Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 372007 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3210 on: November 24, 2021, 07:58:20 PM »
The stairs lock when using the normal stair functions. if the plane is equipped with the emergency release it will damage the stairs to where it will no longer lock in the down position. it's goal is to release the stairs so people can get out if they are damaged in a crash and the normal controls fail..

The stairs need to be down when parked. it's balanced to where very little weight in the back will cause it to tip..they either use the stairs or a tail stand to support the tail..we call it a pogo stick in construction..
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 08:01:36 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3211 on: November 24, 2021, 11:53:08 PM »
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The placard has always been suspect. Remember, it could be from 305. But most likely not.

However, I believe Boeing reported that the placard from 305 was missing when they repaired it Nov. 26 at Boeing Field.

Somebody reported it missing - that my recollection too. Who? Documentation?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3212 on: November 25, 2021, 12:16:02 AM »
It was someone from the day of testing that reported it missing. this was only documented after the placard was found. another report stated after the hijacking...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3213 on: November 25, 2021, 12:19:09 AM »
The placard is like a decal or a bumper sticker. it's not going to come off very easy. placards are known to come off the exterior of aircraft. my guess would be fuel related and wind shear peeling it off over time..
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 12:19:27 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3214 on: November 25, 2021, 03:44:58 PM »
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The placard has always been suspect. Remember, it could be from 305. But most likely not.

However, I believe Boeing reported that the placard from 305 was missing when they repaired it Nov. 26 at Boeing Field.

Somebody reported it missing - that my recollection too. Who? Documentation?

I've been wondering the same thing, G. I guess I've got it somewhere in my files, but until that cute, blond intern shows up to sort things out, I'm reluctant to go looking.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3215 on: November 25, 2021, 04:56:21 PM »
It was someone from the flight crew that did the testing..his memory is sharp as ever..he claims the decal was missing two days later when they did the test.

The hijacking was November 24, 1971. the flight test was done January 6, 1972. the statement was made seven years after the fact..his memory is actually dull as can be. it's almost like he was saying this to backup what was found. no other documentation has surfaced..
 

Online Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3216 on: November 25, 2021, 05:59:25 PM »
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It was someone from the flight crew that did the testing..his memory is sharp as ever..he claims the decal was missing two days later when they did the test.

The hijacking was November 24, 1971. the flight test was done January 6, 1972. the statement was made seven years after the fact..his memory is actually dull as can be. it's almost like he was saying this to backup what was found. no other documentation has surfaced..

The airliner was repaired and back in line service within about two days of the hijacking.  It was flown back to SEATAC on Thursday afternoon November 25th (Thanksgiving Day) and would have been repaired on Friday and/or Saturday.  Since the repairs mostly involved the stairs and their opening and closing mechanism, the placard should have been noted as missing (if it was missing) and replaced during the return to service inspection.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3217 on: November 25, 2021, 06:08:10 PM »
Other placards can be seen in the video showing the stairs. the other problem would be having a placard for an emergency option that doesn't appear to be on 305.

Most of the test crew didn't have anything to do with the plane. most wouldn't be involved until the time for the test..

The stairs were opened long before the area the placard was found. the pressure had settled to hardly any movement on the stairs. the placard should of been found around McChord..
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 06:13:52 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3218 on: November 25, 2021, 06:16:19 PM »
Much like hurricane shutters you have pressure involved. the maximum gap is one quarter inch from the wall. anything more allows pressure to pull the shutter off the wall. the decal is strong, similar to a bumper sticker. I have a problem believing pressure got behind it..

Sounds like a negative load is required to pull the placard off the wall. that would occur when the stairs opened..
« Last Edit: November 25, 2021, 06:27:23 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3219 on: November 25, 2021, 08:42:10 PM »
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Much like hurricane shutters you have pressure involved. the maximum gap is one quarter inch from the wall. anything more allows pressure to pull the shutter off the wall. the decal is strong, similar to a bumper sticker. I have a problem believing pressure got behind it..

Sounds like a negative load is required to pull the placard off the wall. that would occur when the stairs opened..

turbulent flow? Think of how much a leafblower can do with 120MPH air flow. The turbulence can be as damaging as a constant force.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3220 on: November 25, 2021, 08:50:53 PM »
Yes, wind will seek out weak spots and slowly tear things apart.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3221 on: December 11, 2021, 01:36:20 PM »
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The placard didn't come from flight 305!

Well I have heard just the opposite reported on many shows on this topic.  So sorry if I do not take your word as gospel.  No offense.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3222 on: December 16, 2021, 01:31:55 PM »
There's been some discussion recently about Rat's statement about seeing the "lights of Portland" and that Cooper jumped before then. If the sky was overcast with two cloud layers, how would that affect the crew's ability to see the city lights? Perhaps the city lights would be bright enough to penetrate the cloud cover?
 

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3223 on: December 16, 2021, 02:55:47 PM »
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There's been some discussion recently about Rat's statement about seeing the "lights of Portland" and that Cooper jumped before then. If the sky was overcast with two cloud layers, how would that affect the crew's ability to see the city lights? Perhaps the city lights would be bright enough to penetrate the cloud cover?

These were experienced pilots - to put it mildly! These people know the difference between light and dark .... just as they know the difference between a camel and a bath tub!

Duhhhhhhhhhh.

This is NOT an issue of fine distinctions requiring measurements. They knew where they were, they knew what they were seeing based on thousands of hours of prior experience .... the only issue is the timing of the reports.  Cooper seems to have had some idea of how much time had passed since becoming airborne and where the plane was .... he knew, for example, the plane was nowhere near Reno or Columbus, KS. He knew he was south of Seattle somewhere approaching the Columbia/Portland.

The clock and the heading of the plane render R99's 'two layers of clouds' irrelevant. Rtzk's statement about what he saw during this time period further renders R99's clouds irrelevant. Read the music! There is no part in the music for 'two layers of clouds'!       
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 03:18:10 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3224 on: December 16, 2021, 03:33:54 PM »
Rataczak has said a lot of things about the whereabouts of 305 when Cooper jumped. In the 2016 HC docu he said that 305 was over land that had an elevation of 5,000 feet, giving Cooper only 5,000 feet of air in which to pull his ripcord. Presumably, this put 305 over the western flank of Mt St. Helens, about 30 miles east of V-23.

In 2009, he told me that 305 was "probably a couple miles east of V-23."

In 2011, Himmelsbach told me that Rataczak told him that 305 was over the Washougal, which is 5-10 miles east of V-23.

The recent commentary presented in the Gryder docu that 305 could see Portland clearly because the weather system was breaking up is brand new information, as far as I know. I had never heard that opinion before.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 03:37:57 PM by Bruce A. Smith »