Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 750301 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6765 on: July 12, 2022, 06:02:55 PM »
MONEY BAG BOUYANCY

One reason that some people discount the Columbia River as a natural explanation for the money on Tena Bar is that “money doesn’t float”. We know that after a few minutes in water, the money packets fan out and sink.

Another reason is that if the money packets did, in fact, float then how did the three packets arrive together on Tena Bar?

I asked a friend of mine who has been a scientist for 25 years. He has no interest in the Cooper case and is fully unbiased. I provided him the metrics of the money bag (length, width, height, weight) and asked him to calculate if a tightly secured money bag would float in fresh water like the Columbia River.

The short answer is, yes. The money bag would float.

I have attached his calculations for everyone to review.

Since we now know that the money bag, if it remained secured and intact from the fall, can float, then it provides credence to the idea that both myself and Larry Carr have gone on record with.

This theory is that the money bag would be transported downstream, open up on Tena Bar depositing some of the money before the rest of it is carried on down river.

The important part of this is that the money bag doesn’t require a snag or a piece of debris to move downstream. It could float on its own.

I believe this is a crucial finding that provides more support for a natural explanation for the money arriving on Tena Bar.

As always, I appreciate any feedback and fact-checking.

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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6766 on: July 12, 2022, 06:51:43 PM »
This has been discussed before, and part of the equation would be, how tightly the top of the bag is tied shut and how porous is the bag material. The bag would float due to the air trapped inside, but how quickly would the air escape and be replaced by water, which would then cause it to sink?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6767 on: July 12, 2022, 07:36:44 PM »
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This has been discussed before, and part of the equation would be, how tightly the top of the bag is tied shut and how porous is the bag material. The bag would float due to the air trapped inside, but how quickly would the air escape and be replaced by water, which would then cause it to sink?
I agree that there are variables which we do not know. For example, would the bag remain intact after impact with the ground?

That said, if the bag remained intact and tightly bound, it would float for a period of time.

Carr has said that the bag was wrapped around and around both top and bottom with parachute cord.
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Offline JAG

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6768 on: July 13, 2022, 06:40:07 AM »
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This has been discussed before, and part of the equation would be, how tightly the top of the bag is tied shut and how porous is the bag material. The bag would float due to the air trapped inside, but how quickly would the air escape and be replaced by water, which would then cause it to sink?
I agree that there are variables which we do not know. For example, would the bag remain intact after impact with the ground?

That said, if the bag remained intact and tightly bound, it would float for a period of time.

Carr has said that the bag was wrapped around and around both top and bottom with parachute cord.

Chaucer, sounds like an awesome vacation, I'm a little jealous!

Floating for a period of time is the key in this scenario. Are you saying that:
- the money bag hit the water the night of hijacking ?  If so, which body of water ?
   - The Colombia River directly ?
   - A tributary leading into the Colombia ?
- the money landed on dry land, and then at a point in the future, (i.e. spring flood), the still intact money bag was lifted by rising waters and the floated to Tena Bar ?

For how long a period of time could the bag remain less dense than the water ?  An hour fully submerged ?  8 hours ?  Obviously, this is an unknown unless someone could run some tests with a fake bag and money.

In my mind, where and how far away the money bag landed from Tena Bar as well as how long the bag could have stayed less dense than the water once being submerged are key factors in this theory.  For the floating theory, I kind of think that the scenario of it landing near some stream/tributary and being carried all the way to the Colombia and then to Tena bar seems more challenging, I would think that it would get hung up somewhere before ever making it to the Colombia. 

Good discussion, fun to ponder.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 06:42:44 AM by JAG »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6769 on: July 13, 2022, 12:25:22 PM »
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Chaucer, sounds like an awesome vacation, I'm a little jealous!
It was great. I think we hit 9 states and nearly that many national parks.

Quote
- the money landed on dry land, and then at a point in the future, (i.e. spring flood), the still intact money bag was lifted by rising waters and the floated to Tena Bar ?
This. Based on the diatom informaton from TK, the money could not have gotten wet the night of the hijacking. I hypothesize that the money and/or Cooper ended up on the banks of the Columbia (somewhere below where 305 passed over) the night of the hijacking. It remained intact and undisturbed until sometime later (likely the spring of 72, but it could be any spring between 72 and 79). Then it was picked up and either floated on its own or with assistance from a snag on a piece of debris such as a branch or log to Tena Bar. The bag spilled out some or all of its contents and the three packets were buried via alluvial sedimentation. The theory doesn't require far-out theories or exotic explanations. It's all observable, natural processes.


Quote
For how long a period of time could the bag remain less dense than the water ?  An hour fully submerged ?  8 hours ?  Obviously, this is an unknown unless someone could run some tests with a fake bag and money.
I don't know how long the bag would remain afloat. We don't even know if the bag would survive the fall from the plane. There are lots of variables about this case we simply do not know. I do plan on conducting a test, videotaping it and posting it publicly whether it sinks or floats.

Quote
In my mind, where and how far away the money bag landed from Tena Bar as well as how long the bag could have stayed less dense than the water once being submerged are key factors in this theory.
Agreed.

Quote
For the floating theory, I kind of think that the scenario of it landing near some stream/tributary and being carried all the way to the Colombia and then to Tena bar seems more challenging, I would think that it would get hung up somewhere before ever making it to the Colombia. 
I agree. I don't think it traveled down a tributary. It entered the Columbia directly and then made its way to Tena Bar via natural means.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 12:25:53 PM by Chaucer »
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6770 on: July 13, 2022, 06:35:18 PM »
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We don't even know if the bag would survive the fall from the plane.

A reasonably educated guess, but I think that if the bag separated from Cooper in-air, it would likely survive it's own impact. A question would be how securely it was tied shut. If Cooper no-pulls with the bag attached, a lot would depend on how it all hits. If the bag is under him, obviously more chance for damage. If the bag is on top of him at impact, then it likely remains intact. Then it would be how easily would it become detached from his body? I would imagine a similarity in how securely it was tied to him and how securely it was tied shut?
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6771 on: July 14, 2022, 02:27:44 PM »
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We don't even know if the bag would survive the fall from the plane.

A reasonably educated guess, but I think that if the bag separated from Cooper in-air, it would likely survive it's own impact. A question would be how securely it was tied shut. If Cooper no-pulls with the bag attached, a lot would depend on how it all hits. If the bag is under him, obviously more chance for damage. If the bag is on top of him at impact, then it likely remains intact. Then it would be how easily would it become detached from his body? I would imagine a similarity in how securely it was tied to him and how securely it was tied shut?
Martin McNally's money bag survived impact, so one would assume Cooper's could as well.

Tom Kaye has stated that more than 100 feet of shroud line was cut by Cooper and Larry Carr has stated that Cooper wrapped the money bag top to bottom and side to side with cord. I would expect the bag to be rather tightly secured.

That said, there is much we don't know, and a lot of variables that could change a lot of what we think.
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Offline DBfan57

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6772 on: July 19, 2022, 07:31:11 AM »
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We don't even know if the bag would survive the fall from the plane.

A reasonably educated guess, but I think that if the bag separated from Cooper in-air, it would likely survive it's own impact. A question would be how securely it was tied shut. If Cooper no-pulls with the bag attached, a lot would depend on how it all hits. If the bag is under him, obviously more chance for damage. If the bag is on top of him at impact, then it likely remains intact. Then it would be how easily would it become detached from his body? I would imagine a similarity in how securely it was tied to him and how securely it was tied shut?
Martin McNally's money bag survived impact, so one would assume Cooper's could as well.

Tom Kaye has stated that more than 100 feet of shroud line was cut by Cooper and Larry Carr has stated that Cooper wrapped the money bag top to bottom and side to side with cord. I would expect the bag to be rather tightly secured.

That said, there is much we don't know, and a lot of variables that could change a lot of what we think.

Yes.  Like what else did he have in his bag of tricks hidden? Not even Mucklow knew what he had with him.