Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1375177 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6885 on: August 09, 2021, 03:47:46 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.       

What agenda do I have?  :rofl:

Damned right I have an agenda! I want to see the WSHM redactions analysis you claim exists! Which WSHM took down! Do you have a copy? Send a copy to Shutter to put in the vault so the whole world can see it!

THATS MY AGENDA! 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 03:50:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6886 on: August 09, 2021, 03:50:22 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Here we go again . . .

Yes, R99 did an FOIA and got nowhere. Several years consumed. WSHM's role in all of this remains obscure, undefined, obliterated, links taken down almost as fast as links were put up!

WSHM's original link to its claim about Redactions was this:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    Somebody or some panel at WSHM examined the Transcript and concluded there were "19 redactions". But, no sooner was this link put up it was taken down for some unknowable reason. A REDACTION of the claims of redactions was, REDACTED for soon reason! Presumably there was a pdf at the end of the WSHM link, but nobody bothered to SAVE the pdf to have it posted ANYWHERE - it vanished along with the unredacted Transcript! By Jan 2 2014  Robert R99 is posting about it at Dropzone.
R99 filed his FOIA several times .... that went nowhere.

None of this has prevented R99 from continually harping about REDACTIONS ever since.  Evidently WSHM took down its original transcript analysis where it concluded 19 redactions were made, so there is no way to evaluate anything let alone see WSHM's original work.   

Posts about this at DZ included:

  Robert99  Jan 2 2014
***In case you'd like to take a break from personal bickering and attacks and instead look at some evidence.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Happy New Year to all.

377

RobertMBlevins
Link no longer works!  Unfortunately, the above information has been unavailable for several years. There is nothing new here.

Specifically, the redacted transcript for the period starting at 7:37PM PST, November 24, 1971, as the airliner took off from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Center at about 9:45PM PST is old news. There are 19 redactions in this transcript.

What we need are the un-redacted transcript with those 19 redactions included in it.

Robert99

I see an FOIA request in your future. One where you ask for the complete doc without redactions.


Robert99
#57325
February 16, 2015

Jo,

You can deny it all you want, but the FBI was given a full transcript of the Seattle ATC Center's communications with the airliner and the FBI made 19 redactions in that transcript. Those redacted areas are shown in the Seattle transcripts that the FBI released.

In addition, WSHM personnel have stated that there are also redactions in the communications that were done over the ARINC radio and teletype systems.

You are the one who is lying through your teeth here. And just exactly what are your qualifications again? Assuming, of course, that you have any.

Robert99


Its a little difficult to evaluate something THAT DOES NOT EXIST! All appeals to WSHM to put its work back up so the world can see it have gone unanswered, as if it never existed at all.

R99 continues to beat the redactions drum .... with no way to see anything! Its an enigma wrapped inside a riddle covered over with mud ...

 :chr2:

   

Georger's claim that the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts don't exist is totally false.  Those transcripts without the 19 redactions do exist and the FBI is the one that is not releasing them.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6887 on: August 09, 2021, 03:53:23 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Here we go again . . .

Yes, R99 did an FOIA and got nowhere. Several years consumed. WSHM's role in all of this remains obscure, undefined, obliterated, links taken down almost as fast as links were put up!

WSHM's original link to its claim about Redactions was this:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    Somebody or some panel at WSHM examined the Transcript and concluded there were "19 redactions". But, no sooner was this link put up it was taken down for some unknowable reason. A REDACTION of the claims of redactions was, REDACTED for soon reason! Presumably there was a pdf at the end of the WSHM link, but nobody bothered to SAVE the pdf to have it posted ANYWHERE - it vanished along with the unredacted Transcript! By Jan 2 2014  Robert R99 is posting about it at Dropzone.
R99 filed his FOIA several times .... that went nowhere.

None of this has prevented R99 from continually harping about REDACTIONS ever since.  Evidently WSHM took down its original transcript analysis where it concluded 19 redactions were made, so there is no way to evaluate anything let alone see WSHM's original work.   

Posts about this at DZ included:

  Robert99  Jan 2 2014
***In case you'd like to take a break from personal bickering and attacks and instead look at some evidence.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Happy New Year to all.

377

RobertMBlevins
Link no longer works!  Unfortunately, the above information has been unavailable for several years. There is nothing new here.

Specifically, the redacted transcript for the period starting at 7:37PM PST, November 24, 1971, as the airliner took off from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Center at about 9:45PM PST is old news. There are 19 redactions in this transcript.

What we need are the un-redacted transcript with those 19 redactions included in it.

Robert99

I see an FOIA request in your future. One where you ask for the complete doc without redactions.


Robert99
#57325
February 16, 2015

Jo,

You can deny it all you want, but the FBI was given a full transcript of the Seattle ATC Center's communications with the airliner and the FBI made 19 redactions in that transcript. Those redacted areas are shown in the Seattle transcripts that the FBI released.

In addition, WSHM personnel have stated that there are also redactions in the communications that were done over the ARINC radio and teletype systems.

You are the one who is lying through your teeth here. And just exactly what are your qualifications again? Assuming, of course, that you have any.

Robert99


Its a little difficult to evaluate something THAT DOES NOT EXIST! All appeals to WSHM to put its work back up so the world can see it have gone unanswered, as if it never existed at all.

R99 continues to beat the redactions drum .... with no way to see anything! Its an enigma wrapped inside a riddle covered over with mud ...

 :chr2:

   

Georger's claim that the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts don't exist is totally false.  Those transcripts without the 19 redactions do exist and the FBI is the one that is not releasing them.

Post or send to Shutter WSHM'S original redactions work! ITS SIMPLE. Any claim of redactions starts with that work WSHM did and then took down!

Stop being STUPID!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 03:55:45 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6888 on: August 09, 2021, 03:56:08 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.       

What agenda do I have?  :rofl:

Damned right I have an agenda! I want to see the WSHM redactions analysis you claim exists! Which WSHM took down! Do you have a copy? Send a copy to Shutter to put in the vault so the whole world can see it!

THATS MY AGENDA!

Since I didn't generate the WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts, I am not at liberty to release it.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6889 on: August 09, 2021, 03:58:23 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.       

What agenda do I have?  :rofl:

Damned right I have an agenda! I want to see the WSHM redactions analysis you claim exists! Which WSHM took down! Do you have a copy? Send a copy to Shutter to put in the vault so the whole world can see it!

THATS MY AGENDA!

Since I didn't generate the WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts, I am not at liberty to release it.

FINALLY! THERE IT IS! MORE OF YOUR BULLSHIT.

You are now "not at liberty" to disclose what you claim!

THERE IT IS! WHAT A PILE OF R99 CRAPPOLA. This is actually pretty funny. Good luck in ninny-nanny-noo-noo land.   

So, the world now needs to file an FOIA against you and WSHM in order to see what WSHM did years ago ? !   :nono:
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 04:01:58 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6890 on: August 09, 2021, 04:01:48 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Here we go again . . .

Yes, R99 did an FOIA and got nowhere. Several years consumed. WSHM's role in all of this remains obscure, undefined, obliterated, links taken down almost as fast as links were put up!

WSHM's original link to its claim about Redactions was this:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    Somebody or some panel at WSHM examined the Transcript and concluded there were "19 redactions". But, no sooner was this link put up it was taken down for some unknowable reason. A REDACTION of the claims of redactions was, REDACTED for soon reason! Presumably there was a pdf at the end of the WSHM link, but nobody bothered to SAVE the pdf to have it posted ANYWHERE - it vanished along with the unredacted Transcript! By Jan 2 2014  Robert R99 is posting about it at Dropzone.
R99 filed his FOIA several times .... that went nowhere.

None of this has prevented R99 from continually harping about REDACTIONS ever since.  Evidently WSHM took down its original transcript analysis where it concluded 19 redactions were made, so there is no way to evaluate anything let alone see WSHM's original work.   

Posts about this at DZ included:

  Robert99  Jan 2 2014
***In case you'd like to take a break from personal bickering and attacks and instead look at some evidence.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Happy New Year to all.

377

RobertMBlevins
Link no longer works!  Unfortunately, the above information has been unavailable for several years. There is nothing new here.

Specifically, the redacted transcript for the period starting at 7:37PM PST, November 24, 1971, as the airliner took off from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Center at about 9:45PM PST is old news. There are 19 redactions in this transcript.

What we need are the un-redacted transcript with those 19 redactions included in it.

Robert99

I see an FOIA request in your future. One where you ask for the complete doc without redactions.


Robert99
#57325
February 16, 2015

Jo,

You can deny it all you want, but the FBI was given a full transcript of the Seattle ATC Center's communications with the airliner and the FBI made 19 redactions in that transcript. Those redacted areas are shown in the Seattle transcripts that the FBI released.

In addition, WSHM personnel have stated that there are also redactions in the communications that were done over the ARINC radio and teletype systems.

You are the one who is lying through your teeth here. And just exactly what are your qualifications again? Assuming, of course, that you have any.

Robert99


Its a little difficult to evaluate something THAT DOES NOT EXIST! All appeals to WSHM to put its work back up so the world can see it have gone unanswered, as if it never existed at all.

R99 continues to beat the redactions drum .... with no way to see anything! Its an enigma wrapped inside a riddle covered over with mud ...

 :chr2:

   

Georger's claim that the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts don't exist is totally false.  Those transcripts without the 19 redactions do exist and the FBI is the one that is not releasing them.

Post or send to Shutter WSHM'S original redactions work! ITS SIMPLE. Any claim of redactions starts with that work WSHM did and then took down!

Stop being STUPID!


Pointing out the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts DID NOT start with WSHM.  It started with me.  The WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts was done when they had the remaining transcripts on loan from George Harrison. 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6891 on: August 09, 2021, 04:03:03 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Here we go again . . .

Yes, R99 did an FOIA and got nowhere. Several years consumed. WSHM's role in all of this remains obscure, undefined, obliterated, links taken down almost as fast as links were put up!

WSHM's original link to its claim about Redactions was this:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login    Somebody or some panel at WSHM examined the Transcript and concluded there were "19 redactions". But, no sooner was this link put up it was taken down for some unknowable reason. A REDACTION of the claims of redactions was, REDACTED for soon reason! Presumably there was a pdf at the end of the WSHM link, but nobody bothered to SAVE the pdf to have it posted ANYWHERE - it vanished along with the unredacted Transcript! By Jan 2 2014  Robert R99 is posting about it at Dropzone.
R99 filed his FOIA several times .... that went nowhere.

None of this has prevented R99 from continually harping about REDACTIONS ever since.  Evidently WSHM took down its original transcript analysis where it concluded 19 redactions were made, so there is no way to evaluate anything let alone see WSHM's original work.   

Posts about this at DZ included:

  Robert99  Jan 2 2014
***In case you'd like to take a break from personal bickering and attacks and instead look at some evidence.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Happy New Year to all.

377

RobertMBlevins
Link no longer works!  Unfortunately, the above information has been unavailable for several years. There is nothing new here.

Specifically, the redacted transcript for the period starting at 7:37PM PST, November 24, 1971, as the airliner took off from Seattle until it was handed off to the Oakland Center at about 9:45PM PST is old news. There are 19 redactions in this transcript.

What we need are the un-redacted transcript with those 19 redactions included in it.

Robert99

I see an FOIA request in your future. One where you ask for the complete doc without redactions.


Robert99
#57325
February 16, 2015

Jo,

You can deny it all you want, but the FBI was given a full transcript of the Seattle ATC Center's communications with the airliner and the FBI made 19 redactions in that transcript. Those redacted areas are shown in the Seattle transcripts that the FBI released.

In addition, WSHM personnel have stated that there are also redactions in the communications that were done over the ARINC radio and teletype systems.

You are the one who is lying through your teeth here. And just exactly what are your qualifications again? Assuming, of course, that you have any.

Robert99


Its a little difficult to evaluate something THAT DOES NOT EXIST! All appeals to WSHM to put its work back up so the world can see it have gone unanswered, as if it never existed at all.

R99 continues to beat the redactions drum .... with no way to see anything! Its an enigma wrapped inside a riddle covered over with mud ...

 :chr2:

   

Georger's claim that the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts don't exist is totally false.  Those transcripts without the 19 redactions do exist and the FBI is the one that is not releasing them.

Post or send to Shutter WSHM'S original redactions work! ITS SIMPLE. Any claim of redactions starts with that work WSHM did and then took down!

Stop being STUPID!


Pointing out the 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts DID NOT start with WSHM.  It started with me.  The WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts was done when they had the remaining transcripts on loan from George Harrison.

I see. So: anhuy rarah forifin moo noo gatfar wanu dondar in the dinder ?  More double-talk and R99-speak.

Igpay onyah igpay gonda dinday ?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 04:04:06 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6892 on: August 09, 2021, 04:04:03 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.       

What agenda do I have?  :rofl:

Damned right I have an agenda! I want to see the WSHM redactions analysis you claim exists! Which WSHM took down! Do you have a copy? Send a copy to Shutter to put in the vault so the whole world can see it!

THATS MY AGENDA!

Since I didn't generate the WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts, I am not at liberty to release it.

FINALLY! THERE IT IS! MORE OF YOUR BULLSHIT.

You are now "not at liberty" to disclose what you claim!

THERE IT IS! WHAT A PILE OF R99 CRAPPOLA. This is actually pretty funny. Good luck in ninny-nanny-noo-noo land.   

So, the world now needs to file an FOIA against you and WSHM in order to see what WSHM did years ago ? !   :nono:

This is just more bullshit from Georger.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6893 on: August 09, 2021, 04:06:04 PM »
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Bob,
Have you or anyone else attempted to get the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts through FOIA?

Chaucer, you really haven't done your homework.  As anyone who has been around this site for a while knows, I made a total of three FOIA requests in an attempt to get the unredacted transcripts.

The first FOIA request was initiated through the FAA regional office in Redmond, WA which would be the office that originally received the transcripts.  The FAA is mandated to retain, just about forever, the records of aircraft accidents and incidents.  For instance, I have seen the FAA records of fatal accidents which happened years ago involving people I personally knew.

The FAA Redmond office replied, by register mail no less, with a full page of contact information for the FBI FOIA office in Virginia.  The run-around started with the FBI's FOIA office and continued with the DOJ as I have described in detail previously and will not repeat here.  This was an attempt to close the matter.

So I got in touch with my US Congresswoman and her office, operating through the FBI's congressional liaison office, reopened the matter with the FBI.  The FAA headquarters FOIA office also got involved as a result of the congressional intervention.  The end result was that two pages, a short paragraph per page, related to the Cooper hijacking were released and they are posted here on Shutter's site.

But the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts were not released.  One of the reasons given was privacy concerns.  But that shouldn't be a factor since what was requested was broadcast over air traffic control radio frequencies and heard by any number of people in the Pacific Northwest who were in other aircraft or on the ground.  Everything requested was in the public domain.  It should be remembered that the communications between NWA and the airliner were transmitted over the ARINC radio link that was set up (and recorded in the ARINC teletype transcripts, some of which are also missing) and not over the air traffic control frequencies.

No claims of privacy or redactions were made for the Oakland ATC radio transcripts.  The Oakland transcripts are textbook examples of air traffic control communications in the 1971 time frame.  So you can draw your own conclusions about why the Seattle ATC transcripts have been redacted to the point that they are worthless in determining the airliner's flight path in the Portland/Vancouver area.

The nonsense from Georger is just misinformation.  He has his own agenda to pursue just as RBM and Jo Weber had theirs.       

What agenda do I have?  :rofl:

Damned right I have an agenda! I want to see the WSHM redactions analysis you claim exists! Which WSHM took down! Do you have a copy? Send a copy to Shutter to put in the vault so the whole world can see it!

THATS MY AGENDA!

Since I didn't generate the WSHM analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts, I am not at liberty to release it.

FINALLY! THERE IT IS! MORE OF YOUR BULLSHIT.

You are now "not at liberty" to disclose what you claim!

THERE IT IS! WHAT A PILE OF R99 CRAPPOLA. This is actually pretty funny. Good luck in ninny-nanny-noo-noo land.   

So, the world now needs to file an FOIA against you and WSHM in order to see what WSHM did years ago ? !   :nono:

This is just more bullshit from Georger.

Thats right blame me ... thats all the scammer can do. Robert come down to earth. Put your big boy pants on for a change! 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6894 on: August 09, 2021, 04:09:00 PM »
Chaucer you have your answer you were seeking. And a real time demonstration of how this works! How it has always worked with R99. And WSHM.

We cant even get the documents R99 claims exist, he has but wont share because "I am not at liberty to share'.  Its ludicrous and ridiculous.

R99 wants people to believe him - he just is not a liberty to give people the tools TO BELIEVE HIM!

Who knows - he may even be right. We just will never know.  8)

 :congrats: :rofl: 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 04:10:51 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6895 on: August 09, 2021, 04:17:24 PM »
It turns out DB Cooper forum secrecy and WSHM secrecy are even deeper than FBI secrecy ! And forum investigator R99 is not AT LIBERTY to disclose what he says would prove his claims!

Now we need FOIA's against Cooper forum users and WSHM in addition to FOIA's against the FBI!

It's hilarious.  :rofl:     

Maybe Josh Gates can get a copy of the WSHM report and share it with Sherry who will share it with Mary behind R99 and EU's back, who will share it with Carr who will share it with the Seattle PI who will publish it for .... $99.99 before the end of the world ?

Why did WSHM ever put a link up to the work, in the first place? Was that some major Administrative fuck up?     
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 04:24:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6896 on: August 09, 2021, 05:17:45 PM »
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It turns out DB Cooper forum secrecy and WSHM secrecy are even deeper than FBI secrecy ! And forum investigator R99 is not AT LIBERTY to disclose what he says would prove his claims!

Now we need FOIA's against Cooper forum users and WSHM in addition to FOIA's against the FBI!

It's hilarious.  :rofl:     

Maybe Josh Gates can get a copy of the WSHM report and share it with Sherry who will share it with Mary behind R99 and EU's back, who will share it with Carr who will share it with the Seattle PI who will publish it for .... $99.99 before the end of the world ?

Why did WSHM ever put a link up to the work, in the first place? Was that some major Administrative fuck up?     

Georger, get an emergency appointment with your shrink.  You need to get your medications adjusted.
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6897 on: August 09, 2021, 06:01:05 PM »
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           As per some earlier posts...Although sunken debris rolling along the bottom of the river ends up on the Oregon side of the river, that is not necessarily true of debris floating on the surface. At least according to what Hager told me that he had observed. I believe the tides or maybe shipping traffic wake or maybe a combination of factors would sometimes cause surface debris to end up on the Tena Bar side of the river. He also stated that back in those days there was a lot of debris coming thru Tena Bar. Hager said that the debris usually did not stay there very long.
The notion that debris, beginning on the north bank of the river between the I-5 and I-205 bridges, could not reach Tena Bar is repeated again and again without any evidence. Meanwhile, here is a map of a marine debris along that area of the river:

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The group that collects this data is the Lower Columbia Estuary Partnership. Here's their phone number and email:

503-226-1565
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I encourage anyone to reach out to them and ask them about debris on Tena Bar.

The link mentioned above lists such things as truck tires and abandoned boats being found in the Tena Bar area.  There used to be a boat anchorage downstream (to the north) of Tena Bar.  I doubt very much that any of the debris listed in that link got there by natural means.  The information in this link doesn't prove anything.

Georger has previously posted a link which he claimed was relevant to the Tena Bar debris.  But that link doesn't even mention debris.

If Chaucer and Georger want to continue pushing their claims that Columbia River debris from the area of the Portland International Airport is going to end up at Tena Bar by natural means then it would be nice if they could produce a single piece of believable evidence to support their claims.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6898 on: August 09, 2021, 08:00:52 PM »
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Bruce, the answer to your question about Boeing Flight Services has already been answered many times by the FBI and Hayden.  NWA personnel at SEATAC (probably Al Lee, NWA Chief Pilot at SEATAC) got in touch with Boeing Flight Services for assistance in locating parachutes.  They in turn got in touch with Hayden and he sent them his two backpacks by taxi.  Boeing Flight Services then got them to the NWA people at SEATAC by one means or another.


Robert, your statements are grossly in error, and your speculations on who "probably" contact whom is not helpful.

1. Where in the documents does Hayden say he was contacted by Boeing Flight Services? I have never seen anything that suggests that occurrence specifically.

2. Rather, Hayden told me that he was contacted by Barry Halstad of Pacific Aviation and George Harrison, the Chief of Flight ops for Northwest Orient. Where has Hayden said anything different, and to whom did he say it?

3. The FBI's document from the wee hours of 11. 25. 71, (164 - 81 - 83), which is the first document describing the back chutes, cites Boeing Flight Services as participating in the procurement of the parachutes, but has a hand-written correction in the upper-righthand corner that says the listed phone number is actually for Pacific Aviation and not BFS. Nevertheless, BFS continues to be cited in FBI documents and Norjack investigators such as you. The question I ask is why? What did BFS do and who did it?

4. Al Lee, again, was the Chief of Ground Ops for Northwest Orient at Sea-Tac. Why do you continue to describe him as Chief of Flight Operations?

First, let me correct your own misinformation here.  George Harrison was the NWA Station Chief at SEATAC.  That means he was the senior NWA management official at SEATAC.  I suggest that you take a look at the George Harrison papers which are online on this site.

Second, Al Lee was the Chief Pilot for NWA in Seattle.  On page 236, SE 164-81, the FBI refers to Al Lee as "Director of Flying, Western Region, NWA".  On page 28 of Himmelsbachs book, Al Lee is described as "Seattle Operations Manager".  On page 11 of Tosaw's book, Al Lee is described as "Chief Pilot" at Seattle.  Al Lee appears to be the only NWA contact that the flight crew of 305 had during the time they were on the ground at SEATAC.

Third, while I can't find the pictures of the FBI drop tests personnel at this moment, if my memory is correct then Al Lee was the 727 pilot on those tests and Sonderland was the co-pilot.

Fourth, I don't remember anyone ever being described as "Chief of Ground Operations" for NWA at SEATAC.

Finally, we have discussed the matter of the two backpack parachutes just recently and, again, I refer you to pages 96 and 97 of the second edition of your own book.  My copy of that book was printed in San Bernardino, CA on March 30, 2016.

Further to the above, if Shutter is successful in getting a rigger to open the WSHM parachute, please ask the rigger to proofread anything that you write before you publish it.  This should prevent any further confusion about that parachute.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6899 on: August 09, 2021, 08:08:46 PM »
I was unaware of those references about Al Lee. I'll check them out. Thank you.