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Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

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6 (9.7%)
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4 (6.5%)
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2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
13 (21%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.6%)
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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 801859 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8130 on: December 04, 2022, 02:28:24 PM »
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During the weekend of Cooper Con, I had the distinct honor of being invited - along with some other Cooper researchers - to the residence of the grandson of Ralph Himmelsbach. He had inherited his grandfather's NORJACK files, and he felt they would be of more value to us than him.

There were many things of value in Himmelsbach's stash, but among them was the complete, intact, unredacted ARINC teletype from the night of the hijacking. I suspect that it is the original from the night of the hijacking. Regardless, it is a priceless piece of information.

Based on my analysis, the comparison of these ARINC teletype copies  with those previously released reveal NO redactions related to the Flight 305. Any inconsistencies can be explained by being communications not related to the Flight 305 hijacking. Thus, these complete, intact ARINC teletype do NOT indicate any attempt to conceal, cover up, or obfuscate on the part of the FBI, FAA, or NWA.

Here, in their entirety, are the complete ARINC teletype printouts from Ralph Himmelsbach's own files:

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I will have more interesting files forthcoming. Enjoy!

Chaucer, let me remind you once again that it was the WSHM digital group's analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts that led them to conclude that some were missing. 

Further, what you have just posted does not include the transcripts of the radio communications over the ARINC radio patch and has nothing to do with the Seattle Air Traffic Control radio transcripts where I am claiming that there are 19 segments that were redacted.

Do you have a copy of the WSHM digital group's analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts?  If not let me know, and I will contact them and see if they are willing to release it to you.  While I have a copy of this analysis, it is a WSHM work product and I would prefer to have their consent before passing it on to others. 

When you get a copy of it, you can argue directly with them and I will stay out of it until you, or someone comes up with a copy of the unredacted Seattle Air Traffic Control radio transcripts.  Then I will rejoin the fray.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8131 on: December 04, 2022, 06:54:12 PM »
I have seen the WSHM’s analysis.

That said, this is the ARINC TTY which is distinct from the ATC transcripts.

Either way, this demonstrates that there were no nefarious redactions in the ARINC TTY.

I agree with you that the transcription of the ARINC TTY would be an important find.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8132 on: December 06, 2022, 04:24:14 PM »
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I have seen the WSHM’s analysis.

That said, this is the ARINC TTY which is distinct from the ATC transcripts.

Either way, this demonstrates that there were no nefarious redactions in the ARINC TTY.

I agree with you that the transcription of the ARINC TTY would be an important find.

In your last sentence above, you actually mean the transcripts of the voice communications over the ARINC radio patch, correct?  This would include all communications over the ARINC radio link with the airliner and would include the communications that the ARINC personnel then summarized in their teletype transcripts.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8133 on: December 06, 2022, 08:49:16 PM »
I mean a transcription of all of the voice communications between the NWA ground personnel such as Al Lee and Paul Soderlind over the ARINC radio frequency until ~8:20 and the ARINC phone patch after ~8:20. We have the ARINC TTY up until 8:20 and nothing after. Obviously, the ARINC teletype was a very abbreviated summation of the actual comms. The full transcription of these comms exist (according the Larry Carr).

I think you'd agree that they would be invaluable.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8134 on: December 07, 2022, 02:07:33 AM »
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I mean a transcription of all of the voice communications between the NWA ground personnel such as Al Lee and Paul Soderlind over the ARINC radio frequency until ~8:20 and the ARINC phone patch after ~8:20. We have the ARINC TTY up until 8:20 and nothing after. Obviously, the ARINC teletype was a very abbreviated summation of the actual comms. The full transcription of these comms exist (according the Larry Carr).

I think you'd agree that they would be invaluable.

All communications are valuable if you understand who are involved in them.  Take a look at the 17-page document labeled "FBI Notes".  Two airliners are listed as assisting communications with NWA 305.  Do you see transcripts related to those communications anywhere?  And they would have to be through the ARINC system. 
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8135 on: December 09, 2022, 07:10:56 PM »
 New blog post from Dr. Edwards:

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Good analysis as always. I don’t agree with all of Dr. Edwards conclusions here. I think he puts the drop zone too far south.

That said, I think a deep dive into the comms from the ~8:20 time frame is now critical to determining when exactly Cooper exited the aircraft.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8136 on: December 09, 2022, 10:47:24 PM »
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New blog post from Dr. Edwards:

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Good analysis as always. I don’t agree with all of Dr. Edwards conclusions here. I think he puts the drop zone too far south.

That said, I think a deep dive into the comms from the ~8:20 time frame is now critical to determining when exactly Cooper exited the aircraft.

Chaucer, I must disagree with you.  Dr. Edwards doesn't put the drop zone anywhere.  He just points out that Paul Soderlind of NWA put the drop zone all over the place and that Soderlind then proceeds to disappear from the planet.  Dr. Edwards also asks the question as to why Soderlind goes missing in action and why his name is still redacted from the Cooper documents despite his death 22 years ago.

Perhaps a deep dive into Soderlind's involvement in the hijacking would be more appropriate.

The 8:11/8:12 PM PST period is the generally accepted time for Cooper jumping and the airliner was several miles north of Portland at that time.

Further, at 8:18 PM PST the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of the Portland (now Battleground) VORTAC.  And that puts it on the western edge of V-23 at that time.

The above times and locations are firm.  There is no problem with them.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #8137 on: December 29, 2022, 09:46:22 PM »
Recently, Shutter and myself had the opportunity to get on board an old 727. I was able to get on one myself back in October, but this one is a 727-100.

I have included a link to some photos I took.

Of note, I took some photos while seated in the Flight Engineer and co-pilot’s seats to provide visual reference of what they could see outside.

I also took photos of the cabin rate of climb indicator and the toggles used to change the radio frequencies. The pilot who gave us the tour told us that it was possible for the pilot to be on one frequency talking to someone and the co-pilot to be on another frequency talking to someone entirely different. In fact, the VHF NAV frequencies could be used to talk up to four people but that was highly unusual and didn’t work very well.

Here is think:

Recently, a long time contributor to the Vortex who is known online as Shutter and myself had the opportunity to get on board an old 727. I was able to get on one myself back in October, but this one is a 727-100 - the same model of Flight 305.

I have included a link to some photos I took.

Of note, I took some photos while seated in the Flight Engineer and co-pilot’s seats to provide visual reference of what they could see outside.

I also took photos of the cabin rate of climb indicator and the toggles used to change the radio frequencies. The pilot who gave us the tour told us that it was possible for the pilot to be on one frequency talking to someone and the co-pilot to be on another frequency talking to someone entirely different. In fact, the VHF NAV frequencies could be used to talk up to four people but that was highly unusual and didn’t work very well.

Here is think:

Recently, a long time contributor to the Vortex who is known online as Shutter and myself had the opportunity to get on board an old 727. I was able to get on one myself back in October, but this one is a 727-100 - the same model of Flight 305.

I have included a link to some photos I took.

Of note, I took some photos while seated in the Flight Engineer and co-pilot’s seats to provide visual reference of what they could see outside.

I also took photos of the cabin rate of climb indicator and the toggles used to change the radio frequencies. The pilot who gave us the tour told us that it was possible for the pilot to be on one frequency talking to someone and the co-pilot to be on another frequency talking to someone entirely different. In fact, the VHF NAV frequencies could be used to talk up to four people but that was highly unusual and didn’t work very well.

Here is think:

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Hopefully, Shutter will provide his insight.
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