Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 715972 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5130 on: September 11, 2022, 06:04:41 PM »
What show? Can you post a link? Thanks.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5131 on: September 11, 2022, 08:11:36 PM »
If it's that infographics video, it's garbage.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5132 on: September 12, 2022, 05:45:38 AM »
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What show? Can you post a link? Thanks.

Some Anthony RR Mill show.  Never heard of the guy and did not subscribe.  He was not great on details but did affirm his vote for McCoy.  Its titled  DB Cooper Mystery: Whom do I think was the real.....
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5133 on: September 26, 2022, 05:35:23 AM »
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Let’s keep this thread and Forum about DB Cooper please.

I will by all means, but did you see that YouTube feed that did combine the Cooper and Zodiac cases?  There seems to be some belief by some that the zodiac was indeed solved?  OK, that is the last Ill say about the zodiac.  Unless someone else brings it up.  Alcatraz gets thrown into the mix sometimes also because its another huge unsolved case like Cooper. The arrogance of the FBI is just beyond me.  Would you not think they would play ball on a case that is over half a century old?  If Cooper or one of the Anglin bros were caught now they would be very old men. So what satisfaction would they get locking one up?  And none of them are killers.  They never killed anyone.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5134 on: October 08, 2022, 08:25:34 AM »
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Don Burnworth was an interesting guy. For those of us who had the pleasure of chatting with him, he was a delight.

His personal life was a train wreck at times, but he a helluva pilot.

Yo, Bruce, did he tell you about his ex-wife being a psychic? That's a little tidbit I found in the ole paper archives. Burnworth is interesting. I have to assume the FBI investigated him and found reason to eliminate him, but boy he looks a lot like that composite B rendering, and boy, he sure fits the original psychological profile done for the "In search of..." Leonard Nimoy documentary. At the time of the hijacking, Burnworth was a bitter "ex commercial" pilot, etcetera.

I think Cooper probably was a bitter former pilot or airline employee, though I'm hardly unique in this belief.

No, Don said a LOT about his ex, Bernice, but I don't recall him claiming she was psychic. Psychotic, maybe, but not skilled in the paranormal.

In 1971, Don Burnworth was not bitter. Maybe in 1972 when UAL fired him, or when Bernice got him locked up for eight days in the San Mateo hoosgah. Everyone, including the FBI, agrees Don was a delightful match to the composite sketches, but the FBI was apparently satisfied that he was not DBC since they let him go after interrogating him. Don claimed they still harbored some doubts, though and placed a mole in his cell to hear if Don spilled the beans during a quiet moment.

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I spoke at length with Don Burnworth. He said his wife was mentally ill. He used the word psycho not psychic in describing her. He denied being Cooper and said he’d never made a parachute jump. He was friendly, open and very interesting. After Burnworth’s death I spoke with a retired United senior captain and instructor who knew Don and flew with him on checkrides. He said as soon as the FBI sketches were published many United pilots concluded that  Burnworth was Cooper. Don Burnworth knew 727 systems details better than most pilots. He received a US Patent on a safety upgrade to correct what he saw as a dangerous design flaw in the 727 electric power buss management. Don was seen as a troublemaker by mgmt. He was fired but the union demanded and obtained his reinstatement. Interestingly, after leaving UA, Don worked for the FAA as a test pilot.

The retired UA captain told me that there were rumors that Burnworth DID have parachute training. If that’s true then Burnworth deserves a closer look.

377
 
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Offline Olemisscub

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5135 on: October 09, 2022, 01:38:58 PM »
The potential silver bullet for Cooper being a 727 pilot is him telling Tina that the pilots could lower the aft stairs from the cockpit (like a C-130). Seems like a 727 pilot would know that wasn't possible...
 
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Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5136 on: October 13, 2022, 01:58:14 PM »
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The potential silver bullet for Cooper being a 727 pilot is him telling Tina that the pilots could lower the aft stairs from the cockpit (like a C-130). Seems like a 727 pilot would know that wasn't possible...
[/quot

It seems like a couple of sleuths in particular are hanging their hats on these 3 minute particles of Titanium?  A Titanium alloy. Being two metals combined.  They seem to believe that it links him directly to a plane company that has been mentioned?  But why could it not be a medical company?  Titanium is used in many many surgeries. I have some in my back.  Is it too far fetched that he could be a Dr or surgeon?  There are doctors and actors that fly planes. I would not rule anything out. They still have not solved it. And Dan Gryder, as much as I liked your presentation on Richard, you did promise us a part two I believe? I understand these things take time but you  seem to have gone off the radar?  I assume you  will be at the next Cooper event next month?  So you and Ulis can spar some more.?
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5137 on: October 13, 2022, 08:49:49 PM »
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[/quot

It seems like a couple of sleuths in particular are hanging their hats on these 3 minute particles of Titanium?  A Titanium alloy. Being two metals combined.  They seem to believe that it links him directly to a plane company that has been mentioned?  But why could it not be a medical company?  Titanium is used in many many surgeries. I have some in my back.  Is it too far fetched that he could be a Dr or surgeon?  There are doctors and actors that fly planes. I would not rule anything out. They still have not solved it. And Dan Gryder, as much as I liked your presentation on Richard, you did promise us a part two I believe? I understand these things take time but you  seem to have gone off the radar?  I assume you  will be at the next Cooper event next month?  So you and Ulis can spar some more.?

You need to familiarize yourself with Gryders history. His first video came out over 10 years later than when he initially promised it. To think that part 2, if there is one, will be prompt would be wrong.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 08:50:54 PM by Parrotheadvol »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5138 on: October 14, 2022, 05:46:55 PM »
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Don Burnworth was an interesting guy. For those of us who had the pleasure of chatting with him, he was a delight.

His personal life was a train wreck at times, but he a helluva pilot.

Yo, Bruce, did he tell you about his ex-wife being a psychic? That's a little tidbit I found in the ole paper archives. Burnworth is interesting. I have to assume the FBI investigated him and found reason to eliminate him, but boy he looks a lot like that composite B rendering, and boy, he sure fits the original psychological profile done for the "In search of..." Leonard Nimoy documentary. At the time of the hijacking, Burnworth was a bitter "ex commercial" pilot, etcetera.

I think Cooper probably was a bitter former pilot or airline employee, though I'm hardly unique in this belief.

No, Don said a LOT about his ex, Bernice, but I don't recall him claiming she was psychic. Psychotic, maybe, but not skilled in the paranormal.

In 1971, Don Burnworth was not bitter. Maybe in 1972 when UAL fired him, or when Bernice got him locked up for eight days in the San Mateo hoosgah. Everyone, including the FBI, agrees Don was a delightful match to the composite sketches, but the FBI was apparently satisfied that he was not DBC since they let him go after interrogating him. Don claimed they still harbored some doubts, though and placed a mole in his cell to hear if Don spilled the beans during a quiet moment.

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Don's pilot cap is for sale on ebay.

I spoke at length with Don Burnworth. He said his wife was mentally ill. He used the word psycho not psychic in describing her. He denied being Cooper and said he’d never made a parachute jump. He was friendly, open and very interesting. After Burnworth’s death I spoke with a retired United senior captain and instructor who knew Don and flew with him on checkrides. He said as soon as the FBI sketches were published many United pilots concluded that  Burnworth was Cooper. Don Burnworth knew 727 systems details better than most pilots. He received a US Patent on a safety upgrade to correct what he saw as a dangerous design flaw in the 727 electric power buss management. Don was seen as a troublemaker by mgmt. He was fired but the union demanded and obtained his reinstatement. Interestingly, after leaving UA, Don worked for the FAA as a test pilot.

The retired UA captain told me that there were rumors that Burnworth DID have parachute training. If that’s true then Burnworth deserves a closer look.

377

Don had a busy, chaotic, fascinating life, but I doubt that skydiving was part of it. He said he was an electronic tech in the army, and it sounds about right since he became an expert of the 727 electrical systems. Plus, Don's penchant for messy love affairs would give him all the thrills he would need in life, no?
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5139 on: October 16, 2022, 07:07:44 AM »
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The potential silver bullet for Cooper being a 727 pilot is him telling Tina that the pilots could lower the aft stairs from the cockpit (like a C-130). Seems like a 727 pilot would know that wasn't possible...

I agree, if he was a commercial air line pilot and flew 727s, you would think that he would know that the stairs could NOT be lowered form the cockpit--I don't believe that any of the commercial 727 fleet had this capability right?

So, the question is, where he did he come to that conclusion that they could be lowered from the cockpit ? Was it simply a misinformed assumption ?
They way in which he is quoted seems to come off as him being quite confident in his assertion.

The only other option, was there a special 727 tricked out for the CIA which had this option and where Cooper may have been involved ?  I know, the forums have discussed the Air America angle, and it has been said that the stairs were totally removed for that.  But it seems a reasonable possibility that if the CIA wanted to drop assets in areas that they weren't supposed to be, using a 727 without an aft door in place would not be covert, it would be a dead give away.  It would make more sense that a door would be in place to open and close. 

But, then you have to ask the question, why wouldn't they just have a person lower it manually from the back?  Reasonable question, but maybe the answer to that is if these are HALO jumps, that person would have to have a mask on...maybe just easier to have a button from the cockpit to open and close ?

Anyway, all speculation on my part.  But I am bothered by the confidence in his assertion that they could be opened from the cockpit.  Could just be a misinformed assumption I guess.
 
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Offline Jay Ritchie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5140 on: October 16, 2022, 04:44:10 PM »
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I agree, if he was a commercial air line pilot and flew 727s, you would think that he would know that the stairs could NOT be lowered form the cockpit--I don't believe that any of the commercial 727 fleet had this capability right?

So, the question is, where he did he come to that conclusion that they could be lowered from the cockpit ? Was it simply a misinformed assumption ?
They way in which he is quoted seems to come off as him being quite confident in his assertion.

The only other option, was there a special 727 tricked out for the CIA which had this option and where Cooper may have been involved ?  I know, the forums have discussed the Air America angle, and it has been said that the stairs were totally removed for that.  But it seems a reasonable possibility that if the CIA wanted to drop assets in areas that they weren't supposed to be, using a 727 without an aft door in place would not be covert, it would be a dead give away.  It would make more sense that a door would be in place to open and close. 

In Gregory Halls book he states that he was told by a man who had been involved with 727's in the Vietnam conflict that the stairs could be opened from the cockpit, which Hall claims he later confirmed with Boeing.
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5141 on: October 16, 2022, 05:05:50 PM »
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I agree, if he was a commercial air line pilot and flew 727s, you would think that he would know that the stairs could NOT be lowered form the cockpit--I don't believe that any of the commercial 727 fleet had this capability right?

So, the question is, where he did he come to that conclusion that they could be lowered from the cockpit ? Was it simply a misinformed assumption ?
They way in which he is quoted seems to come off as him being quite confident in his assertion.

The only other option, was there a special 727 tricked out for the CIA which had this option and where Cooper may have been involved ?  I know, the forums have discussed the Air America angle, and it has been said that the stairs were totally removed for that.  But it seems a reasonable possibility that if the CIA wanted to drop assets in areas that they weren't supposed to be, using a 727 without an aft door in place would not be covert, it would be a dead give away.  It would make more sense that a door would be in place to open and close. 

In Gregory Halls book he states that he was told by a man who had been involved with 727's in the Vietnam conflict that the stairs could be opened from the cockpit, which Hall claims he later confirmed with Boeing.

Did Halls' source have any involvement with 727s that were in commercial service in the USA?  JAG has got it right.  The CIA, or any other government organization, could make any modifications they desired to make to 727s without the approval of the FAA, Boeing, or anyone else.

Just putting the word "EXPERIMENTAL" by the aircraft entrance door eliminates the need for the aircraft to meet a lot of federal regulations.  In the case of the CIA, just ignoring all regulations would be a viable solution. 
 
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Offline Jay Ritchie

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5142 on: October 16, 2022, 05:17:58 PM »
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Did Halls' source have any involvement with 727s that were in commercial service in the USA?  JAG has got it right.  The CIA, or any other government organization, could make any modifications they desired to make to 727s without the approval of the FAA, Boeing, or anyone else.

Just putting the word "EXPERIMENTAL" by the aircraft entrance door eliminates the need for the aircraft to meet a lot of federal regulations.  In the case of the CIA, just ignoring all regulations would be a viable solution.

I'm pretty sure that all of Halls' sources experience was military or quasi military. Extracts from the book:

"According to Mr. A, and later confirmed to me by Boeing Aircraft,  the stairs can be lowered/raised from three locations on the aircraft. The  first location is from the flight deck, where they can be lowered by a crew  member. The second location is outside the aircraft, via an access panel on  the underside of the fuselage near the stairs (this location is used by ground  crew when the aircraft is on the ground) and lastly from the rear of the  interior of the aircraft, on the non-pressurized side of the bulkhead door.  The details of this information were new to me. "

"It took only a few moments to digest this information and to see how  critical it is in the search for DB Cooper. At a much later date, I confirmed this information two ways. First, I reviewed the Boeing Aircraft  owner’s manual for the B-727; the manual confirmed Mr. A’s information.  According to the manual, when lowered from the flight deck, the airstairs  are lowered hydraulically under 3,000 psi (pounds per square inch) of  pressure. When lowered from either of the other two locations at the rear of the aircraft, the airstairs fall under their own weight. According to the  manual, the terminology used in the stairs is “gravity fall” stairs. The gravity  fall method was an FAA requirement for the B-727 airworthiness certification. In case of an emergency or crash landing, the FAA did not want  the rear emergency exit (stairs) to have to rely upon hydraulic pressure,  which may not be available.  The second confirmation of Mr. A’s information occurred during the  filming of the DB Cooper episode of the television show EXPEDITION  UNKNOWN, hosted by Mr. Josh Gates. This episode was aired in early  2017 and I had the opportunity to appear on the show. During the daylong filming at the Boeing airfield in Seattle, Washington, I asked the  Boeing engineer assigned to the film crew about the stairs. He confirmed  the details of what Mr. A described to me."

 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5143 on: October 16, 2022, 08:43:32 PM »
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Did Halls' source have any involvement with 727s that were in commercial service in the USA?  JAG has got it right.  The CIA, or any other government organization, could make any modifications they desired to make to 727s without the approval of the FAA, Boeing, or anyone else.

Just putting the word "EXPERIMENTAL" by the aircraft entrance door eliminates the need for the aircraft to meet a lot of federal regulations.  In the case of the CIA, just ignoring all regulations would be a viable solution.

I'm pretty sure that all of Halls' sources experience was military or quasi military. Extracts from the book:

"According to Mr. A, and later confirmed to me by Boeing Aircraft,  the stairs can be lowered/raised from three locations on the aircraft. The  first location is from the flight deck, where they can be lowered by a crew  member. The second location is outside the aircraft, via an access panel on  the underside of the fuselage near the stairs (this location is used by ground  crew when the aircraft is on the ground) and lastly from the rear of the  interior of the aircraft, on the non-pressurized side of the bulkhead door.  The details of this information were new to me. "

"It took only a few moments to digest this information and to see how  critical it is in the search for DB Cooper. At a much later date, I confirmed this information two ways. First, I reviewed the Boeing Aircraft  owner’s manual for the B-727; the manual confirmed Mr. A’s information.  According to the manual, when lowered from the flight deck, the airstairs  are lowered hydraulically under 3,000 psi (pounds per square inch) of  pressure. When lowered from either of the other two locations at the rear of the aircraft, the airstairs fall under their own weight. According to the  manual, the terminology used in the stairs is “gravity fall” stairs. The gravity  fall method was an FAA requirement for the B-727 airworthiness certification. In case of an emergency or crash landing, the FAA did not want  the rear emergency exit (stairs) to have to rely upon hydraulic pressure,  which may not be available.  The second confirmation of Mr. A’s information occurred during the  filming of the DB Cooper episode of the television show EXPEDITION  UNKNOWN, hosted by Mr. Josh Gates. This episode was aired in early  2017 and I had the opportunity to appear on the show. During the daylong filming at the Boeing airfield in Seattle, Washington, I asked the  Boeing engineer assigned to the film crew about the stairs. He confirmed  the details of what Mr. A described to me."

Are you referring to the Expedition Unknown segment that aired in January 2017?  If so, the Washington state portions of that segment were filmed in August 2016.  At least three posters on this site were also in that segment.  I don't remember anyone named Hall being in the segment or a discussion of the stairs being capable of being deployed from the cockpit.

Eric Ulis, who was not in that segment, has a Facebook page that Josh Gates also belongs to and he has appeared in cable programs with Gates.  Anyone reading this who also belongs to that Facebook page could ask Gates if he knows anything about Halls' claim.
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5144 on: October 17, 2022, 02:14:50 PM »
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Are you referring to the Expedition Unknown segment that aired in January 2017?  If so, the Washington state portions of that segment were filmed in August 2016.  At least three posters on this site were also in that segment.  I don't remember anyone named Hall being in the segment or a discussion of the stairs being capable of being deployed from the cockpit.

Eric Ulis, who was not in that segment, has a Facebook page that Josh Gates also belongs to and he has appeared in cable programs with Gates.  Anyone reading this who also belongs to that Facebook page could ask Gates if he knows anything about Halls' claim.

EDIT:
I am not sure if he was actually on the show, I forget the details of the last segment, it sounds like he may have been.  But I guess his theory that the hijacker jumped on the approach to Reno was what was covered at the end of the episode. If you go to this link, this is what seems to indicate, he was more of an off camera consultant:

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« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 02:21:21 PM by JAG »