Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 622964 times)

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3177
  • Thanked: 465 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4920 on: January 07, 2022, 02:31:50 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
follow up ...

Apparently, there was no plan to intercept the hijacker who left from Portland, bailed soon after Seattle, and may have been trying to get back to Portland ? Extensive work was done to verify the flight path and Cooper's jump zone, but no plan to try and intercept Cooper between his jump point and Portland. There is nothing about such a plan in the FBI files so far .... nothing. Were there agents observing people in the Portland airport during the week following the hijacking? Where's a 302 about that or any tactical efforts to find and intercept Cooper immediately after he bailed ? Were any of these guys living below the rail bridge between VCR and PDX interviewed to ask if they had noticed anyone new wandering through ? Boots on the ground actually searching/investigating ?     

Georger, there is absolutely nothing to support your theory about the hobos and their encampment.  Also, where does this "VCR" come from?  Do you mean VOR?

VCR = Vancouver  ?

What's my "theory" about the hobos and their encampment(s)? Are you now claiming there were no hobos and encampments adjacent to rail lines in the Vancouver and Portland areas in 1971? 

Are you now claiming hobos and encampments died too along with Cooper dying? Kind of a  mass extinction from .... The Hand of R99 ?  ;)   
 

Offline DBfan57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4921 on: January 07, 2022, 08:43:29 AM »
OK I am going to steer away from the money at Tena Bar ( I have seen Tena Bar spelled very often Tina also).  Not sure which is correct?  But anyway, I do not believe that on this forum there has been enough solid proof to dismiss Richard Floyd McCoy as being DB Cooper or Dan Cooper.  The elimination of him as a suspect is flimsy.  Very flimsy.
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Thanked: 121 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4922 on: January 07, 2022, 10:45:19 AM »
McCoy was at home 10am on Thanksgiving day according to a non-relative witness.  A financial transaction places him in Provo on Thanksgiving too.

There were no flights available to McCoy to get from PDX to SLC, so the FBI focused on Las Vegas flights. But the miles on McCoy's vehicle had been recorded, and there weren't enough miles on it to get him to Vegas twice that month.

McCoy's finances were tracked so closely that it showed he didn't have the money to pay for the flight to PDX.  The FBI checked his fingerprints and took a hair sample. The witnesses all universally said 'no'.

He had not the means, he had not the opportunity, to commit the crime, and all the forensic evidence came up negative.

The FBI even investigated McCoy's connection to the tie by obtaining pictures of him wearing the dark tie that his in-laws suggested matched the one found on the plane. It did not match, and the photos showed there was no tie clip or tie tack present on that tie. The tie found on the plane did not belong to McCoy.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2022, 10:55:47 AM by andrade1812 »
 
The following users thanked this post: 377, Parrotheadvol, Darren, JAG

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Thanked: 433 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4923 on: January 07, 2022, 04:13:08 PM »
That's a very comprehensive synopsis of McCoy's activities on the T-Day weekend. Where did you get it all? Mileage on his care? Whew. That's some deep diving.

BTW, DB Fan, I spell Tina Bar as in Christina. I am one of the few. Even the Fazios have tacked a TENA sign over their TINA sign. Sigh....
 
The following users thanked this post: georger

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Thanked: 121 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4924 on: January 08, 2022, 12:04:31 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's a very comprehensive synopsis of McCoy's activities on the T-Day weekend. Where did you get it all? Mileage on his care? Whew. That's some deep diving.

The depth of the FBI investigation into McCoy is available in excruciating detail in the FBI files.
 

Offline DBfan57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4925 on: January 11, 2022, 04:25:48 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
That's a very comprehensive synopsis of McCoy's activities on the T-Day weekend. Where did you get it all? Mileage on his care? Whew. That's some deep diving.

BTW, DB Fan, I spell Tina Bar as in Christina. I am one of the few. Even the Fazios have tacked a TENA sign over their TINA sign. Sigh....

It just seems to me that most of you on this forum are hell bent on rejecting the most likely suspect, Richard Floyd McCoy as being the real DB Cooper.  He damn well may have been DB Cooper.  You cannot disprove it.  Mr Gryder cannot give you forensic proof but his case seems pretty solid to me.  I am a bit hesitant on the son.  He seems like a con man to me.  But the daughter does not. There is strong merit to this case he has put on.  I know most of you do not want to believe it was him.  Too easy.  Hell, the guy was a green beret.  Give him some respect. He fought in Vietnam, two tours.  That is very impressive.  So does your buddy have his whereabouts nailed down to the point its proven, rock solid?  I doubt it. If there is a part two to Dan Gryders show I am going to watch.  Most outside of the"Cooper World" ass you  all call it, have seemed to accept Gryder's theory.  Its logical.  The fact that he left a few finger print on flight 855 is one thing that seemed a bit sloppy in comparison. But he did leave the tie and cigarette butts on flight 305.  Obviously he could not have known DNA testing would be born a few decades later.  And I guess the FBI did not either?  The FBI files show on McCoy is  very good show.  Showing the 855 skyjacking in detail.  Then Richards escape from prison.  He even told the FBI investigator to his face, "Ill escape, you wont hold me".  The overzealous pricks then executed him walking into a safe house.  They did not have to kill him.  Their final mistake in this case. It comes down to faith right now. And Ulis and his non stop badgering of Gryder and his case are a bit desperate.  And they come across as desperate. I am less  impressed with that guy the more I see him.  I have known his type. I worked for a guy just like him.  Let him keep digging. Right now I would say I am about 85 percent in the corner that DB Cooper was in fact Richard Floyd McCoy.  Richard did many good things in his life.  He cannot be remembered as just a bad guy.  His back was against the wall as the FBI investigator said.  The smart one, not Himelsphuck. 
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Thanked: 121 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4926 on: January 11, 2022, 08:30:24 AM »
I'm, personally, not hell bent on anything. I am only sharing the work done by others. These FBI files on McCoy have been available for a couple of years now, and Gryder clearly was not familiar with any of their contents, especially the multiple pieces of evidence that put McCoy in Provo on Thanksgiving. This essentially destroys the entire narrative, and a new one will have to be built (and I'm told will be built) based on the information in the FBI files. I don't see how a reasonable case can be made, given the contents of the FBI files, but much like anything else, confirmation bias will produce just enough creative energy to "make something" fit.

What we haven't received is any falsifiable information that could persuade someone with deep knowledge of the case that McCoy was Cooper. All we have gotten is a summary of the Calame and Rhodes book, which was full of fabrications to begin with.
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Thanked: 433 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4927 on: January 11, 2022, 02:53:40 PM »
Whoa, Marty. Calame and Rhodes' book is full of fabrications? Like what?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Thanked: 433 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4928 on: January 11, 2022, 02:58:24 PM »
Yo, DB Fan. Accepting Richard McCoy as DB Cooper requires one to untangle the FBI conundrum - whom to believe and what evidence to accept.

The Seattle office has what they consider proof that McCoy was in Provo on Thanksgiving Day, 1971; ie: the eye-witness reports that place McCoy at home and his mileage logs, such as those Marty has been referring to.

The Salt Lake City office says, "Nope. He was in Las Vegas and probably transiting to/from Portland," and Calame and Rhodes have a ton of evidence to support that perspective, such as gas receipts and a collect phone call.

To accept McCoy as Cooper, you have to disprove the Seattle's evidence. Can you?

More troubling, can Gryder? As Marty has pointed out, Dan Gryder is grossly under-informed on much of the McCoy evidence. Such a state of affairs makes his touting of McCoy-as-Cooper nearly impossible to believe.

In addition, dodging my phone calls AND dissing Darren puts Gryder, Chante, and Little Rick in a bad light. That's two big strikes against Danny G, and one more assigns him to the trash pile along with RMB and Kenny C.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 03:10:18 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Thanked: 433 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4929 on: January 11, 2022, 03:00:55 PM »
Another thought, DB Fan. Why do you believe Chante McCoy over Marla Cooper, Lisa Story, Barb Dayton, et. al.?

I say, Bring on the Blondes! Eric, you listening to me???
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1826
  • Thanked: 173 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4930 on: January 11, 2022, 03:56:27 PM »

Running the numbers on how cold-cases have been resolved historically (1987-2021), there is a bias to blonde females being involved.
So anything a blonde female says about DBC, has more credibility.

This is all covered in a powerpoint slide deck to be delivered at the next DBC forum.
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Thanked: 121 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4931 on: January 11, 2022, 06:44:04 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Whoa, Marty. Calame and Rhodes' book is full of fabrications? Like what?

The BYU tie pin, for one. Didn't exist. There are memos written by Calame in the FBI documents, so he knew about all the contraindicating evidence. He knew the dates of the Vegas trip. I would have to go through the book again now and compare what we now know he knew against what was in the book. The book is intentionally misleading.
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233

Offline DBfan57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 309
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4932 on: January 15, 2022, 04:26:16 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yo, DB Fan. Accepting Richard McCoy as DB Cooper requires one to untangle the FBI conundrum - whom to believe and what evidence to accept.

The Seattle office has what they consider proof that McCoy was in Provo on Thanksgiving Day, 1971; ie: the eye-witness reports that place McCoy at home and his mileage logs, such as those Marty has been referring to.

The Salt Lake City office says, "Nope. He was in Las Vegas and probably transiting to/from Portland," and Calame and Rhodes have a ton of evidence to support that perspective, such as gas receipts and a collect phone call.

To accept McCoy as Cooper, you have to disprove the Seattle's evidence. Can you?

More troubling, can Gryder? As Marty has pointed out, Dan Gryder is grossly under-informed on much of the McCoy evidence. Such a state of affairs makes his touting of McCoy-as-Cooper nearly impossible to believe.

In addition, dodging my phone calls AND dissing Darren puts Gryder, Chante, and Little Rick in a bad light. That's two big strikes against Danny G, and one more assigns him to the trash pile along with RMB and Kenny C.

OK Bruce.  First of all, I am not 100% sold. But lets see what Gryder offers up in part 2?  And also, if you have a way, could you arrange Chante to take a lie detector test?  I would not involve Richards son because that guy looks like he just came out of Leavenworth.  But Chante is the more credible source would you not agree?  See if she will take a lie detector test?  That is a start.  As for the FBI, how can you put any faith in them?  Himmelsdick was just terrible. And he has no evidence that DB Cooper no matter who he was died in the jump.  If it was Richard McCoy, lets not forget, the guy was a GREEN BERET.  Do you think a green beret is going to just crumble?  Ask that to your pal Ulis who has really made a fool of himself lately.  So I would ask you to arrange a lie detector test since you are "connected".  You know, like a mobster.  LOL
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 609
  • Thanked: 121 times
    • My Website
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4933 on: January 15, 2022, 06:02:18 PM »
Himmelsbach was out of the FBI in 1980, and he was never the Norjak case agent. He is essentially a minor figure in the history of the case and had very little to do with the investigation. The FBI documents prove this. Gryder's interview with him is a meaningless sideshow.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Thanked: 433 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4934 on: January 15, 2022, 08:39:07 PM »
C'mon Marty, I wouldn't call Himmelsbach a meaningless sideshow. He did answer the call of duty for the grand jury in 1975 - or was it 1976 when the statute of limitations on sky piracy was up. And he did the T-Bar dig. But yes, Gryder's interviews with him were mostly distractions. Pleasant though. I enjoyed watching them.

Dan Gryder is mostly a showman. The current discussion of Gryder/McCoy reminds me of Blevins and Christensen a few years back. A lot of heat in some circles, but not much substance.