Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 623004 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4905 on: December 30, 2021, 12:36:12 PM »
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We have to stay tuned for part two Bruce.  I mean, Gryder has put on one hell of a presentation, like it or not.  He has put Richard Floyd McCoy back at the top IMO.  He has admitted this case is not going to be proved forensically.  The cigarette butts did that.  And his claim that they did it purposely to avoid embarrassment has merit.  Lets see what else Dan has up his sleeve.  He has said there will be a part two.  He seems to be a very credible man to me.  He is likely going to try and further tie those comic books to Richard.  Just a guess.  Maybe more testimony to the tie belonging to Richard.  For those of you that are hell bent on not accepting Richard ever, you can always hang your hat on the forensics or lack thereof.  To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.  The only thing Kaye got wrong is Dan Cooper lived.  Look, when I was younger I swam half the St Lawrence River at the American channel.  So yes, I believe even if Dan Cooper, no matter who he was, landed in water, and thats no given, he could have swam to shore with the adrenaline he had pumping for survival.  The St Lawrence is far wider than even the Columbia.  Piece of cake for a younger man. And we know that if it was Richard we are talking about a green beret !!!!!!!!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.

Is there a translation for this? Maybe it doesnt matter !
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4906 on: December 30, 2021, 06:28:08 PM »
A question about those pesky cigarette butts...

Cooper's cigarettes, were they filtered or non-filtered?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4907 on: December 30, 2021, 08:52:09 PM »
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A question about those pesky cigarette butts...

Cooper's cigarettes, were they filtered or non-filtered?
Filter-tipped.
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4908 on: December 31, 2021, 06:20:10 PM »
Thank you Chaucer. I was just curious, because a lot is said about how the FBI either lost or threw away those butts. I was thinking those old Raleighs might have been non-filtered, and if they were, they would probably have fallen apart fairly quickly and might have been rendered useless.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4909 on: December 31, 2021, 07:01:34 PM »
Agreed, but they were Raleigh filter-tipped soft pack cigarettes.

Those butts are gone and that line of inquiry is a dead end. Oh, well!
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4910 on: January 04, 2022, 07:21:33 AM »
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We have to stay tuned for part two Bruce.  I mean, Gryder has put on one hell of a presentation, like it or not.  He has put Richard Floyd McCoy back at the top IMO.  He has admitted this case is not going to be proved forensically.  The cigarette butts did that.  And his claim that they did it purposely to avoid embarrassment has merit.  Lets see what else Dan has up his sleeve.  He has said there will be a part two.  He seems to be a very credible man to me.  He is likely going to try and further tie those comic books to Richard.  Just a guess.  Maybe more testimony to the tie belonging to Richard.  For those of you that are hell bent on not accepting Richard ever, you can always hang your hat on the forensics or lack thereof.  To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.  The only thing Kaye got wrong is Dan Cooper lived.  Look, when I was younger I swam half the St Lawrence River at the American channel.  So yes, I believe even if Dan Cooper, no matter who he was, landed in water, and thats no given, he could have swam to shore with the adrenaline he had pumping for survival.  The St Lawrence is far wider than even the Columbia.  Piece of cake for a younger man. And we know that if it was Richard we are talking about a green beret !!!!!!!!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.

Is there a translation for this? Maybe it doesnt matter !

Kaye said he dropped the money in the water
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4911 on: January 04, 2022, 09:43:57 AM »
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We have to stay tuned for part two Bruce.  I mean, Gryder has put on one hell of a presentation, like it or not.  He has put Richard Floyd McCoy back at the top IMO.  He has admitted this case is not going to be proved forensically.  The cigarette butts did that.  And his claim that they did it purposely to avoid embarrassment has merit.  Lets see what else Dan has up his sleeve.  He has said there will be a part two.  He seems to be a very credible man to me.  He is likely going to try and further tie those comic books to Richard.  Just a guess.  Maybe more testimony to the tie belonging to Richard.  For those of you that are hell bent on not accepting Richard ever, you can always hang your hat on the forensics or lack thereof.  To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.  The only thing Kaye got wrong is Dan Cooper lived.  Look, when I was younger I swam half the St Lawrence River at the American channel.  So yes, I believe even if Dan Cooper, no matter who he was, landed in water, and thats no given, he could have swam to shore with the adrenaline he had pumping for survival.  The St Lawrence is far wider than even the Columbia.  Piece of cake for a younger man. And we know that if it was Richard we are talking about a green beret !!!!!!!!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.

Is there a translation for this? Maybe it doesnt matter !

Kaye said he dropped the money in the water

Kaye has indicated that the money went into the water in the spring. He does not believe the money went into the water at the time of Coopers jump.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4912 on: January 04, 2022, 11:40:27 PM »
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We have to stay tuned for part two Bruce.  I mean, Gryder has put on one hell of a presentation, like it or not.  He has put Richard Floyd McCoy back at the top IMO.  He has admitted this case is not going to be proved forensically.  The cigarette butts did that.  And his claim that they did it purposely to avoid embarrassment has merit.  Lets see what else Dan has up his sleeve.  He has said there will be a part two.  He seems to be a very credible man to me.  He is likely going to try and further tie those comic books to Richard.  Just a guess.  Maybe more testimony to the tie belonging to Richard.  For those of you that are hell bent on not accepting Richard ever, you can always hang your hat on the forensics or lack thereof.  To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.  The only thing Kaye got wrong is Dan Cooper lived.  Look, when I was younger I swam half the St Lawrence River at the American channel.  So yes, I believe even if Dan Cooper, no matter who he was, landed in water, and thats no given, he could have swam to shore with the adrenaline he had pumping for survival.  The St Lawrence is far wider than even the Columbia.  Piece of cake for a younger man. And we know that if it was Richard we are talking about a green beret !!!!!!!!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.

Is there a translation for this? Maybe it doesnt matter !

Kaye said he dropped the money in the water

Kaye has indicated that the money went into the water in the spring. He does not believe the money went into the water at the time of Coopers jump.

The ONLY fact established is diatom EXPOSURE to Spring diatom species... so the money was in water that had diatoms in some spring, year unknown. Whether the money WENT INTO the water at the same time, whatever that is, or wherever that is ......... is unknown. Kaye only believes it - he does not know it as a matter of fact.  Kaye's BELIEF may be correct or not.   

Rumor has it that money has an affinity for going into water sometime. Somewhere. Before the Second Coming ....   
« Last Edit: January 04, 2022, 11:49:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4913 on: January 05, 2022, 01:13:35 AM »
How can the money be exposed to spring diatoms without going into the water in the spring?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4914 on: January 05, 2022, 02:49:33 PM »
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How can the money be exposed to spring diatoms without going into the water in the spring?

By being buried previously - erosion exposes the money to water born diatoms. Remember the discussion about 'can toms work their way through sand, and how deep do toms penetrate ...' ?  There are a number of scenarios that could apply. Tom use asterionella as his example because of its fragility.

Tom cites asterionella but in fact he found 7 species on the money. Which species got to the money first? Yes, the whole group is a springtime family but they are also a summer group bloom. The dredging happened in late summer to Sept. Thats on the borderline btwn spring~summer.

We dont know if the three bundles came as a group or as part of a larger group of bundles   .... in or out of the bag ? The bag would shield all of the money from exposure to diatoms until the bag broke or deteriorated letting water have direct contact with bundles ....

There is nothing in the findings so far that guarantees they money arrived anywhere in the Spring. The finds so far only prove EXPOSURE. to 7 species of diatoms. As  a group, the seven species span spring-late summer.

That's why!   

 

 
 
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4915 on: January 05, 2022, 02:54:13 PM »
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We have to stay tuned for part two Bruce.  I mean, Gryder has put on one hell of a presentation, like it or not.  He has put Richard Floyd McCoy back at the top IMO.  He has admitted this case is not going to be proved forensically.  The cigarette butts did that.  And his claim that they did it purposely to avoid embarrassment has merit.  Lets see what else Dan has up his sleeve.  He has said there will be a part two.  He seems to be a very credible man to me.  He is likely going to try and further tie those comic books to Richard.  Just a guess.  Maybe more testimony to the tie belonging to Richard.  For those of you that are hell bent on not accepting Richard ever, you can always hang your hat on the forensics or lack thereof.  To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.  The only thing Kaye got wrong is Dan Cooper lived.  Look, when I was younger I swam half the St Lawrence River at the American channel.  So yes, I believe even if Dan Cooper, no matter who he was, landed in water, and thats no given, he could have swam to shore with the adrenaline he had pumping for survival.  The St Lawrence is far wider than even the Columbia.  Piece of cake for a younger man. And we know that if it was Richard we are talking about a green beret !!!!!!!!  Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

To me Tom Kaye's theory holds water if McCoy was indeed the bird.

Is there a translation for this? Maybe it doesnt matter !

Kaye said he dropped the money in the water

Kaye has indicated that the money went into the water in the spring. He does not believe the money went into the water at the time of Coopers jump.

The ONLY fact established is diatom EXPOSURE to Spring diatom species... so the money was in water that had diatoms in some spring, year unknown. Whether the money WENT INTO the water at the same time, whatever that is, or wherever that is ......... is unknown. Kaye only believes it - he does not know it as a matter of fact.  Kaye's BELIEF may be correct or not.   

Rumor has it that money has an affinity for going into water sometime. Somewhere. Before the Second Coming ....

I don't disagree with any of this, I was just responding to someone who said that Kaye said the Cooper dropped the money in the water, which I have never heard Kaye say, quite the opposite. As to whether Kaye is right or wrong, is above my pay grade. So, it's a discussion that I tend to sit out.
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4916 on: January 05, 2022, 02:57:41 PM »
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How can the money be exposed to spring diatoms without going into the water in the spring?

By being buried previously - erosion exposes the money to water born diatoms. Remember the discussion about 'can toms work their way through sand, and how deep do toms penetrate ...' ?  There are a number of scenarios that could apply. Tom use asterionella as his example because of its fragility.

Tom cites asterionella but in fact he found 7 species on the money. Which species got to the money first? Yes, the whole group is a springtime family but they are also a summer group bloom. The dredging happened in late summer to Sept. Thats on the borderline btwn spring~summer.

We dont know if the three bundles came as a group or as part of a larger group of bundles   .... in or out of the bag ? The bag would shield all of the money from exposure to diatoms until the bag broke or deteriorated letting water have direct contact with bundles ....

There is nothing in the findings so far that guarantees they money arrived anywhere in the Spring. The finds so far only prove EXPOSURE. to 7 species of diatoms. As  a group, the seven species span spring-late summer.

That's why!

Georger, do you believe dredging to be the most likely way that the money arrived to TB? You mention it quite a bit. Just curious.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4917 on: January 05, 2022, 03:33:34 PM »
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How can the money be exposed to spring diatoms without going into the water in the spring?

By being buried previously - erosion exposes the money to water born diatoms. Remember the discussion about 'can toms work their way through sand, and how deep do toms penetrate ...' ?  There are a number of scenarios that could apply. Tom use asterionella as his example because of its fragility.

Tom cites asterionella but in fact he found 7 species on the money. Which species got to the money first? Yes, the whole group is a springtime family but they are also a summer group bloom. The dredging happened in late summer to Sept. Thats on the borderline btwn spring~summer.

We dont know if the three bundles came as a group or as part of a larger group of bundles   .... in or out of the bag ? The bag would shield all of the money from exposure to diatoms until the bag broke or deteriorated letting water have direct contact with bundles ....

There is nothing in the findings so far that guarantees they money arrived anywhere in the Spring. The finds so far only prove EXPOSURE. to 7 species of diatoms. As  a group, the seven species span spring-late summer.

That's why!

Georger, do you believe dredging to be the most likely way that the money arrived to TB? You mention it quite a bit. Just curious.

Yes I do - and a poll of agents at Portland/Vancouver also agreed the dredging was the most likely scenario. But that doesn't get us much. How did the bag of money get attached to the bottom to be scooped up during the dredging? Where did it come from.

We know Cooper did not land on Tina Bar - that is total fiction. We know three lone bundles did not flow down the river to wind up at T-Bar! Its unlikely anyone buried three lone bundles at T-Bar.  The money was in Cooper's possession. For any money to be found south of Lake Merwin, Cooper has to survive the drop and travel south toward Vancouver with the money. There are just a finite number of ways money can wind up on Tina Bar. The pool of fragments along with the Ingram bundles suggests the bundles were stirred during their life in-and-around the Ingram site. The only factual event that happened at Tina Bar from 1971-1980, was a dumping of bottom spoils in 74 followed by money discovery in 1980. No other large scale events that connect T-Bar with the outside world are known to have happened at Tina Bar during that critical time period. Everything else is theoretical. The dredging event is real and happened because it connects Tina Bar with the outside world during the critical time period before the Columbia basin water system could have erased the money forever ...

Let me also say, I think there was a critical detachment in the whole Seattle office, in the Cooper case. For one thing there is no way Seattle agents had the same first-hand perspective Portland and Vancouver agents had, with respect to the Columbia and how money could have been processed in the Portland ecology, once Cooper and the money entered the Columbia Basin. The money obviously entered the Portland-Columbia ecology, as a fact of nature. Once that happened there were only so many options available for what could (and did!) happen to Cooper and his money. At the end of that series of events lone visitors find Cooper money on a sand bar beach 4 miles west of Vancouver. No big surprise given the natural facts of the Portland Columbia area. Dr Edwards has picked up on this fact in his work. Somehow Cooper and the money got separated, in the Portland-Vancouver water shed. At some point in his travels into this area, Cooper and the money were together ... and then they weren't! Money is then found on a beach of the Columbia in 1980. Events conspired to put Seattle in charge of an events that didnt even happen in their own back yard! The Seattle office may not have had a firm perspective on how to approach this ... or the investigative options available in the Portland-Columbia area far away from Seattle and Washington DC.     
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 04:06:52 PM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4918 on: January 05, 2022, 11:56:03 PM »
follow up ...

Apparently, there was no plan to intercept the hijacker who left from Portland, bailed soon after Seattle, and may have been trying to get back to Portland ? Extensive work was done to verify the flight path and Cooper's jump zone, but no plan to try and intercept Cooper between his jump point and Portland. There is nothing about such a plan in the FBI files so far .... nothing. Were there agents observing people in the Portland airport during the week following the hijacking? Where's a 302 about that or any tactical efforts to find and intercept Cooper immediately after he bailed ? Were any of these guys living below the rail bridge between VCR and PDX interviewed to ask if they had noticed anyone new wandering through ? Boots on the ground actually searching/investigating ?     
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4919 on: January 06, 2022, 01:58:00 PM »
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follow up ...

Apparently, there was no plan to intercept the hijacker who left from Portland, bailed soon after Seattle, and may have been trying to get back to Portland ? Extensive work was done to verify the flight path and Cooper's jump zone, but no plan to try and intercept Cooper between his jump point and Portland. There is nothing about such a plan in the FBI files so far .... nothing. Were there agents observing people in the Portland airport during the week following the hijacking? Where's a 302 about that or any tactical efforts to find and intercept Cooper immediately after he bailed ? Were any of these guys living below the rail bridge between VCR and PDX interviewed to ask if they had noticed anyone new wandering through ? Boots on the ground actually searching/investigating ?     

Georger, there is absolutely nothing to support your theory about the hobos and their encampment.  Also, where does this "VCR" come from?  Do you mean VOR?