Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 921795 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8115 on: June 29, 2021, 06:37:55 AM »
The main focus here is the building collapse in Miami. very sad situation.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8116 on: June 29, 2021, 03:19:18 PM »
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Thank you, Robert. Maybe I can get a little funding from the feds for bridge repair in that Infrastructure Deal, eh?

But the question is still on the table: What did the FBI do well, and what didn't it do well in its Norjak investigation.

Georger is clearly unable to answer in any cogent manner.

Anyone else willing to give it a go?
Clearly, the FBI made many errors. That's understandable for a large, unwieldy government agency dealing with a complex and unprecedented crime.

The issue is the difference between incompetence and malicious intent. You seem to imply, if not outright declare, that the FBI intentionally obfuscated this investigation and conspired to protect the perpetrator(s). That is a bold stance that requires a much higher burden of proof than mere institutional incompetence. 
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8117 on: June 29, 2021, 11:41:54 PM »
Ground temps in the PNW reached 145 degrees:

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Add this to the fact that based upon analysis of redwood tree rings, the last 22 years have been the driest in the western USA in thousands of years.

 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8118 on: June 30, 2021, 12:34:55 AM »
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All time heat records are being set here in Washington and Oregon ! It’s Noon here and temperature is already at 105 and predicted to hit 113. Our Air Conditioner went out and repairman was out this morning. The cause apparently was a 31/2 inch salamander who got fried while shorting out a key part !

This was the hottest day I've ever seen. Nuclear-level intensity. Locally, we hit 103 in Eatonville, but Puyallup - just north of here - posted 110. A bigger problem is the smoke is beginning to come in. Not sure where the fires are, but the western slopes of the Cascades are under extreme fire alerts.

I'm staying at my mom's house in Puyallup.  It definitely hit 100.  It felt like being in a dryer.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8119 on: June 30, 2021, 04:32:20 AM »
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Clearly, the FBI made many errors. That's understandable for a large, unwieldy government agency dealing with a complex and unprecedented crime.

The issue is the difference between incompetence and malicious intent. You seem to imply, if not outright declare, that the FBI intentionally obfuscated this investigation and conspired to protect the perpetrator(s). That is a bold stance that requires a much higher burden of proof than mere institutional incompetence.

I'm not intentionally implying anything, Chaucer. Rather, I am showing the mix of organizational behaviors. There was some incompetence, some bureaucratic turgidity, a noticeable lack of critical thinking, and perhaps some malfeasance.

Some issues present several of those dynamics at one gulp. Take the cigarette butts. Perhaps their loss can be attributed to the notion that the FBI Crime Lab thought there was no further use for them - I chalk that up to a lack of critical thinking on the part of the lab tech who wrote that memo suggesting the butts could be destroyed. Then the case agent Charlie Farrell deserves some blame for NOT insisting that the cigs get preserved AND delivered (finally) to Seattle instead of residing in Las Vegas. Then perhaps there is an element of cover-up since no one has gone looking for the cigs - as far as we know. That could be an intentional act to protect a suspect, or an intentional act to protect lousy cops from institutional reprimands.

Chaucer, I agree, the charge that the FBI intentionally participated in a Norjak cover-up is an extraordinary accusation and would require a very high level of proof. I am not suggesting that here. Rather, I am suggesting that it might be a partial explanation for the many inconsistencies and bad police work in the FBI's investigation.

For me, the most egregious finding is the loss of the larger shards in those Plasticine envelopes from the T-Bar recovery operation. To date, I have not heard one single plausible suggestion on how that happened. Ralph Himmelsbach refused to answer this when I asked, and sent Jerry Thomas to tell me that everything found at T-Bar was sent to Seattle. Compounding the problem, the case agent at the time, Ron Nichols, refuses to address this issue and continues to stonewall me, both at his Seattle home and down in Palm Desert. In fact, Nichols has never spoken to a single journalist, not even GG. Nichols won't even talk to Galen Cook, and he's generally beloved at the FBI.

When I drill down into the nitty-gritty of Cooper, it seems that every outstanding issue has problematic responses from the FBI. Take the flight path - no one from the Bureau talked to Cliff Ammerman. Take the ground search - did it really take two days to get a team together and enter the woods at Amboy? Take the money find at T-Bar. When I asked Dorwin if he, as the new case agent for Cooper in Portland, ever follow up and comb the riverbanks for more money or talk to fishermen and home owners on the Columbia, he said, "No."

Currently, who in the FBI has followed-up on Tom Kaye's findings over the past ten-plus years - the titanium, the rare earth minerals, and now the diatoms. Whenever I asked Ayn Dietrich-Williams - the PIO during these years - what her Cooper people were doing with Tom's contributions, I got the vaguest of "We're evaluating all the pieces of evidence that come to our attention...." And yet she was very happy to tell the world that Uncle LD was the "most promising suspect" with nothing more than a cockamamie story from an Oklahoma undercover FBI guy who couldn't even find Lynn's driver's license.

Bottom Line: How does one best characterize all of this? It's a mish-mash, I say.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 04:33:20 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8120 on: June 30, 2021, 04:39:30 AM »
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I'm staying at my mom's house in Puyallup.  It definitely hit 100.  It felt like being in a dryer.

As I was driving - with A/C on full blast - to Alder Lake yesterday to go swimming, I heard on the radio that it was 110 in Puyallup in the late afternoon. Quite a trip to be swimming in a lake and looking up and seeing snow on Mount Rainier.

Mark, next time you're in Puyallup, give me a call. We'll get a beer.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 04:40:38 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8121 on: June 30, 2021, 03:13:22 PM »
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Clearly, the FBI made many errors. That's understandable for a large, unwieldy government agency dealing with a complex and unprecedented crime.

The issue is the difference between incompetence and malicious intent. You seem to imply, if not outright declare, that the FBI intentionally obfuscated this investigation and conspired to protect the perpetrator(s). That is a bold stance that requires a much higher burden of proof than mere institutional incompetence.

I'm not intentionally implying anything, Chaucer. Rather, I am showing the mix of organizational behaviors. There was some incompetence, some bureaucratic turgidity, a noticeable lack of critical thinking, and perhaps some malfeasance.

Some issues present several of those dynamics at one gulp. Take the cigarette butts. Perhaps their loss can be attributed to the notion that the FBI Crime Lab thought there was no further use for them - I chalk that up to a lack of critical thinking on the part of the lab tech who wrote that memo suggesting the butts could be destroyed. Then the case agent Charlie Farrell deserves some blame for NOT insisting that the cigs get preserved AND delivered (finally) to Seattle instead of residing in Las Vegas. Then perhaps there is an element of cover-up since no one has gone looking for the cigs - as far as we know. That could be an intentional act to protect a suspect, or an intentional act to protect lousy cops from institutional reprimands.

Chaucer, I agree, the charge that the FBI intentionally participated in a Norjak cover-up is an extraordinary accusation and would require a very high level of proof. I am not suggesting that here. Rather, I am suggesting that it might be a partial explanation for the many inconsistencies and bad police work in the FBI's investigation.

For me, the most egregious finding is the loss of the larger shards in those Plasticine envelopes from the T-Bar recovery operation. To date, I have not heard one single plausible suggestion on how that happened. Ralph Himmelsbach refused to answer this when I asked, and sent Jerry Thomas to tell me that everything found at T-Bar was sent to Seattle. Compounding the problem, the case agent at the time, Ron Nichols, refuses to address this issue and continues to stonewall me, both at his Seattle home and down in Palm Desert. In fact, Nichols has never spoken to a single journalist, not even GG. Nichols won't even talk to Galen Cook, and he's generally beloved at the FBI.

When I drill down into the nitty-gritty of Cooper, it seems that every outstanding issue has problematic responses from the FBI. Take the flight path - no one from the Bureau talked to Cliff Ammerman. Take the ground search - did it really take two days to get a team together and enter the woods at Amboy? Take the money find at T-Bar. When I asked Dorwin if he, as the new case agent for Cooper in Portland, ever follow up and comb the riverbanks for more money or talk to fishermen and home owners on the Columbia, he said, "No."

Currently, who in the FBI has followed-up on Tom Kaye's findings over the past ten-plus years - the titanium, the rare earth minerals, and now the diatoms. Whenever I asked Ayn Dietrich-Williams - the PIO during these years - what her Cooper people were doing with Tom's contributions, I got the vaguest of "We're evaluating all the pieces of evidence that come to our attention...." And yet she was very happy to tell the world that Uncle LD was the "most promising suspect" with nothing more than a cockamamie story from an Oklahoma undercover FBI guy who couldn't even find Lynn's driver's license.

Bottom Line: How does one best characterize all of this? It's a mish-mash, I say.

Thanks for your personal report and disappointment that the FBI did not put you in charge of the Cooper case, or at least make you their Press Agent/Investigator in charge of the Cooper case. Had the FBI taken that extraordinary route I am sure the Cooper case would have turned out better or even been solved - with you in charge of everything and everyone!  ;)

What is left to be said? There are craters on the Moon. It should be smooth and unblemished - a perfect sphere! It's an imperfect Universe who you were not put in charge of. The Universe has been spinning its wheels in confusion and peril  ever since to the disappointment of Sentient creatures everywhere! Next time the Divine One will do better ?  Assuming that your accounting of things is correct ?

 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 03:33:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8122 on: July 12, 2021, 08:23:53 PM »
I apologize Eric. I was wrong. I am sorry it got personal. It was never intended to. I hope the misunderstanding didn't cause any negativity towards CC2021. I think you are doing a great job with that! I especially like the choice of Darren. He seems like a natural for the job. If I can help in any way let me know. Sorry for all this misunderstanding. My fault! Maybe you will let me buy you a burger and a beer 🍺 someday while we laugh about all this?
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8123 on: July 12, 2021, 08:47:00 PM »
It occurs to me that I probably should apologize to Shutter as well. Sorry Shutter! As Georger said, enough of the drama, back to working it.
 

Online georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8124 on: July 12, 2021, 11:18:34 PM »
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It occurs to me that I probably should apologize to Shutter as well. Sorry Shutter! As Georger said, enough of the drama, back to working it.

Oh God I hope the Bucks win! . . .  :rofl:
 

Offline Kari

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User 377 BRUCE ADVISED WE SHOULD BE GETTING IN TOUCH
« Reply #8125 on: July 13, 2021, 03:48:38 AM »
To 377 ..... After a phone conversation with Bruce this evening Bruce suggested we should be speaking with you. If you would kindly get in touch with us I think you will be interested in what we have to say..... Kari
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8126 on: July 13, 2021, 03:08:03 PM »
Just to clarify, Kari, what I am suggesting is that you contact 377 so that 377 can advise your DB Cooper suspect/ friend AND you, so y'all might know better his legal predicament if you - and he - go public.

Also, please address your "homework" that I assigned you! We'll need answers to the following:

1. How did your friend know the 727 could be flown with the aft stairs down, along with all the special metrics necessary for a safe exit?
2. How did the money end up at Tina Bar?
3. Details on what happened after he left the plane.
4. Details from "Jesse" on how he assisted, where, and when.
5. What happened to the money and parachute? Are any remnants still available? If not, why not?
6. How did your friend get to PDX on 11. 24. 71?
7. A full physical work-up is needed: height, weight, hair color, eyes, DNA, fingerprint samples, etc.
8. Name of police officer and department that you gave the pix and info to, so that we can corroborate that angle of your story.

As always, if your friend and Jesse want to go ahead with disclosure, you will have to agree also on whether to monetize it. I strongly suggest that you contact an entertainment lawyer for their advice. Remember, Hollywood plays a very harsh game.
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8127 on: July 13, 2021, 08:11:07 PM »
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Just to clarify, Kari, what I am suggesting is that you contact 377 so that 377 can advise your DB Cooper suspect/ friend AND you, so y'all might know better his legal predicament if you - and he - go public.

Also, please address your "homework" that I assigned you! We'll need answers to the following:

1. How did your friend know the 727 could be flown with the aft stairs down, along with all the special metrics necessary for a safe exit?
2. How did the money end up at Tina Bar?
3. Details on what happened after he left the plane.
4. Details from "Jesse" on how he assisted, where, and when.
5. What happened to the money and parachute? Are any remnants still available? If not, why not?
6. How did your friend get to PDX on 11. 24. 71?
7. A full physical work-up is needed: height, weight, hair color, eyes, DNA, fingerprint samples, etc.
8. Name of police officer and department that you gave the pix and info to, so that we can corroborate that angle of your story.

As always, if your friend and Jesse want to go ahead with disclosure, you will have to agree also on whether to monetize it. I strongly suggest that you contact an entertainment lawyer for their advice. Remember, Hollywood plays a very harsh game.

Bruce: Obviously I do not know what you guys discussed, but here are thoughts on two of the questions.

Question 1: Did the suspect state that they knew the 727 could fly with the stairs down?  I personally think that one scenario is that Cooper assumed that any plane of that size could fly with "appendages" so to say, like a bomber could fly with a bomb bay open, or engine parts hanging off, or a cargo plane could open a back door (like a C-130) and still fly.  Could he have just had some familiarity with aerodynamics?

Question 2: How did the money get to Tina Bar? Cooper may not even know how it got there.  The question I'd ask is: "Do you remember how some of the money could have become separated from the rest?"
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8128 on: July 14, 2021, 12:39:30 AM »
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Just to clarify, Kari, what I am suggesting is that you contact 377 so that 377 can advise your DB Cooper suspect/ friend AND you, so y'all might know better his legal predicament if you - and he - go public.

Also, please address your "homework" that I assigned you! We'll need answers to the following:

1. How did your friend know the 727 could be flown with the aft stairs down, along with all the special metrics necessary for a safe exit?
2. How did the money end up at Tina Bar?
3. Details on what happened after he left the plane.
4. Details from "Jesse" on how he assisted, where, and when.
5. What happened to the money and parachute? Are any remnants still available? If not, why not?
6. How did your friend get to PDX on 11. 24. 71?
7. A full physical work-up is needed: height, weight, hair color, eyes, DNA, fingerprint samples, etc.
8. Name of police officer and department that you gave the pix and info to, so that we can corroborate that angle of your story.

As always, if your friend and Jesse want to go ahead with disclosure, you will have to agree also on whether to monetize it. I strongly suggest that you contact an entertainment lawyer for their advice. Remember, Hollywood plays a very harsh game.

Bruce: Obviously I do not know what you guys discussed, but here are thoughts on two of the questions.

Question 1: Did the suspect state that they knew the 727 could fly with the stairs down?  I personally think that one scenario is that Cooper assumed that any plane of that size could fly with "appendages" so to say, like a bomber could fly with a bomb bay open, or engine parts hanging off, or a cargo plane could open a back door (like a C-130) and still fly.  Could he have just had some familiarity with aerodynamics?

Question 2: How did the money get to Tina Bar? Cooper may not even know how it got there.  The question I'd ask is: "Do you remember how some of the money could have become separated from the rest?"

Here is the answer to question 1:  Before takeoff in Seattle, Cooper insisted that the stairs be down according to some of the transcripts.  He and Rataczak argued over that point and finally Cooper agreed to leave the stairs up during the takeoff.  But Cooper immediately told Tina that he knew the 727 could takeoff with the stairs down.

In reality, the 727 could takeoff with the stairs down if they were not locked down.  If they were locked down, the aircraft would have to crush them to rotate to a takeoff attitude.  Basically, Cooper and Rataczak were talking about different things.  Rataczak was probably thinking about the aircraft rotation at lift off and Cooper, whether he knew it or not, just wanted them unlocked.   
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #8129 on: July 14, 2021, 12:45:15 AM »
Is RMB cashing in his chips over at DZ?