Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 372890 times)

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3195 on: November 21, 2021, 11:36:12 PM »
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377: There is no data that says there were "3 intact bundles"
I count bundles as something close to 100 bills, as delivered to Cooper.
It's very unclear whether there were chunks from 3 different bundles, just two or maybe even just one.

Yes there were 3 (divided into 12) chunks presented to FBI.

How come no one seems to agree with me on this? It seems huge. As big an issue as the mistakes on the parachutes.

All this talk about the money, and there are basic "facts" that are not well understood.

The timeline, and different numbers, used for "number of bills founds" is totally unclear.
No FBI files give us the info, in any kind of traceable way. (who counted and how? Did they weigh, separate or ?? Did they look at top/bottom start/end serials?? All known)

There is no agreed-on number for "number of bills found" that has any merit.

'The money was badly decomposed and was held together with rubber bands which were so old they crumbled away immediately upon handling. They took the money home where they showed it to INGRAMs brother-in-law, who took the rest of the rubber bands off and was going to dry out the money and try to reclaim it. They had no idea at this time where the money had come from.'
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 11:37:22 PM by georger »
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3196 on: November 22, 2021, 01:13:28 PM »
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Cooper was not a republican.

I want to be the first to make the Cooper discussion, "required" to have a discussion about politics.
Just as important as discussing his hairline.

Are you joking about his political affiliation?  And you realize he received only $20 bills right?  I'm a bit confused by your $100 bill comment.  Ready to go out and do some ground pounding?  Ha.  Send me a plane ticket and Ill help
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3197 on: November 22, 2021, 05:01:24 PM »
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Cooper was not a republican.

I want to be the first to make the Cooper discussion, "required" to have a discussion about politics.
Just as important as discussing his hairline.

Are you joking about his political affiliation?  And you realize he received only $20 bills right?  I'm a bit confused by your $100 bill comment.  Ready to go out and do some ground pounding?  Ha.  Send me a plane ticket and Ill help

hah, questioning me about the money he received?
Do you think he got any bills with consecutive serials?
If so, what's the largest sequence of consecutive serials (no gaps)

There's no end to the minutiae that can be created!
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3198 on: November 23, 2021, 12:03:36 AM »
Quote
Did the shard found 3 ft down actually reside there or was in inadvertently mixed by shoveling and actually resided much closer to the surface.

Contamination of the dig, percentage is low IMHO.

Lets assume the money was buried and the bills deteriorated over time. the fragments should be in the same general area of the bundles, packs, clump, wad etc. Brian comes along and exposes the bills. the FBI returns and starts digging. yes, Brian would of shifted the frags to a certain degree, but not much..

The start of the dig will only be breached by the shovels. the bodies would be several feet from the dig area. now, the surface area as been removed where the money was found. that should also mean all the pieces went with the surface dig down to a foot or so. the fragments that came off the bills couldn't have separated downward? as the hole got bigger and bigger shouldn't be a concern if the money was buried. that area has been dug up long before a 5-10 round hole is dug. I'm not sure how they addressed the top layer surrounding the money location. did they sift the sand like seen in later photo's during the dig?

I just don't think fragments got transferred to different depths, especially, if the money was buried in 1971. even if it got exposed and buried again. they should stay pretty much together. the other problem I've had a hard time with is the story surrounding the spreading of the sand and Palmer showing where the dredge lines were. how can this be if the sand was not pushed that far  it's like telling a story of me walking from point A to point B and showing tire tracks as proof? the story line is skewed.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 12:06:23 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3199 on: November 23, 2021, 01:56:33 AM »
I follow shutter's line of reasoning.
But it's so odd that the so-called  3' deep fragment was so white and flat in the video.
if it was alone, buried down at 3', I would have expected it to have been a little discolored, and not flat.
it looks like it came off one of the bundles that were found, at some point, some place.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3200 on: November 23, 2021, 04:07:08 AM »
Yup, the deep fragments are a puzzlement. Another mystery.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3201 on: November 23, 2021, 12:22:10 PM »
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Quote
Did the shard found 3 ft down actually reside there or was in inadvertently mixed by shoveling and actually resided much closer to the surface.

Contamination of the dig, percentage is low IMHO.

Lets assume the money was buried and the bills deteriorated over time. the fragments should be in the same general area of the bundles, packs, clump, wad etc. Brian comes along and exposes the bills. the FBI returns and starts digging. yes, Brian would of shifted the frags to a certain degree, but not much..

The start of the dig will only be breached by the shovels. the bodies would be several feet from the dig area. now, the surface area as been removed where the money was found. that should also mean all the pieces went with the surface dig down to a foot or so. the fragments that came off the bills couldn't have separated downward? as the hole got bigger and bigger shouldn't be a concern if the money was buried. that area has been dug up long before a 5-10 round hole is dug. I'm not sure how they addressed the top layer surrounding the money location. did they sift the sand like seen in later photo's during the dig?

I just don't think fragments got transferred to different depths, especially, if the money was buried in 1971. even if it got exposed and buried again. they should stay pretty much together. the other problem I've had a hard time with is the story surrounding the spreading of the sand and Palmer showing where the dredge lines were. how can this be if the sand was not pushed that far  it's like telling a story of me walking from point A to point B and showing tire tracks as proof? the story line is skewed.

So Shutter, let me ask you this.  Don't you think that plate with the instructions to lower the rear stairs, found by a hunter could actually be a good clue as to where he actually jumped?  I mean, it must have come off due to his allowing the stairs to slam after leaping.  So it must have fallen a reasonable distance from where he leaped?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3202 on: November 23, 2021, 12:33:34 PM »
The placard didn't come from flight 305!
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3203 on: November 23, 2021, 03:01:51 PM »
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The placard didn't come from flight 305!

Ah, yes, DB Fan; then there's this.

I generally concur with Shutter on this subject. What concerns me more is that the placard that was found is now missing, as I understand the situation. What I last heard was that the FBI never took possession of the placard and it remained with the Cowlitz County Sherrif's Office, and currently they can't find it in their evidence locker. To me, that speaks to the limits of expertise in large scale LE departments and rural ones.

It is the same thing with the large shards found by the feds. Where are they now? More troubling is how they ended up buried in the sand? Could we have both intentional burial AND a dredge splatter at T-Bar? Whew......
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 03:04:36 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3204 on: November 23, 2021, 03:57:50 PM »
It's probably not missing...they don't have files that far back..if it wasn't really "evidence" then it was tossed..

I called them several years ago. they just don't have files that far back..anything of value is turned over vs keeping things..
« Last Edit: November 23, 2021, 03:59:20 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3205 on: November 23, 2021, 04:06:44 PM »
I understand, but still; it's DB Cooper for Gawd sakes. Even though it isn't, really.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3206 on: November 24, 2021, 03:44:41 PM »
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The placard didn't come from flight 305!

So why so many reports that it did!!  Its from a 727.  OK.  Ill take your word for it. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3207 on: November 24, 2021, 04:58:50 PM »
The placard has always been suspect. Remember, it could be from 305. But most likely not.

However, I believe Boeing reported that the placard from 305 was missing when they repaired it Nov. 26 at Boeing Field.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3208 on: November 24, 2021, 06:01:00 PM »
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The placard didn't come from flight 305!

So why so many reports that it did!!  Its from a 727.  OK.  Ill take your word for it.


The placard does go on a 727. only a certain amount had the emergency pull handle the placard states. it's separate from the normal stair controls found at the top of the stairs beyond the bulkhead door. a video of the interior of the stairs of flight 305 shows the emergency control panel is not on the plane.

I suspected something was wrong years ago when I realized the stairs wouldn't lock if the system was utilized. another video shortly after 305 landed shows the stairs down and in the fully locked position.

The FBI never openly dismissed the placard nor did they gain possession of the placard.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #3209 on: November 24, 2021, 06:58:57 PM »
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I suspected something was wrong years ago when I realized the stairs wouldn't lock if the system was utilized. another video shortly after 305 landed shows the stairs down and in the fully locked position.

The FBI never openly dismissed the placard nor did they gain possession of the placard.

I forget, but wasn't there later models of the 727 or maybe other aft stairs planes where they could lock the stairs?
Because they wanted to use the stairs as a tailstand when the plane was sitting on the ground unloaded and not tip up on it's tail (nose up)
that's really a thing
no time to look now, but tailstands are a thing.