Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.7%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.5%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
13 (21%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.6%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (37.1%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 787482 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6870 on: August 06, 2021, 11:33:30 PM »
I read where Bruce said it looked like the one from the show..
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6871 on: August 06, 2021, 11:34:46 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I read where Bruce said it looked like the one from the show..

Yes ... EU needs to publish photos and info ...

Guitar case hasp .... FJ says it could be from a guitar case ...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 11:43:23 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6872 on: August 06, 2021, 11:56:04 PM »
Lots of musical instrument cases had those type of latches...I've never seen them on a briefcase.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 11:57:34 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6873 on: August 06, 2021, 11:58:21 PM »
My drum cases from the late 60's had them. horns, violins etc.

I believe the square type version followed. still used today, I believe.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 11:59:33 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6874 on: August 07, 2021, 12:23:30 AM »
Looking into it further shows they did have them on briefcases...
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Thanked: 229 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6875 on: August 07, 2021, 04:07:38 AM »
How could the briefcase remain in that location for 50 years?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6876 on: August 07, 2021, 08:23:19 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
How could the briefcase remain in that location for 50 years?

All depends on how it was put there in the first place.
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1758
  • Thanked: 318 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6877 on: August 07, 2021, 11:52:30 AM »
My opinion is that the clasp and hinge are from a fishing tackle box.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812

Offline MarkBennett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Thanked: 26 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6878 on: August 08, 2021, 09:54:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
People are saying the brief case parts discovery was a plant.

Really? What people?

I was there and it happened on-camera precisely as it happened in real time.

This serves as one more piece of evidence that certain people are just prone to embrace and propagate conspiracy theories at the expense of truth.

That's interesting, Eric.  I'm not disagreeing that the two items were found in the water, but I expected others searched the water, logged the locations and then Josh Gates went back in and re-enacted the find for the camera.  Just a way to condense a several hour search into a good clip for the show.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6879 on: August 09, 2021, 03:01:36 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
People are saying the brief case parts discovery was a plant.

Really? What people?

I was there and it happened on-camera precisely as it happened in real time.

This serves as one more piece of evidence that certain people are just prone to embrace and propagate conspiracy theories at the expense of truth.

That's interesting, Eric.  I'm not disagreeing that the two items were found in the water, but I expected others searched the water, logged the locations and then Josh Gates went back in and re-enacted the find for the camera.  Just a way to condense a several hour search into a good clip for the show.

This is all interesting. I called Dorwin last week and we discussed the excavation again, for the one millionth time. See Bruce Smith video on the money find/theories...

Dorwin stated again: 'we left maybe hundreds of fragments of money on the beach ... we just couldnt keep everything and there was no point to trying to save it all. The goals of the excavation (we felt) had been achieved. At the time I think there were some 90 agents operating out of the Seattle office and maybe 60 or so out of our Portland office. Since the dig at Tina Bar hadn't produced anything new everyone's efforts went back to processing leads and suspects ... John Powelson called and I talked to him. John wanted to bring people to Tina Bar and do a larger search and he agreed he would pass along any developments to our office first. That was agreeable to Himmelsbach so that is the arrangement we made. Over the next several years all kinds of people searched not only Tina Bar but the whole area and even where dredging spoils had been placed across the river on the Oregon side. Those searches by various people went on for years. Those searchs extended clear down to the wing dams north of Tina Bar and over to the road by the Fazios. John kept a log of these searches and documented everything he could over the years. Then Tosaw got started (1983) and we know his story. Most of us felt the money probably came up on Tina Bar because of the dredging work there. There is just no way Cooper landed at Tina Bar (laughs) and even less reason to believe he buried his Cooper money there. Some combination of natural and human events explains the money at Tina Bar, in my view. '
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 03:14:43 AM by georger »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Thanked: 195 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6880 on: August 09, 2021, 12:11:02 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
People are saying the brief case parts discovery was a plant.

Really? What people?

I was there and it happened on-camera precisely as it happened in real time.

This serves as one more piece of evidence that certain people are just prone to embrace and propagate conspiracy theories at the expense of truth.

That's interesting, Eric.  I'm not disagreeing that the two items were found in the water, but I expected others searched the water, logged the locations and then Josh Gates went back in and re-enacted the find for the camera.  Just a way to condense a several hour search into a good clip for the show.

This is all interesting. I called Dorwin last week and we discussed the excavation again, for the one millionth time. See Bruce Smith video on the money find/theories...

Dorwin stated again: 'we left maybe hundreds of fragments of money on the beach ... we just couldnt keep everything and there was no point to trying to save it all. The goals of the excavation (we felt) had been achieved. At the time I think there were some 90 agents operating out of the Seattle office and maybe 60 or so out of our Portland office. Since the dig at Tina Bar hadn't produced anything new everyone's efforts went back to processing leads and suspects ... John Powelson called and I talked to him. John wanted to bring people to Tina Bar and do a larger search and he agreed he would pass along any developments to our office first. That was agreeable to Himmelsbach so that is the arrangement we made. Over the next several years all kinds of people searched not only Tina Bar but the whole area and even where dredging spoils had been placed across the river on the Oregon side. Those searches by various people went on for years. Those searchs extended clear down to the wing dams north of Tina Bar and over to the road by the Fazios. John kept a log of these searches and documented everything he could over the years. Then Tosaw got started (1983) and we know his story. Most of us felt the money probably came up on Tina Bar because of the dredging work there. There is just no way Cooper landed at Tina Bar (laughs) and even less reason to believe he buried his Cooper money there. Some combination of natural and human events explains the money at Tina Bar, in my view. '

While I do appreciate Dorwin's attempt at levity (laughs), why don't you ask him why he didn't bother talking to the FAA air traffic controllers, among other people.  They could have provided some information as to how the money ended up at Tena Bar.  And then the FBI would not have had to redact the Seattle ATC radio transcripts for whatever reason.  And those unredacted transcripts do exist unless they were seized from the FAA and destroyed.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6881 on: August 09, 2021, 02:25:25 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
People are saying the brief case parts discovery was a plant.

Really? What people?

I was there and it happened on-camera precisely as it happened in real time.

This serves as one more piece of evidence that certain people are just prone to embrace and propagate conspiracy theories at the expense of truth.

That's interesting, Eric.  I'm not disagreeing that the two items were found in the water, but I expected others searched the water, logged the locations and then Josh Gates went back in and re-enacted the find for the camera.  Just a way to condense a several hour search into a good clip for the show.

This is all interesting. I called Dorwin last week and we discussed the excavation again, for the one millionth time. See Bruce Smith video on the money find/theories...

Dorwin stated again: 'we left maybe hundreds of fragments of money on the beach ... we just couldnt keep everything and there was no point to trying to save it all. The goals of the excavation (we felt) had been achieved. At the time I think there were some 90 agents operating out of the Seattle office and maybe 60 or so out of our Portland office. Since the dig at Tina Bar hadn't produced anything new everyone's efforts went back to processing leads and suspects ... John Powelson called and I talked to him. John wanted to bring people to Tina Bar and do a larger search and he agreed he would pass along any developments to our office first. That was agreeable to Himmelsbach so that is the arrangement we made. Over the next several years all kinds of people searched not only Tina Bar but the whole area and even where dredging spoils had been placed across the river on the Oregon side. Those searches by various people went on for years. Those searchs extended clear down to the wing dams north of Tina Bar and over to the road by the Fazios. John kept a log of these searches and documented everything he could over the years. Then Tosaw got started (1983) and we know his story. Most of us felt the money probably came up on Tina Bar because of the dredging work there. There is just no way Cooper landed at Tina Bar (laughs) and even less reason to believe he buried his Cooper money there. Some combination of natural and human events explains the money at Tina Bar, in my view. '

While I do appreciate Dorwin's attempt at levity (laughs), why don't you ask him why he didn't bother talking to the FAA air traffic controllers, among other people.  They could have provided some information as to how the money ended up at Tena Bar.  And then the FBI would not have had to redact the Seattle ATC radio transcripts for whatever reason.  And those unredacted transcripts do exist unless they were seized from the FAA and destroyed.

... because I dont have your agenda and bad manners. I am not a bully. The Ayatollah of Redactions . . .
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 02:47:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
  • Thanked: 229 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6882 on: August 09, 2021, 02:38:41 PM »
Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1695
  • Thanked: 195 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6883 on: August 09, 2021, 03:43:37 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.         
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6884 on: August 09, 2021, 03:45:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Here we go again . . .

Yes, R99 did an FOIA and got nowhere. Several years consumed. WSHM's role in all of this remains obscure, undefined, obliterated, links taken down almost as fast as links were put up!

WSHM's original link to its claim about Redactions was this:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    Somebody or some panel at WSHM examined the Transcript and concluded there were "19 redactions". But, no sooner was this link put up it was taken down for some unknowable reason. A REDACTION of the claims of redactions was, REDACTED for soon reason! Presumably there was a pdf at the end of the WSHM link, but nobody bothered to SAVE the pdf to have it posted ANYWHERE - it vanished along with the unredacted Transcript! By Jan 2 2014  Robert R99 is posting about it at Dropzone.
R99 filed his FOIA several times .... that went nowhere.

None of this has prevented R99 from continually harping about REDACTIONS ever since.  Evidently WSHM took down its original transcript analysis where it concluded 19 redactions were made, so there is no way to evaluate anything let alone see WSHM's original work.   

Posts about this at DZ included:

  Robert99  Jan 2 2014
***In case you'd like to take a break from personal bickering and attacks and instead look at some evidence.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Happy New Year to all.

377

RobertMBlevins
Link no longer works!  Unfortunately, the above information has been unavailable for several years. There is nothing new here.

Specifically, the redacted transcript for the period starting at 7:37PM PST, November 24, 1971, as the airliner took off from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Center at about 9:45PM PST is old news. There are 19 redactions in this transcript.

What we need are the un-redacted transcript with those 19 redactions included in it.

Robert99

I see an FOIA request in your future. One where you ask for the complete doc without redactions.


Robert99
#57325
February 16, 2015

Jo,

You can deny it all you want, but the FBI was given a full transcript of the Seattle ATC Center's communications with the airliner and the FBI made 19 redactions in that transcript. Those redacted areas are shown in the Seattle transcripts that the FBI released.

In addition, WSHM personnel have stated that there are also redactions in the communications that were done over the ARINC radio and teletype systems.

You are the one who is lying through your teeth here. And just exactly what are your qualifications again? Assuming, of course, that you have any.

Robert99


Its a little difficult to evaluate something THAT DOES NOT EXIST! All appeals to WSHM to put its work back up so the world can see it have gone unanswered, as if it never existed at all.

R99 continues to beat the redactions drum .... with no way to see anything! Its an enigma wrapped inside a riddle covered over with mud ...

 :chr2: