Author Topic: The Cooper Vortex Podcast  (Read 50041 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #330 on: November 17, 2021, 03:51:13 AM »
Hmmmm.... I thought Edwards' exact notation was 68.7% for landing IN the Columbia. I took some literary license and figured I could round it up to 70% in case DBC landed in wet sand or something not technically Columbia River water.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #331 on: November 17, 2021, 10:45:16 AM »
How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?
 
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #332 on: November 17, 2021, 02:24:46 PM »
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How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?

I'm curious of this too Martin.  I just grabbed your book to look at Harold Anderson's statement.  When we look at time, it can get confusing, simply because no one knows exactly what time something happened.  Normally that is not a big deal.  Like saying, "he was five minutes late." Who is ever exactly five minutes late?  It could be 4 minutes, it could be 6, so and so forth.

However, Anderson does say he felt the bumps etc. before they were in Portland proper. He says they were definitely in the suburbs.  I've interpreted that as being north of PDX.  I guess one could technically say that over the river is not Portland, but I'm seeing this as they had not gotten to the river yet. So, regardless of if it was 8:10 or 8:12, Cooper was not near the river and would really have had to had some drift in order to get in the river.

This of course hinges on the belief that the activity (bumps/oscillations) were him jumping or waiting on the edge of the stairs ready to jump.  For those who say he jumped near Reno or somewhere else, I would prefer to see documentation that something happened.  The pilots seem to believe they knew when something was going on in their plane, regardless of if the sled test did not emulate it perfectly.

So, if someone says he jumped at 8:10 and that puts him near Ariel, and someone says 8:12 near Battle Ground, and someone says 8:13 near Vancouver, I guess I could argue any of those, but I find it difficult to argue that he jumped over the river. A river landing sounds cool, but it is a hard target to hit given all the land around it.
 

Offline georger

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #333 on: November 17, 2021, 03:20:52 PM »
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How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?

I'm curious of this too Martin.  I just grabbed your book to look at Harold Anderson's statement.  When we look at time, it can get confusing, simply because no one knows exactly what time something happened.  Normally that is not a big deal.  Like saying, "he was five minutes late." Who is ever exactly five minutes late?  It could be 4 minutes, it could be 6, so and so forth.

However, Anderson does say he felt the bumps etc. before they were in Portland proper. He says they were definitely in the suburbs.  I've interpreted that as being north of PDX.  I guess one could technically say that over the river is not Portland, but I'm seeing this as they had not gotten to the river yet. So, regardless of if it was 8:10 or 8:12, Cooper was not near the river and would really have had to had some drift in order to get in the river.

This of course hinges on the belief that the activity (bumps/oscillations) were him jumping or waiting on the edge of the stairs ready to jump.  For those who say he jumped near Reno or somewhere else, I would prefer to see documentation that something happened.  The pilots seem to believe they knew when something was going on in their plane, regardless of if the sled test did not emulate it perfectly.

So, if someone says he jumped at 8:10 and that puts him near Ariel, and someone says 8:12 near Battle Ground, and someone says 8:13 near Vancouver, I guess I could argue any of those, but I find it difficult to argue that he jumped over the river. A river landing sounds cool, but it is a hard target to hit given all the land around it.

Tosaw argued (published and told everyone) that Cooper landed IN THE RIVER. His argument never cited any flight path facts. His argument was THAT THE MONEY AT TINA BAR required a river landing.

If a horse hair had been found with the money, then someone would require Cooper was riding a horse when he parachuted into the river from 305! We would then be looking for where on the airplane Cooper had a horse stored, and who brought the horse aboard 305 when!   
 
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Offline northern flight path

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #334 on: November 17, 2021, 03:24:13 PM »
If you say mucklowmucklowmucklowmucklowmucklow it kind of sounds like a horse walking.

that's your first clue....
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #335 on: November 17, 2021, 03:37:23 PM »
My understanding is that the author’s premise is that the oscillations and the pressure bump are two distinct yet related events and that the bump did not occur simultaneously with the oscillations but later on as the plane was closer to the river.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #336 on: November 17, 2021, 04:06:02 PM »
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How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?

My understanding of Edwards' research is that he figures the oscillations preceded the pressure bump because they were a reflection of Cooper walking down the stairs. He assesses that the FBI and NWO linked the oscillations and bump as one event - at 8:11 - and calculated that they happened over Highland. The search strategies and on the ground and air proceeded from there.

However, Edwards assesses that the bump actually occurred at 8:13, and that 305 had just crossed the Columbia.

Edwards spends many pages backing these assessments and dives very deeply into the 302s and WSHM archival material. He has even determined that six different individuals were recording times and locations on the transcripts, and determined that Individual "F" is the most accurate and thus, he uses his calculations.

I think you're gonna love Edwards' book. You may disagree with his conclusions, but his leg work is outstanding. There is no one who has a more complete presentation of the documentation from Norjak. Not me, nor GG - not by a long shot.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 04:07:32 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #337 on: November 17, 2021, 05:06:14 PM »
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How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?

My understanding of Edwards' research is that he figures the oscillations preceded the pressure bump because they were a reflection of Cooper walking down the stairs. He assesses that the FBI and NWO linked the oscillations and bump as one event - at 8:11 - and calculated that they happened over Highland. The search strategies and on the ground and air proceeded from there.

However, Edwards assesses that the bump actually occurred at 8:13, and that 305 had just crossed the Columbia.

Edwards spends many pages backing these assessments and dives very deeply into the 302s and WSHM archival material. He has even determined that six different individuals were recording times and locations on the transcripts, and determined that Individual "F" is the most accurate and thus, he uses his calculations.

I think you're gonna love Edwards' book. You may disagree with his conclusions, but his leg work is outstanding. There is no one who has a more complete presentation of the documentation from Norjak. Not me, nor GG - not by a long shot.

Bruce, congratulations on your overcoming the pain of not being referenced or mentioned in Dr. Edwards's book (according to your own statement).  Your last sentence above indicates that you are a true gentleman.

You must have some good contacts in the US Post Office to get your complimentary copy so early.  According to the USPS tracking, my copy was still in Atglen, PA yesterday afternoon.  And I eagerly look forward to getting it.
 
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #338 on: November 17, 2021, 05:51:19 PM »
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How does Edwards put the plane over Portland at 8:13? This goes against the FBI map, however he's using the FBI map for location? What's his reasoning?

My understanding of Edwards' research is that he figures the oscillations preceded the pressure bump because they were a reflection of Cooper walking down the stairs. He assesses that the FBI and NWO linked the oscillations and bump as one event - at 8:11 - and calculated that they happened over Highland. The search strategies and on the ground and air proceeded from there.

However, Edwards assesses that the bump actually occurred at 8:13, and that 305 had just crossed the Columbia.

Edwards spends many pages backing these assessments and dives very deeply into the 302s and WSHM archival material. He has even determined that six different individuals were recording times and locations on the transcripts, and determined that Individual "F" is the most accurate and thus, he uses his calculations.

I think you're gonna love Edwards' book. You may disagree with his conclusions, but his leg work is outstanding. There is no one who has a more complete presentation of the documentation from Norjak. Not me, nor GG - not by a long shot.

Again, he is using the FBI flight path map locations but completely different time stamps, and you can't even give me a hint?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #339 on: November 17, 2021, 06:02:42 PM »
Look, Marty, I may have read the book but that doesn't mean I understood or retained much of the details. Remember, I was medicated much of the time due to minutiae overload.

When the USPS gets unplugged in Atglen, you'll see what I mean.

Edwards has not only read all of the 302s, he has absorbed them into his psyche. As a result, he has  profound depth of knowledge regarding the Norjak investigation, and from that place he assigns differing weights of validity to information or FBI conclusions.

One other tidbit on Edwards' book. He generally writes in the present tense, and often uses the future conditional tense, such as: "Tina goes to the cockpit and the skyjacker will be descending the aftstairs in 22 minutes." I found that jarring. Let me know what you think of that, please. To me, it gave a sense of an altered state of reality to the skyjacking.

When you get your copy, you can maybe explain to me much of what I read. Particularly what you agree with and what you don't.

Lastly, I'll bring my copy to the conference this week, so you can read it then.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 06:08:54 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #340 on: November 17, 2021, 06:11:30 PM »
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Bruce, congratulations on your overcoming the pain of not being referenced or mentioned in Dr. Edwards's book (according to your own statement).  Your last sentence above indicates that you are a true gentleman.


Thanks, Marty.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 06:11:53 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #341 on: November 17, 2021, 06:46:27 PM »
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Bruce, congratulations on your overcoming the pain of not being referenced or mentioned in Dr. Edwards's book (according to your own statement).  Your last sentence above indicates that you are a true gentleman.


Thanks, Marty.

That was Robert. 😉
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #342 on: November 17, 2021, 07:06:39 PM »
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Look, Marty, I may have read the book but that doesn't mean I understood or retained much of the details. Remember, I was medicated much of the time due to minutiae overload.

When the USPS gets unplugged in Atglen, you'll see what I mean.

Edwards has not only read all of the 302s, he has absorbed them into his psyche. As a result, he has  profound depth of knowledge regarding the Norjak investigation, and from that place he assigns differing weights of validity to information or FBI conclusions.

One other tidbit on Edwards' book. He generally writes in the present tense, and often uses the future conditional tense, such as: "Tina goes to the cockpit and the skyjacker will be descending the aftstairs in 22 minutes." I found that jarring. Let me know what you think of that, please. To me, it gave a sense of an altered state of reality to the skyjacking.

When you get your copy, you can maybe explain to me much of what I read. Particularly what you agree with and what you don't.

Lastly, I'll bring my copy to the conference this week, so you can read it then.

Bruce, Dr. Edwards has definitely impressed you.  Just hang in there and absorb everything he has written. :)
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #343 on: November 17, 2021, 10:59:21 PM »
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Edwards has not only read all of the 302s, he has absorbed them into his psyche. As a result, he has  profound depth of knowledge regarding the Norjak investigation, and from that place he assigns differing weights of validity to information or FBI conclusions.


Heh, triumph of the nerds. Sure sign of the end.

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes again

Can you picture what will be?
So limitless and free
Desperately in need
Of some stranger's hand
In a desperate land

Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain, yeah
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: The Cooper Vortex Podcast
« Reply #344 on: November 18, 2021, 02:19:22 AM »
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Bruce, congratulations on your overcoming the pain of not being referenced or mentioned in Dr. Edwards's book (according to your own statement).  Your last sentence above indicates that you are a true gentleman.


Thank you, Robert; and thanks to you, Marty, for helping clarify who the hell I'm talking to!