Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (10%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.3%)
50% Cooper lived
13 (21.7%)
75% Cooper lived
13 (21.7%)
100 Cooper lived
22 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 755014 times)

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7875 on: June 23, 2022, 09:10:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The main problem I see with the known suspects is they have been on television, newspapers, websites, all over the place for witnesses to see them. not one has come forward to say it's him or really close.

I believe once they actually see a photo of Cooper it would trigger the memory. I remember seeing my old middle school year book I found on classmates.com..I had memory of a lot of them but it came flooding back once I seen there photo's again. you can forget a lot of details until it is presented right in front of you. a lot were already shot down in the first year after the crime by the crew.

Blevins loves to play the memory game to keep his suspect alive on the internet. I'm sure all three of the stews have come across something related to Kenny. Tina shot down Rackstraw and it appears to mean nothing?

I don't believe Cooper has surfaced in any of the suspects...

Really good points Shutter, it's not like the only time the key witnesses saw all of these suspects was when the FBI showed them a picture once.  Especially with the rise of the internet in the last 25 to 30 years, they would have had access to these images and maybe even searched them up on their own.  We can't know for sure, but I tend to agree, at least for some of the higher profile and longer tenured suspects.
 

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7876 on: June 23, 2022, 09:18:04 PM »
Speaking of suspects, back to the Colbert/Rackstraw investigation.  Colbert states that Bill Mitchell picked Rackstraw out of a lineup as the hijacker.  I believe Bill was at Coopercon and some here in the Vortex have met and spoke with him--has he been asked about this or addressed it ?
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
  • Thanked: 137 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7877 on: June 23, 2022, 09:38:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Every witness said it wasn't McCoy.

Flo, Tina, Alice, Mitchell

Every. Single. One.

During his hijacking, McCoy attempted to disguise himself, but every witness was later able to ID him.

That alone is a huge hurdle, and that's ignoring the detailed and thorough investigation of McCoy that cleared him of the Cooper hijacking.
Yet their composite drawing looked like McCoy.  And the FBI office in Reno made tons of mistakes.  Did not collect many items that could have been used for prints. FBI agent McCallum is a pretty smart cookie.  He is very convinced it was McCoy.  And one agent said that McCoy said something at his trial only  the real Cooper could have known, about the money  being lost.  The money lost was not found until years later. McCoy had the smarts to pull it off, was tough enough to pull it off regardless of being dressed wrong.  Former green beret.  Flo Shaffner is a horrible witness.  She has proven that. He was likely disguised before he got on the plane. How could they know?  And what about his relatives saying the tie and clip were Richards?  Just as damning as your stewardess testimony is non damning.

Obviously, similarity is in the eye of the beholder, to me the sketches look nothing like McCoy, especially regarding his ears, hairline, and posture. Let's not forget McCoy had a North Carolina (southern) accent and a lisp from his surgically repaired cleft pallet. It's more than just looks, McCoy couldn't even pretend to be Cooper.

Re: the fingerprints; The FBI literally removed the seat Cooper was sitting in, and had what they believed was a good palmprint from Cooper. McCoy's prints did not match any of the fingerprints collected.

SA Calume's book is actually talked about in the FBI files, and it's implied he wrote the book for money, as he should have been aware of all the evidence that effectively cleared McCoy of being Cooper.

I want to re-iterate that McCoy attempted to disguise himself during his hijacking, yet every witness was able to ID him. Cooper did not disguise himself, (unless his disguise was done by an Academy Award winning Hollywood makeup team), and every witness from 305 said McCoy was not Cooper.

As for McCoy saying Cooper lost the money, you'll have to give a source on that, I just paged through the interview chapters in the Calume/Rhodes book and didn't see that statement. Not that I trust that book... I've said this before, but there are some outright fabrications in the Calame/Rhodes book, and it can no longer be taken seriously as a source. We know this because the FBI documents are now available.

As for the tie, the FBI investigated McCoy's connection. They located two pictures of McCoy wearing his dark tie. We know this from the FBI releases. Most importantly, thanks to Tom Kaye, we know there are pin holes on Cooper's tie from the tie clip and a missing tie tack. The pictures showed that McCoy's tie did not have any clips or tacks.

And of course, we need to mention the exotic particles Tom found on the tie, particles that McCoy would not have been exposed to, and for which there is no source in Utah.
Forensically, McCoy's connection to the tie has been thoroughly debunked. It could not have come from McCoy.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bruce A. Smith

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • Thanked: 126 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7878 on: June 23, 2022, 10:28:44 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Speaking of suspects, back to the Colbert/Rackstraw investigation.  Colbert states that Bill Mitchell picked Rackstraw out of a lineup as the hijacker.  I believe Bill was at Coopercon and some here in the Vortex have met and spoke with him--has he been asked about this or addressed it ?

He's only telling half the story here. Mitchell pointed out Rackstraw out a group of 6 (I think) photos and said, "That's Richard McCoy". So in Culbert's slanted way of thinking, he said that meant that Mitchell was actually recognizing Rackstraw from the hijacking. Crazy.
 
The following users thanked this post: JAG

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9297
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7879 on: June 23, 2022, 10:30:08 PM »
Didn't he also complain that he couldn't really remember?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 10:40:01 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9297
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7880 on: June 23, 2022, 10:35:01 PM »
The memory of the witnesses are weak because they had no reason to recall him. this makes it tough on people like Mitchell, it was nobody to him until they told him who he was after the fact..
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • Thanked: 126 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7881 on: June 23, 2022, 10:41:16 PM »
From Colbert's website:

“I believe it is no coincidence that the witness mistakenly identified this man as another hijacker who had been captured and shown in the media, when in fact he had pointed to the picture of [Rackstraw]. It seems likely the current prime suspect was encoded in the witness’s memory accurately as the hijacker during events so many years before, and he subconsciously made his choice upon that basis. He reacted as if he had seen him before, and with the accompanying label of hijacker.”

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9297
  • Thanked: 1020 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7882 on: June 23, 2022, 10:48:35 PM »
If it was encoded in Mitchell's mind, he should of said "That's him, I remember now"

Doesn't sound like a triggered response at all...
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 10:49:31 PM by Shutter »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7883 on: June 23, 2022, 10:53:10 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
From Colbert's website:

“I believe it is no coincidence that the witness mistakenly identified this man as another hijacker who had been captured and shown in the media, when in fact he had pointed to the picture of [Rackstraw]. It seems likely the current prime suspect was encoded in the witness’s memory accurately as the hijacker during events so many years before, and he subconsciously made his choice upon that basis. He reacted as if he had seen him before, and with the accompanying label of hijacker.”




You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Thanks Parrot, I missed that on the web site, that is certainly a bit of a stretch that he is making.  I came across the attached pic on his other site You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 10:54:08 PM by JAG »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
  • Thanked: 137 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7884 on: June 23, 2022, 10:55:35 PM »
Rackstraw was also eliminated by a thorough FBI investigation. They spent a long time trying to get a legal order for Rackstraw's palm prints for a comparison, with a null result in the end. Witnesses also denied Rackstraw was Cooper. Beyond that, the FBI found out where Rackstraw was working before and after the hijacking (Radio Shack) and they talked to a roommate, presumably Rackstraw's girlfriend, who said he was never gone during a 6 month stretch that included the hijacking.
 
The following users thanked this post: WalterRaleigh

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7885 on: June 27, 2022, 05:24:04 PM »
Doesn't matter, you'll never convince anyone with logic or facts.

Rackstraw was a full two decades younger than Cooper's estimated age. He was just a few years older than the stewardesses. Wouldn't it be a bit insane if all three thought the guy was 20 years older than he really was? Does that make any sense whatsoever. So they interact with a guy for four hours, he's just a few years older than them, but they believe he's two decades older than them? Has that ever happened to anyone? Anyone in their life ever meet someone 25 and believe that they're actually 45? It's asinine. That's to say nothing of the fact that Bob Rackstraw was a GINGER. Reddish hair, reddish beard, pale white skin, greenish hazel eyes (or blue). Could a man with that description pass for Latin American? Would anyone ever see Bob Wesley Rackstraw and think "wow, where in Latin America does that guy come from?" Give me a freaking break, man.

Use the damned eyewitness descriptions. If they were completely invalid and never lead to suspects being arrested, why bother even take them down at all? Why would they take the time to do a half dozen sketches and hours of interviews to figure out what the guy looked like?

It's just ridiculous. We are decades removed from the incident, but go back and read what was written that night/the next days.

"Tall, thin, dark hair, dark brown eyes, Latin appearing, swarthy, dark complexion."

Sounds a lot like pale white Bob Rackstraw to me, with his five strands of sandy blonde hair swept over his bald ass head. Give me a break.
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, Robert99

Offline Jay Ritchie

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Thanked: 3 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7886 on: June 28, 2022, 07:20:43 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Interestingly the Geoffrey Gray account - whist it could be reconciled with the FBI statement - seems different enough that one may gain a different impression of Cooper. Would be good to hear Gray on a podcast. Did he interview Lysne separately for his book?
Interesting thing I just noticed.

It said that he "received instructions to the flight area".

Might be over-analysis, but if Cooper needed directions to the gate, then that might indicate a lack of familiarity with Portland airport.

Its easy to form a somewhat different guess as to Coopers background with a small piece of information isn't it?

I think most articles/ videos/ podcasts about Cooper like to give the impression of some criminal mastermind. In the FBI accounts he comes across as a gray man. I don't think this is as clear cut if Geoffrey Grays book is reliable. Gray reports that Cooper was remembered specifically by the gate guy - who Gray states immediately recalled a suspicious passenger.

Gray also reports that the authorities tracked down Derek Lysne after his shift and asked him if there was anyone suspicious who boarded the flight - he specifically mentions Cooper, recalls his name, and states that Cooper asked whether the plane was a 727.
 
The following users thanked this post: WalterRaleigh

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7887 on: June 29, 2022, 12:28:17 AM »
It is very interesting indeed. I feel like Cooper likely was some kind of laborer, as two individuals described him that way, notably Tina Mucklow (in later interviews, source being a 26 November 1988 Bellingham Herald article).

Prevailing media wisdom has always been to repeat the long held belief that Dan Cooper was some kind of technical wizard, classy business exec who pulled off a flawless caper and probably got away. The first time I read through the FBI files I specifically remember feeling like it was a different portrait entirely.

He made several mistakes. He fumbled around with the aft stairs. He was dressed in the way a laborer may imagine a business person would dress, clip-on tie and all. Pure speculation on my part, but what else is there to do with DB Cooper in 2022.

People have a natural inclination to give Cooper the benefit of the doubt on every detail, and I find it to be kind of maddening and counter productive. Him choosing the worse parachute and one that was seen shut suddenly becomes "no he chose the more rugged parachute and plfft, who the hell is Earl Cossey, anyway?" Rather than looking at it objectively and seeing that his parachute choice indicated a guy with limited parachuting experience.

Speculation here, but I now tend to believe that Cooper was not entirely unlike all the other hijackers of the day.  Desperate, against the ropes, a failure elsewhere in life, attention-seeking, vengeful, a bit narcissistic, thought he was the smartest guy in the room even when he wasn't, etcetera. Cooper went out of his way to make sure people thought he had things totally under control, because I think having that power was very important to him.

Cooper was definitely a cut above the average 1960s-70s hijackers, perhaps two cuts, even. However, he was not much more than that. What kind of guy threatens to murder people if he doesn't receive a bunch of stolen money? Would a "business exec" or successful career military man/intelligence operative really think 200k was worth all the trouble?
 

Offline dudeman17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
  • Thanked: 97 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7888 on: June 29, 2022, 04:29:54 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Him choosing the worse parachute and one that was seen shut suddenly becomes "no he chose the more rugged parachute and plfft, who the hell is Earl Cossey, anyway?" Rather than looking at it objectively and seeing that his parachute choice indicated a guy with limited parachuting experience.

I think you're a bit misinformed on this part. It sounds like he asked for two complete freefall rigs, mains and reserves. What they gave him for 'back' rigs were not mains, but two pilot emergency bailout rigs. That makes whatever front reserves they gave him irrelevant, because the bailout rigs do not have the D-rings to attach them. The reason they don't have the D-rings is because the bailout rigs ARE reserves. If one of the canopies was steerable over non, or if one was bigger, it might make it a slightly better choice. But if the two back rigs they gave him were indeed Hayden's two bailout rigs, then it was basically a coin toss over which one to take. There was not a 'bad choice' involved.
 
The following users thanked this post: WalterRaleigh

Offline JimmyCalhoun1991

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7889 on: June 29, 2022, 09:39:27 PM »
Really, he specified all that information on what chutes to bring aboard the plane? I could be misinformed/have forgot what is in the 302s. If it's not in the 302s or from a verified source, I haven't much interest.

Or is that just pure speculation? I've always read that he wanted "two front packs and two backpacks." Nothing more was specified. I've heard speculation about D rings and all that before. If they're (his demands about chutes and what he specifically said) in the 302s, please link them so I can refresh my memory. These days I only focus on what is black and white, printed in the 302s.