Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (10%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.3%)
50% Cooper lived
13 (21.7%)
75% Cooper lived
13 (21.7%)
100 Cooper lived
22 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 55

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 753466 times)

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • Thanked: 126 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7770 on: April 27, 2022, 08:50:27 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...  But it was not "spendable" right?  They only sold it as souvenir money?  Because of the fame of the case?


Nope. It was a soggy, compressed, dense mess of green paper with lots of funny numbers printed on it...

Not spendable, but worth a lot more than any 20 dollar bill I currently have in my pocket!
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4361
  • Thanked: 459 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7771 on: April 28, 2022, 04:38:57 PM »
Plus, you can get on TV if ya take it to Las Vegas and Pawn Stars.
 

Offline DBfan57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7772 on: April 29, 2022, 09:03:03 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...  But it was not "spendable" right?  They only sold it as souvenir money?  Because of the fame of the case?


Nope. It was a soggy, compressed, dense mess of green paper with lots of funny numbers printed on it...
Souvenir value only.  But quite a bit.  Not as much as the Zepruder film but a lucky day at the "beach", if you  call a river edge a beach.
 

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7773 on: May 13, 2022, 11:33:27 PM »
Scanning through Part 70 of the FBI, one interesting note, and as with many anecdotes in these 302s, you get a page or two of something and then it dies and you don't see the completion of the reports so to speak.  But for me, this is the first time I came across something where the FBI states they are tracking someone they believe is the hijacker.  Specifically, the are tracking the redacted individual to London Heathrow Airport where they think he is there to retrieve the ransom money.  This is August 1980 timeframe, so it is post Tena Bar.  So even though there are a lot of statements about "the hijacker dying when he jumped" during this time frame, here is the FBI thinking they have him flying to London ?

Anyway, clearly this was a nothingburger and lead to a dead end, but I thought it was interesting none the less to throw out there to the vortex....
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 11:36:09 PM by JAG »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, WalterRaleigh

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7774 on: May 14, 2022, 12:01:30 AM »
I figured I would post my RAW notes from Part 70.  I am a total amateur/hack, whatever you want to call it, but this is me skimming/scanning through Part 70 and just taking notes based on topics that I have read here on the forum and elsewhere.  It isn't some comprehensive thing, but if it happens to peak the interest of someone more knowledgeable or someone new to the case....then great, better than dying on my laptop -- I can't even explain why I do this lol -- CHEERS !

Part 70:
- Page 13, Cossey has not provided the serial numbers of the parachutes. (9/5/72)
- Page 51, description of the paper bag that Cooper was carrying from the bathroom.
- Page 75, Cossy describing the parachutes.
- Page 85, Interview with a parachutist from Elsinore, trying to determine if he is the man who spoke to one
of the managers about jumping out of an air plane.
- Page 94, 95, more about an individual who was at Elsinore asking about jumping from a 727.
- Page 147, some parachuting club put on a sky diving show where at the end 3 men jumped from a 727 at
20,000 feet.
- Page 163, FBI lab request for studying money and separating to determine exact amount.
- Page 168, lab result stating approximatley $5800.
- Page 309, memo describing how Seattle First National Bank packed and banded the money.  Money was put in
packets of $2000 each and banded with bands labeled as Seatle First National Bank, Federal Reserve or bands
of other banks.  Similar information on page 317.
- Page 322,323, discussion of a VOR transmitter and receiving device as a possibility that the hijacker could
have used to locate a specific area on the ground to jump over.
- Page 340, Remarks about McCoy as suspect July 1980.  It's kind of like the FBI is circling back from 1972
for some reason.
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, andrade1812, georger, WalterRaleigh

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7775 on: May 14, 2022, 05:24:34 PM »
more of pseudo morphism non gender specific FBI files .... related to money ................. maybe ........... maybe not! Could indicate some psycho-social conditioning endemic to FBI 302 writers of the era ?  Only Bruce Smith knows! Schedule a seance with Bruce soooooooooooon.     
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 05:27:56 PM by georger »
 

Offline JAG

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Thanked: 51 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7776 on: May 14, 2022, 08:22:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I figured I would post my RAW notes from Part 70.  I am a total amateur/hack, whatever you want to call it, but this is me skimming/scanning through Part 70 and just taking notes based on topics that I have read here on the forum and elsewhere.  It isn't some comprehensive thing, but if it happens to peak the interest of someone more knowledgeable or someone new to the case....then great, better than dying on my laptop -- I can't even explain why I do this lol -- CHEERS !

Part 70:
- Page 13, Cossey has not provided the serial numbers of the parachutes. (9/5/72)
- Page 51, description of the paper bag that Cooper was carrying from the bathroom.
- Page 75, Cossy describing the parachutes.
- Page 85, Interview with a parachutist from Elsinore, trying to determine if he is the man who spoke to one
of the managers about jumping out of an air plane.
- Page 94, 95, more about an individual who was at Elsinore asking about jumping from a 727.
- Page 147, some parachuting club put on a sky diving show where at the end 3 men jumped from a 727 at
20,000 feet.
- Page 163, FBI lab request for studying money and separating to determine exact amount.
- Page 168, lab result stating approximatley $5800.
- Page 309, memo describing how Seattle First National Bank packed and banded the money.  Money was put in
packets of $2000 each and banded with bands labeled as Seatle First National Bank, Federal Reserve or bands
of other banks.  Similar information on page 317.
- Page 322,323, discussion of a VOR transmitter and receiving device as a possibility that the hijacker could
have used to locate a specific area on the ground to jump over.
- Page 340, Remarks about McCoy as suspect July 1980.  It's kind of like the FBI is circling back from 1972
for some reason.

page 309 how the money given to Cooper was prepared.  This page is ambiguous as hell. Paper bank bands from Sea First, Fed Reserve, or "quite possibly" bands from other banks were used ......... but NO IDENTIFYING MARKS WERE ON THESE BANDS! dUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! 

This kind of crap is why people give up on the Cooper case and everyone in it!

Have a NICE DAYEEEEEEEEE.

Ckret was wrong and a  liar, the same for Georger, the same for Grandma Moses .............

No paper straps were seen because all paper straps had dissolved. All asteroid impact sphericals are a lie - it never happened! 
 

Lol, yes I read it the same way -- it was unclear and confusing.
 

Offline DBfan57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 371
  • Thanked: 20 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7777 on: May 19, 2022, 04:54:20 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A couple things DB Fan:

1. This forum goes through fallow periods. We're clearly in one at the moment.
2. So, who do you propose should get the money? The people who found it? The people who insured it? The FBI who asked to store the bills in case of an emergency and needed hard evidence to pursue their case? The US Taxpayers who underwrote the stockpiling?

I submit that giving a hefty share to the Ingrams did more to advance the case than any other option. If the Ingrams hadn't received their allotment, where would be right now? Do you think the FBI would test for diatoms? How about Global Indemnity - what have they done with their stash? Kept it on a shelf in the CEO's bedroom?

Well the only real value of the money is the souvenir value.  And that in itself has proven to be pretty significant.  I would not pay for that beat up money.  Yet I once learned in some class way back, that lets say a dollar bill is ripped?  If you can read the entire serial number its still good?  Is that true?  Does anyone know?  So in this case its pretty sketchy I guess?  It looks very bad. And its money that was put up for ransom purposes.  And since it was indeed used in a major crime, does that sort of diminish the value of it?  Do you think the corner store in your neighborhood would sell you  a candy bar with that "funny money"?  LOL. In the old days they would not take Canadian money here, but in Canada they would take ours and try and beat you on the exchange depending on the store. But now I have no idea what the exchange is, I know that its not a sweet deal like it was in the 70s.  I think we got about $5 on a $20 bill?   Ingram likely has made his money on this loot?  I try talking the old lady into buying gold.  Even in this nightmare post Covid world Gold is still a solid investment.  I personally want nothing to do with the stock market.

So what was the original intent on the rear stairs on that 727?  An emergency escape rout in case of a fire or something?  i wonder if they would ever bring it back, I mean now that they put everything through an X ray machine.  Its hard enough to get anything on the plane unless you check it in.  I was pretty surprised the ease that I checked in my pistol flying into Vegas and flying back to the East coast from San Fran.  My next mission is to try and fly my cat with me. I am not sure but I have heard you can get them on some flights.  And I am not putting my baby in cargo.  No way. Not unless I can be with him. But there might be some "pet flights" let's say at night on certain airlines. Anything to make a buck.  Having a cat in a carrier should not be that big a deal.  A dog that is barking constantly is.   Maybe we read someday, "what is that red stick Fido has in his mouth? "  Oh it's just a bomb.  My name is Dan Cooper.  Give me all your money
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4361
  • Thanked: 459 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7778 on: May 19, 2022, 01:29:47 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...So what was the original intent on the rear stairs on that 727?  An emergency escape rout in case of a fire or something?...


To facilitate loading and unloading of passengers in small, rural and regional airports without jetways. It also eliminated the need for mobile, external stair systems to be rolled up to each plane.
 
The following users thanked this post: nickyb233

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Thanked: 222 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7779 on: May 29, 2022, 05:04:43 PM »
I'd like to compile all of the evidence pointing toward DBC having a knowledge of the operation of the 727. I know it's been discussed in the past, but I'd like to try to get it all in one place.

I'll begin with a one. Please add to my list:

1. Knew the airstairs could be lowered in flight
“Completely unhinged”
 
The following users thanked this post: andrade1812, Darren

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
  • Thanked: 136 times
    • My Website
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7780 on: May 29, 2022, 08:07:32 PM »
15 degree indent flap setting (and knowing the 727 was degrees and not percent)

Knowing a flight plan could be filed from the air after takeoff

Knew where the emergency O2 was in the passenger cabin

Knew terminology for airstairs and phone system

He asked specifically if airplane was a 727

Knew about how long refueling should take.

Knew how to position refueling truck.

Was worried about the potential risk of marshals.

Contraindications:

Apparently did *not* know maximum range for his flight configuration

Did not know how to actually lower stairs.

Believed the cockpit could lower stairs in flight.

(I just realized that Cooper might have been aware of the airline protocols for hijackings, will have to look into that)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2022, 11:25:09 PM by andrade1812 »
 
The following users thanked this post: Parrotheadvol, nickyb233, Darren, fcastle866, Chaucer

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Thanked: 194 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7781 on: May 30, 2022, 02:13:15 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'd like to compile all of the evidence pointing toward DBC having a knowledge of the operation of the 727. I know it's been discussed in the past, but I'd like to try to get it all in one place.

I'll begin with a one. Please add to my list:

1. Knew the airstairs could be lowered in flight

To be a bit more precise, Cooper probably knew that the 727 had been flight-tested with the stairs lowered (but probably not locked down).  The 727 went into airline service in early 1964 and this was common knowledge by the summer of 1964 when an article in the British publication "Flight" so stated.  It is possible and/or probable that the FAA had required a flight test with the stairs floating in the free stream as part of the original certification tests.
 

Offline Robert99

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1679
  • Thanked: 194 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7782 on: May 30, 2022, 02:20:25 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
15 degree indent flap setting (and knowing the 727 was degrees and not percent)

Knowing a flight plan could be filed from the air after takeoff

Knew where the emergency O2 was in the passenger cabin

Knew terminology for airstairs and phone system

He asked specifically if airplane was a 727

Knew about how long refueling should take.

Knew how to position refueling truck.

Was worried about the potential risk of marshals.

Contraindications:

Apparently did *not* know maximum range for his flight configuration

Did not know how to actually lower stairs.

Believed the cockpit could lower stairs in flight.

(I just realized that Cooper might have been aware of the airline protocols for hijackings, will have to look into that)

The contraindications don't really mean very much.  If Cooper planned to jump early, the maximum range would not be important.  Remember that Cooper had a stewardess and three flight crew members onboard that did know how to lower the stairs.
 

Offline Jack

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7783 on: May 30, 2022, 07:33:51 AM »
""Did not know how to actually lower stairs.""

I think we should define this one some more.
Cooper did not know how to lower the stairs in a commercial civilian plane.
He requested that they release the stairs from the pilot's cabin.
This is how the 727's adapted for military use released their aft stairs.

This shows that Cooper's knowledge seems to come from personal military experience, or from personal military knowledge, or from a second hand military source.

Jack
 
The following users thanked this post: Robert99

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Thanked: 222 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7784 on: May 30, 2022, 10:55:46 AM »
Thanks for the great input. The next question would be:  what would put him in a position to know those details? Would a pilot know those things? An engineer? Or is that something one could find out from a manual?

As an aside, he was familiar with the Sea-Tac region from the air which would indicate he had flown over that area quite a bit.
“Completely unhinged”