Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 670257 times)

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5025 on: June 27, 2022, 10:00:10 AM »
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I don't care what the guys family says unless they've got some of those twenty dollar bills handy or maybe the toupe he would have had to have worn on 24 Nov 71.

I wouldn't necessarily require that degree of evidence (because those twenties are long gone never to be seen again), but would certainly want more than what McCoys kids brought to the table. Especially considering the hurdles that you and others, including myself, have pointed out. He would have been easily figured out if he were the guy.

Some hurdles, for sure.

A) It's not him
B) He was not the guy

Kidding, but seriously. When it comes to cleared suspects, I like Don Burnworth a lot more. I don't really think he was the guy, but some photos at least look like the sketches. He fits the descriptions closely, not approximately. Swarthy, olive skin, had 727 intimate knowledge and experience, etcetera. Lastly, he was fired from his United Airlines pilot's job, and had marrital problems before the hijacking. Also, he was actually arrested in connection with the hijacking. However, the FBI ruled him out, so I've got to assume they were right. Why? Well, they're probably smarter than me.

Recently, I found a Nov 1986 Bellingham Herald article wherein Mucklow describes Cooper as having "tobacco stained teeth," and the "hands of a blue collar laborer like construction or a mechanic." So a working man, not a pilot (probably) or business exec. Unless they also had a farm, worked on their own cars, etcetera. I tend to think he was a poorer guy, one who was bitter from a life of thankless laboring.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 10:06:46 AM by JimmyCalhoun1991 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5026 on: June 27, 2022, 05:05:58 PM »
Don Burnworth was an interesting guy. For those of us who had the pleasure of chatting with him, he was a delight.

His personal life was a train wreck at times, but he a helluva pilot.
 

Offline Dfs346

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5027 on: June 28, 2022, 01:30:30 PM »
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I found a Nov 1986 Bellingham Herald article wherein Mucklow describes Cooper as having "tobacco stained teeth," and the "hands of a blue collar laborer like construction or a mechanic."
Could you post that article?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 01:32:07 PM by Dfs346 »
 

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5028 on: June 29, 2022, 09:47:56 PM »
Yes, sure. This is a snippet from the article, the rest is the usual anniversary-type information, rehashing of what happened, overview of the case, etcetera. The full article can be found online in the Bellingham Herald archives from 25 Nov 1987.

I found this searching for articles closer to the time of the event and random articles that happened during non-anniversary dates (random dates/years to cut back on the usual anniversary-type retread).
 
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Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5029 on: June 29, 2022, 10:15:41 PM »
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Don Burnworth was an interesting guy. For those of us who had the pleasure of chatting with him, he was a delight.

His personal life was a train wreck at times, but he a helluva pilot.

Yo, Bruce, did he tell you about his ex-wife being a psychic? That's a little tidbit I found in the ole paper archives. Burnworth is interesting. I have to assume the FBI investigated him and found reason to eliminate him, but boy he looks a lot like that composite B rendering, and boy, he sure fits the original psychological profile done for the "In search of..." Leonard Nimoy documentary. At the time of the hijacking, Burnworth was a bitter "ex commercial" pilot, etcetera.

I think Cooper probably was a bitter former pilot or airline employee, though I'm hardly unique in this belief.
 

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5030 on: June 30, 2022, 12:31:49 AM »
Here's another article I wanted to post talking about Cooper. This one is from two days after the hijacking. My goal in doing the paper archives research was to find articles as close to the event as possible, from smaller papers and larger ones. Most simply repost the original associated press write-up, but some offered interesting little bits like this one. Personally, I think any suspect who is not dark shouldn't even really be considered. The one universal thing every eyewitness stated: dark complexion.
 
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Offline Dfs346

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5031 on: June 30, 2022, 04:36:37 AM »
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This is a snippet from the article
Many thanks. Is there anything in the article which indicates whether the descriptions of the hijacker were based on original interviews by the Bellingham Herald, or whether they were quoting earlier press reports?
And could you post the text immediately preceding the phrase "later changed to 35 to 38"?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 05:29:48 AM by Dfs346 »
 

Offline Dfs346

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5032 on: June 30, 2022, 04:38:05 AM »
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Here's another article <> from two days after the hijacking.
Many thanks. Which newspaper?
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5033 on: June 30, 2022, 09:19:20 AM »
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Now there is a show on called Astonishing Legends.  2 or 3 part story.   Part 2 released last night.  Two guys talking about it but much nonsense in between.  So does anyone here believe Richard McCoy's daughter should be subjected to a lie detector test based on her allegations?  I certainly do.

Refresh my memory, how old was Chante when her dad was killed? We didn't really hear much from her in Dan's video about why she thought her dad was Cooper. It seems that it's mostly second hand info, which if she believes it, means she would probably pass the polygraph (see Marla Cooper), which would mean absolutely nothing.

Well it was about protecting the mother from prosecution and once she passed away, then it opened the flood gates for the son and daughter and Dan Gryder was there to use the info.  The best piece of evidence and only one so far that would make me think twice about Richard McCoy  being Cooper is that stuff the other guy on YouTube put out about the "Turkey Neck".  Heard of this? How bout you Bruce?   But once again, if you are going to shoot down Richard's daughter I am going to shoot down this punk that was 21 that had a seat on the plane, had the hots for Tina and Flo, and was just wondering why this older man was getting all the attention. Well fella, the guy that EU begged to come to Cooper Con and finally got him, your testimony of the Turkey neck ( which you cant remember now by the way), is something they are hanging their hats on to discount Richard Floyd McCoy.  An ex green beret for Gods sake to boot.   I still would like to see Chante take the lie detector .She says her father did it and I guess I will watch Dan Gryder's show again at some point but he has really put Richard back on the map.  I will admit that EU's boy, Sheridan, does also have a good resemblance to the composite sketch, but i think McCoy is still my pick.


@DBfan57

Richard McCoy looks absolutely nothing like ANY of the sketches. The sketches don't meant the world, typically, but to me, they kind of do. Let's get one thing straight:

Sheridan Peterson looks absolutely nothing like ANY of the sketches. McCoy doesn't, either.

Why do "suspect people" (people who have a commonly debated suspect as the hijacker) pick and choose what facts to pay attention to, and which to utterly ignore? Honest question, I'm not being rude.

For the billionth time, McCoy was immediately rejected by all on the flight who assisted in compiling the sketches. Not only that,

DARK/DARK COMPLEXION, SWARTHY, OLIVE SKIN, LATIN/LATIN AMERICAN APPEARING, BROWN EYES, BLACK OR DARK BROWN HAIR COMBED BACK.

Do you think LDS Utah, pale white skin blue-eyed, balding (or completely bald in Peterson's case) Rich McCoy would EVER be confused for being LATIN American? Would anyone ever see a Utah Mormon with white skin, sandy blond hair and blue/green eyes and wonder "Gee, I wonder what Latin American country he comes from?"

So. He was unequivocally rejected by everyone who saw Cooper, including Mucklow, who was sharp as a tack and chatted the man up for four freaking hours, was thoroughly investigated by the FBI and of course, dismissed as being Cooper by them, his crime and general demeanor is absurdly different, *and* he looks absolutely nothing like any sketch?

How much more air tight could it possibly be that Richard McCoy is simply hijacker Richard McCoy and nobody else (James Johnson I guess). How much would it take to finally put this to bed? The FBI thoroughly investigating him and saying decisively, "hey, it's not him." Would that change anything? Because they did that already, 50 years ago and then about ten years ago. Maybe a third time would get it to sink, perhaps not.

I think what frustrates me the most with these things, people stuck on easily dismissed, thoroughly investigated and rules out suspects is the level of inherent arrogance it takes to keep bringing them up and saying things like "I doubt the eyewitnesses," or bending whatever narrative to fit whatever you need it to in order for your suspect to be the guy.

How unabashedly arrogant to just dismiss the years of work everyone else has done, including dozens of old FBI agents AND the people on the plane with the guy!!

Are you kidding me? So they're ALL wrong, right? All of the FBI agents, all the people alive who ever saw this guy Cooper, are all wrong and you, you are right?

On what grounds? What evidence do you have? The burden of proof is on the one making the assertion, not the person refuting the claim. Proving it does NOT mean  hatting with some random people 50+ years later and talking about "what ole uncle Gherkins did by the barn back in nun-tain sebbendy wun." Gimme a break, man. I don't care what the guys family says unless they've got some of those twenty dollar bills handy or maybe the toupe he would have had to have worn on 24 Nov 71.


Cheers

McCoy and Sheridan DO look very similar to the FBI artist sketch's.  And many have said that.  Why do you not think McCoy did not disguise himself like he did in the Denver/LA 855 hijacking?  Mucklow didnot see him without the sunglass's either. Flo did.  Oh, what a real strong witness she is!!! LOL.  like that FBI agent was 007.  The Reno FBI messed things up according to Callum.  And Callum is no idiot.  Where are you getting the hispanic thing?  Olive skin?  I have not hear him being called hispanic before.  Not really.  Ill stop at that for now.  I do not think you can rule Richard out.
 

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5034 on: June 30, 2022, 12:51:28 PM »
Hispanic? That's speculation on my part if I indeed said that. I am saying confidently is that the guy was "Latin American or possibly confused as being Latin american." Why? Because every witness, including the ticketing agent, said "dark complexion," or "appeared Latin American." That's a big clue. These are people in Mucklow's case who spent hours with the guy. Larry Carr, who before ever handling the case thought it be McCoy, stated the eyewitnesses "immediately dismissed McCoy," continuing to state "they took one glance and said "nope, not him ." Carr then realized oh, it's actually not Richard McCoy. But I mean, what do two generations of FBI agents and the people who actually saw the man for hours know? Right? I'm sure they were all wrong, all hundred or so of them (decades of case agents all the eyewitnesses).

Larry Carr also stated "the flight attendants we're asked if the man was wearing any make up or any kind of disguise," to which they replied "No." This was all in a recent interview with Carr, available on YouTube.

Larry Carr had an impeccable, decades long career in the FBI. In law enforcement for decades. By claiming we can't dismiss McCoy, we are saying the best detective agency in the world is totally wrong and has been wrong for decades, and also that eyewitnesses do not matter at all, and that they are all wrong, and that's it's actually some random amateur detective who is correct, not 50 years of detectives. Why would we believe Carr or all the rest are wrong? What evidence exists pointing to McCoy? Because he did something similar? Because it's convenient for an old, long ago dismissed suspect? I just don't get the logic. We rule people out, it's just that simple. Why? So there can be clearly defined parameters for investigations and so we have something to work from. Of we just randomly, with zero evidence, dismiss decades of FBI work, what are we even doing here?

FBI/Eyewitnesses= McCoy is not Cooper.



Good enough for me, next.

On a personal note, I see zero resemblance to the artist rendering. Zero. Also, Peterson has been definitively eliminated, I believe. Besides, he was a Norwood 6 baldy and had blue eyes. Again, if we are willing to simply discard all the eyewitness testimony, what are we doing?


All that said, you're free to believe whatever you like. Don't allow me to stand in your way (you're in the Cooper universe so surely you will not). It's fun grappling over these same issues all the time, kind of. Sidenote, I'm in Washougal working today, I'll let you know if I see a parachute.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2022, 01:25:28 PM by JimmyCalhoun1991 »
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5035 on: June 30, 2022, 01:59:07 PM »
Most witnesses stated dark, swarthy, latin and or american indian complexion or features.  There were some witnesses who just said white dude and didn't go beyond that...but I would give much more weight to the stewardesses and maybe Bill Mitchell.

But when it comes to the swarthy description alone, could be anyone from the Mediterranean also. I'm married to a Sicilian...they qualify in this category as well, among others...lol. 

But for the purposes of this discussion, chances are we can probably pass on folks from England, Ireland and Scotland  -- unless they produce a $20 bill or parachute.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5036 on: July 01, 2022, 07:52:01 AM »
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Don Burnworth was an interesting guy. For those of us who had the pleasure of chatting with him, he was a delight.

His personal life was a train wreck at times, but he a helluva pilot.

Yo, Bruce, did he tell you about his ex-wife being a psychic? That's a little tidbit I found in the ole paper archives. Burnworth is interesting. I have to assume the FBI investigated him and found reason to eliminate him, but boy he looks a lot like that composite B rendering, and boy, he sure fits the original psychological profile done for the "In search of..." Leonard Nimoy documentary. At the time of the hijacking, Burnworth was a bitter "ex commercial" pilot, etcetera.

I think Cooper probably was a bitter former pilot or airline employee, though I'm hardly unique in this belief.

No, Don said a LOT about his ex, Bernice, but I don't recall him claiming she was psychic. Psychotic, maybe, but not skilled in the paranormal.

In 1971, Don Burnworth was not bitter. Maybe in 1972 when UAL fired him, or when Bernice got him locked up for eight days in the San Mateo hoosgah. Everyone, including the FBI, agrees Don was a delightful match to the composite sketches, but the FBI was apparently satisfied that he was not DBC since they let him go after interrogating him. Don claimed they still harbored some doubts, though and placed a mole in his cell to hear if Don spilled the beans during a quiet moment.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5037 on: July 02, 2022, 07:19:51 AM »
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Hispanic? That's speculation on my part if I indeed said that. I am saying confidently is that the guy was "Latin American or possibly confused as being Latin american." Why? Because every witness, including the ticketing agent, said "dark complexion," or "appeared Latin American." That's a big clue. These are people in Mucklow's case who spent hours with the guy. Larry Carr, who before ever handling the case thought it be McCoy, stated the eyewitnesses "immediately dismissed McCoy," continuing to state "they took one glance and said "nope, not him ." Carr then realized oh, it's actually not Richard McCoy. But I mean, what do two generations of FBI agents and the people who actually saw the man for hours know? Right? I'm sure they were all wrong, all hundred or so of them (decades of case agents all the eyewitnesses).

Larry Carr also stated "the flight attendants we're asked if the man was wearing any make up or any kind of disguise," to which they replied "No." This was all in a recent interview with Carr, available on YouTube.

Larry Carr had an impeccable, decades long career in the FBI. In law enforcement for decades. By claiming we can't dismiss McCoy, we are saying the best detective agency in the world is totally wrong and has been wrong for decades, and also that eyewitnesses do not matter at all, and that they are all wrong, and that's it's actually some random amateur detective who is correct, not 50 years of detectives. Why would we believe Carr or all the rest are wrong? What evidence exists pointing to McCoy? Because he did something similar? Because it's convenient for an old, long ago dismissed suspect? I just don't get the logic. We rule people out, it's just that simple. Why? So there can be clearly defined parameters for investigations and so we have something to work from. Of we just randomly, with zero evidence, dismiss decades of FBI work, what are we even doing here?

FBI/Eyewitnesses= McCoy is not Cooper.



Good enough for me, next.

On a personal note, I see zero resemblance to the artist rendering. Zero. Also, Peterson has been definitively eliminated, I believe. Besides, he was a Norwood 6 baldy and had blue eyes. Again, if we are willing to simply discard all the eyewitness testimony, what are we doing?


All that said, you're free to believe whatever you like. Don't allow me to stand in your way (you're in the Cooper universe so surely you will not). It's fun grappling over these same issues all the time, kind of. Sidenote, I'm in Washougal working today, I'll let you know if I see a parachute.
You want to hang your hat on eye witness's?  Do you?  What about Richard McCoy's family immediately identifying the tie and the pearl clip as Richards?  What about that?   And Tina never saw him well without the sun glass's.  At least not after they knew he was a skyjacker.  Flo is a horrible witness who wants nothing to do with any  of this. Im going to toss her testimony to the win.  One thing I will say for Ulis's fav suspect, he looks very much like the sketch.  Sheridan.  McCoy had the toughness and training to make it out of those woods regardless of weather as he was former Green Beret. That counts for something.  So I will just stick with the tie for now.  You certainly are not going to use Himelbach are you?  LOL.  What a joke.  And the Reno FBI is not the LA or NY FBI.  Jurisdictions MATTER.   They were like Mayberry RFD
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5038 on: July 02, 2022, 10:09:49 AM »
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Hispanic? That's speculation on my part if I indeed said that. I am saying confidently is that the guy was "Latin American or possibly confused as being Latin american." Why? Because every witness, including the ticketing agent, said "dark complexion," or "appeared Latin American." That's a big clue. These are people in Mucklow's case who spent hours with the guy. Larry Carr, who before ever handling the case thought it be McCoy, stated the eyewitnesses "immediately dismissed McCoy," continuing to state "they took one glance and said "nope, not him ." Carr then realized oh, it's actually not Richard McCoy. But I mean, what do two generations of FBI agents and the people who actually saw the man for hours know? Right? I'm sure they were all wrong, all hundred or so of them (decades of case agents all the eyewitnesses).

Larry Carr also stated "the flight attendants we're asked if the man was wearing any make up or any kind of disguise," to which they replied "No." This was all in a recent interview with Carr, available on YouTube.

Larry Carr had an impeccable, decades long career in the FBI. In law enforcement for decades. By claiming we can't dismiss McCoy, we are saying the best detective agency in the world is totally wrong and has been wrong for decades, and also that eyewitnesses do not matter at all, and that they are all wrong, and that's it's actually some random amateur detective who is correct, not 50 years of detectives. Why would we believe Carr or all the rest are wrong? What evidence exists pointing to McCoy? Because he did something similar? Because it's convenient for an old, long ago dismissed suspect? I just don't get the logic. We rule people out, it's just that simple. Why? So there can be clearly defined parameters for investigations and so we have something to work from. Of we just randomly, with zero evidence, dismiss decades of FBI work, what are we even doing here?

FBI/Eyewitnesses= McCoy is not Cooper.



Good enough for me, next.

On a personal note, I see zero resemblance to the artist rendering. Zero. Also, Peterson has been definitively eliminated, I believe. Besides, he was a Norwood 6 baldy and had blue eyes. Again, if we are willing to simply discard all the eyewitness testimony, what are we doing?


All that said, you're free to believe whatever you like. Don't allow me to stand in your way (you're in the Cooper universe so surely you will not). It's fun grappling over these same issues all the time, kind of. Sidenote, I'm in Washougal working today, I'll let you know if I see a parachute.
You want to hang your hat on eye witness's?  Do you?  What about Richard McCoy's family immediately identifying the tie and the pearl clip as Richards?  What about that?   And Tina never saw him well without the sun glass's.  At least not after they knew he was a skyjacker.  Flo is a horrible witness who wants nothing to do with any  of this. Im going to toss her testimony to the win.  One thing I will say for Ulis's fav suspect, he looks very much like the sketch.  Sheridan.  McCoy had the toughness and training to make it out of those woods regardless of weather as he was former Green Beret. That counts for something.  So I will just stick with the tie for now.  You certainly are not going to use Himelbach are you?  LOL.  What a joke.  And the Reno FBI is not the LA or NY FBI.  Jurisdictions MATTER.   They were like Mayberry RFD

Ullis no longer believes Sheridan to be Cooper. He moved off of his suspect once he realized it wasn't him. That's rare in the vortex (both are rare, moving on from a suspect, and admitting you were wrong about a suspect).

Tina was with Cooper for several hours. Stood beside him. Put Coopers height at a few inches taller than her, while she herself was the same height, maybe even slightly taller than McCoy. Try as you may, you simply cannot disregard the description of the person who spent hours with the guy.

 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #5039 on: July 02, 2022, 02:56:04 PM »
The sketch is a sketch, not a photo.

The olive complexion and latin decent has been known since day one. sketches will not show these features and gives another reason not to rely heavily on the sketch. too many treat it as a photo.

Bobby Blevins claims a witness spotted the tie clip as belonging to Kenny Christensen. millions of those clips were floating around in the 50's, up to the 80's. million wore ties, and clip on ties, some still do.

Going against witnesses is never a good thing unless faults can be found. The actions of Flo today are not what they were the first couple of years. some of these witnesses have had enough and wish to move on from this case. the first couple years Flo was more worried Cooper was going to come after her, causing her to look under her car for a bomb. I don't see evidence to rule her out because she wants nothing to do with the case today, at least, what she has said in the past.

They all ruled McCoy out, it's that simple. no makeup will change this. he put the makeup on before boarding 305, but waited till he was on the plane the second time, do you know why? it was obvious he was covering his appearance and not trying to look like someone else. it was to distract and would of caused problems had he tried to board the plane looking like he was hiding his identity.

Other problems I see is the ability to travel in time. many use today's knowledge or tactics vs what was done in the 70's. things were done completely different vs today and people tend to mix the two as one. all of law enforcement would be considered Mayberry RFD compared to how crime scenes are handled today.

I'm confident Tina could tell if someone was slightly shorter or taller than herself..
« Last Edit: July 02, 2022, 04:40:01 PM by Shutter »
 
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