairs, but then they continued to 10. The idea of them buzzing a city 75 miles away is highly unlikely. As for the sound, as someone mentioned (I think EU?), the military chase jets are pretty loud, someone might have noticed that, but at 10K and low throttle (to try to keep back with the airliner's speed)?

Sometimes at the dropzone when I'm on the ground, if I notice some people who are there to watch friends/family do a tandem jump, I'll chat with them and try to point things out. As the airplane flies jump run at 12.5K overhead, it can be difficult for them to see the plane, and very hard for them to spot the bodies exiting. And that's in broad clear daylight.

So for these people to just happen to spot Cooper's airliner, especially that one lady who supposedly said she was backing her car out the driveway and happened to notice the plane, and the guy standing on the stairs throwing flares off? At night? Under clouds? I think not...

Except that the area in question was a well known noise abatement/noise complaint area ... documented ... and the 727 was flying dirty ? He said she said. Like a fish story. 
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4354 on: July 16, 2021, 09:48:38 AM »
She also said it was so low that they “thought it was going to crash”. You’re not going to say that about an airliner at 10,000 feet.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4355 on: July 16, 2021, 05:04:56 PM »
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...As for the sound, as someone mentioned (I think EU?), the military chase jets are pretty loud, someone might have noticed that, but at 10K and low throttle (to try to keep back with the airliner's speed)?


Ahem... we now know from talking with Cliff Ammerman that he had directed the F-106s 10-20 miles east of 305 and placed them at a 20K altitude. Presumably this took place when he took control of their flights when they entered his sector south of Castle Rock, WA, a few minutes before DBC jumped.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4356 on: July 16, 2021, 05:07:03 PM »
We have a conundrum. Either the eyewitnesses are not telling the truth, or the official narrative that 305 was at 10K when DBC jumped is in error.

 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4357 on: July 16, 2021, 05:31:55 PM »
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Except that the area in question was a well known noise abatement/noise complaint area...


I didn't know that part, so yeah, if they're flying dirty, which would require a bit more throttle, I suppose people might notice the sound. But see it?...


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She also said it was so low that they “thought it was going to crash”. You’re not going to say that about an airliner at 10,000 feet.


Well there's the issue... How credible is that? Every other bit of evidence, including the pilots' statements, indicate that they climbed to altitude. With every other effort by them to accommodate Cooper's demands, for them to still be that low 75 miles after takeoff?...

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We have a conundrum. Either the eyewitnesses are not telling the truth, or the official narrative that 305 was at 10K when DBC jumped is in error.

...Yeah


--------

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...As for the sound, as someone mentioned (I think EU?), the military chase jets are pretty loud, someone might have noticed that, but at 10K and low throttle (to try to keep back with the airliner's speed)?


Ahem... we now know from talking with Cliff Ammerman that he had directed the F-106s 10-20 miles east of 305 and placed them at a 20K altitude. Presumably this took place when he took control of their flights when they entered his sector south of Castle Rock, WA, a few minutes before DBC jumped.


Okay, thanks.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4358 on: July 17, 2021, 09:10:49 AM »
I think anyone attesting to seeing 305 in the Vancouver area is full of shit. There are several reports as well concerning hearing a loud jet. This also seems unlikely to be 305 given its altitude and throttled back speed. The F-106s as the source for the noise--if this is accurate--makes a lot more sense. Not to mention there were two of them constantly passing and circling back around 305, albeit 10 miles or so to the east.

Of note, I have theorized and suspect that the F-106s being several miles east of 305 and flying somewhat more freely are actually the radar plot source for the FBI Flight Path map. In other words, I suspect the FBI Flight Path shows the F-106s and not 305. This, of course, would put 305 on the Western Flight Path as a few of us believe.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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