Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (12.2%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (4.1%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
100 Cooper lived
18 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 496763 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6180 on: February 28, 2021, 03:54:49 AM »
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Sometimes "scotch and soda" but the most popular drink "C and Coke" or "C and C" which was Canada and Coke.

7 & 7 was the most popular drink when I turned 18 in NY and could drink. Had 13 of them one night. Epic. My boss showed no mercy the next day. Just smirked...
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6181 on: February 28, 2021, 08:25:51 AM »
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Sometimes "scotch and soda" but the most popular drink "C and Coke" or "C and C" which was Canada and Coke.

7 & 7 was the most popular drink when I turned 18 in NY and could drink. Had 13 of them one night. Epic. My boss showed no mercy the next day. Just smirked...

Yeah, most of us have been there.  It really is impressive that you were able to keep count of your drinks once  you were good an oiled up?  It was a very popular drink.  Usually Seagrams. 
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6182 on: February 28, 2021, 08:44:47 AM »
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Sounds perfectly plausible, EU. If he had bailed out when he intended (outskirts of Seattle), it would have given him the entire duration of the flight to Reno to escape. Moreover, had it not been for the pressure bump, the search area could have been anywhere from Washington to Nevada.

The fact that he jumped later than intended would have put him in very unfamiliar territory and made any escape many times more difficult. Instead of walking home into the suburbs of Sea-Tac, he had to hump it out in remote, rugged, rural Washington in a business suit and 25 lbs. of money. I think that would have made it virtually impossible for him to escape detection.

If he bails near SEA and it is detected LE can draw hundreds of people to a small search area very quickly and circle him - bailing later further south LE loses all advantage, just as it happened. 

Cooper's socalled INTENTIONS are irrelevant and impossible to know - its what he did that matters.  Intentions and thoughts (and impure thoughts) can only be guessed by performance/demonstration. Testing programs and psychometry can only measure and predict based on recording people's actual performance. We learned that thru testing conducted in WWI!     

That was the flaw in PLF's whole 'thru the lens of logic'. He makes assumptions which are untrue, unprovable, unknown, unknowable! PLF makes assumptions that only agree with himself!  :rofl:

Fact is:  nobody was reporting to ground control and LE  what Cooper was doing or not doing, or what it appeared he might be doing and his INTENTIONS ... after take off until about the time Tina came in to the cockpit. Cooper actually jumped shortly after this. Moreover, Cooper did not "prepare" for bailing immediately after takeoff, if by some guesswork you know his INTENTIONS. Cooper went through an orderly step-by-step procedure  ... 'and it looks as though he's getting ready to jump' ...   

Cooper did not perform as a person getting ready to perform a jump right after takeoff at SEA! Factually, he was not ready to jump immediately after takeoff; that had nothing to do with him not being given the backpack for the money or the delay due to fueling, as Flyjack contends. For one thing his plan relied on testing the stairs under stable flight conditions before bailing ... his communications with the cockpit just prior to jumping document that.     

I couldn't disagree more on a number of levels here. Reasoned assumptions and deductions along with attempting to ascertain intentions are necessary if you want to solve a case such as this.

Let me give a very basic example of this:

1) FACT: Cooper ordered and was delivered 200 grand.

2) ASSUMPTION: He wants to spend it.

3) THEREFORE: Let's look for him at various banks, casinos and other establishments.

Good luck finding DBC if you focus exclusively on what happened and ignore everything else.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6183 on: February 28, 2021, 02:43:09 PM »
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Sounds perfectly plausible, EU. If he had bailed out when he intended (outskirts of Seattle), it would have given him the entire duration of the flight to Reno to escape. Moreover, had it not been for the pressure bump, the search area could have been anywhere from Washington to Nevada.

The fact that he jumped later than intended would have put him in very unfamiliar territory and made any escape many times more difficult. Instead of walking home into the suburbs of Sea-Tac, he had to hump it out in remote, rugged, rural Washington in a business suit and 25 lbs. of money. I think that would have made it virtually impossible for him to escape detection.

If he bails near SEA and it is detected LE can draw hundreds of people to a small search area very quickly and circle him - bailing later further south LE loses all advantage, just as it happened. 

Cooper's socalled INTENTIONS are irrelevant and impossible to know - its what he did that matters.  Intentions and thoughts (and impure thoughts) can only be guessed by performance/demonstration. Testing programs and psychometry can only measure and predict based on recording people's actual performance. We learned that thru testing conducted in WWI!     

That was the flaw in PLF's whole 'thru the lens of logic'. He makes assumptions which are untrue, unprovable, unknown, unknowable! PLF makes assumptions that only agree with himself!  :rofl:

Fact is:  nobody was reporting to ground control and LE  what Cooper was doing or not doing, or what it appeared he might be doing and his INTENTIONS ... after take off until about the time Tina came in to the cockpit. Cooper actually jumped shortly after this. Moreover, Cooper did not "prepare" for bailing immediately after takeoff, if by some guesswork you know his INTENTIONS. Cooper went through an orderly step-by-step procedure  ... 'and it looks as though he's getting ready to jump' ...   

Cooper did not perform as a person getting ready to perform a jump right after takeoff at SEA! Factually, he was not ready to jump immediately after takeoff; that had nothing to do with him not being given the backpack for the money or the delay due to fueling, as Flyjack contends. For one thing his plan relied on testing the stairs under stable flight conditions before bailing ... his communications with the cockpit just prior to jumping document that.     

I couldn't disagree more on a number of levels here. Reasoned assumptions and deductions along with attempting to ascertain intentions are necessary if you want to solve a case such as this.

Let me give a very basic example of this:

1) FACT: Cooper ordered and was delivered 200 grand.

2) ASSUMPTION: He wants to spend it.

3) THEREFORE: Let's look for him at various banks, casinos and other establishments.

Good luck finding DBC if you focus exclusively on what happened and ignore everything else.

ASSUMPTION: He wants to spend it at Hardees.

He must find a Hardees.

He meets the founder Cliff Hardee at Tina Bar.

They bury the money and wait.

Fed up with waiting Cooper kills Hardee and runs off with his wife.

Have Tom Kaye test the Hardee family dna live on Tee Vee. Billions will tune in. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.     
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 03:42:46 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6184 on: February 28, 2021, 03:42:15 PM »
Georger, the insults are very tiring coming from you. perhaps you could join up with RMB. he does the same it's just a different style. he might even offer you a paid position..

The bottom line. if you don't have anything valuable to say...then move on to the next post..it's a bunch of "noise" we don't need here...

Shutter
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6185 on: February 28, 2021, 11:21:44 PM »
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Georger, the insults are very tiring coming from you. perhaps you could join up with RMB. he does the same it's just a different style. he might even offer you a paid position..

The bottom line. if you don't have anything valuable to say...then move on to the next post..it's a bunch of "noise" we don't need here...

Shutter

hmmmm ... interesting take and interpretation on what I wrote!  The point I am making, and was making, is people need to make their ASSUMPTIONS IN CAPS have some connexion to reality.  Especially if they are trying to say something of merit ? I assume the author posted for some reason other than idle play?

I  can always count on you to supply INTENTIONS AND ASSUMPTions I never intended or made!

You bring up Blevins again ... in some connexion to me!?   Why? 

I suggest you tear yourself away from your eternal war with Blevins .............. I told you that years ago. Its warping your perspective? Blevins doesnt give a %$%K what you think or say. To him its just a continuing joke. You just dont seem to grasp that fact. oh well to each his own ...........................

You always seem to be looking for a fight with someone ................ anyone.  Blevins is a fight you can never-ever possibly win!  It's like debating a possum.  Think about it!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 11:31:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6186 on: March 01, 2021, 01:00:49 AM »
You have had a fair share in running people off of this forum. people don't want to post due to your replies and smart ass remarks. in fact, several have joined and haven't commented due to the behavior coming from you. some looking in from the outside also remain there because of you. I've grown tired of the complaints against you.

This forum is going to start functioning as a research forum. you have to accept certain theories or idea's that come with researching anything. it doesn't mean that's exactly what happened. if we knew that, we wouldn't be here.

As for Blevins, you are correct. I often apologize for having to comment but sometimes he continues to post things that are completely wrong or skewed to fit his agenda. he has ran off a lot of people on the DZ. going over there is more counter productive and not worth the time getting caught up in an endless loop. at least his comments can be posted away from any Cooper related conversation and don't stop the discussion to deal with his rants. I don't look for any fights with anyone. I will confront problems, if you wish to call that picking a fight, personally, I don't think it does. I will also strongly disagree with certain things in regards to the case if you want to call that picking a fight. I think I show everyone the same respect on this board and will confront you when I don't agree with the way you are acting on this board. you have been warned numerous times about this and giving a mile of rope and it continues to be a problem. perhaps, I shouldn't of used Robert as a reference to you but you both run people off.

I believe you have a lot to offer with the knowledge you have. sure a lot of things are sometimes pointless and don't forward the case but they can still be discussed without having to worry about being shouted down or ridiculed. I can't please everyone. thinking out of the box with idea's can be crazy one's but worth a shot. I would like to see everyone on the same page. everyone tends to toss in a potshot here and there but nothing like what you do.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6187 on: March 01, 2021, 02:57:10 AM »
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You have had a fair share in running people off of this forum. people don't want to post due to your replies and smart ass remarks. in fact, several have joined and haven't commented due to the behavior coming from you. some looking in from the outside also remain there because of you. I've grown tired of the complaints against you.

This forum is going to start functioning as a research forum. you have to accept certain theories or idea's that come with researching anything. it doesn't mean that's exactly what happened. if we knew that, we wouldn't be here.

As for Blevins, you are correct. I often apologize for having to comment but sometimes he continues to post things that are completely wrong or skewed to fit his agenda. he has ran off a lot of people on the DZ. going over there is more counter productive and not worth the time getting caught up in an endless loop. at least his comments can be posted away from any Cooper related conversation and don't stop the discussion to deal with his rants. I don't look for any fights with anyone. I will confront problems, if you wish to call that picking a fight, personally, I don't think it does. I will also strongly disagree with certain things in regards to the case if you want to call that picking a fight. I think I show everyone the same respect on this board and will confront you when I don't agree with the way you are acting on this board. you have been warned numerous times about this and giving a mile of rope and it continues to be a problem. perhaps, I shouldn't of used Robert as a reference to you but you both run people off.

I believe you have a lot to offer with the knowledge you have. sure a lot of things are sometimes pointless and don't forward the case but they can still be discussed without having to worry about being shouted down or ridiculed. I can't please everyone. thinking out of the box with idea's can be crazy one's but worth a shot. I would like to see everyone on the same page. everyone tends to toss in a potshot here and there but nothing like what you do.

sounds fair and well said. Take care and lay off of Blevins. The only way to handle that guy is to ignore him completely. I told you that five years ago and it still stands. I hate to see you beating your ahead against that 'dead horse'. You have vastly more talents than to waste them on anything related to that guy. Thanks.

Get vaccinated! I have many friends etc in FL that are trying; talked to five of them last week asking for help - nothing I can do. The UP of Michigan (rural area) seems to be one of leaders - thousands with two shots already completed. I wasnt aware until of the UP's status until we checked stats on Friday. Their progress has been due to a low population plus fantastic county hospital organization setting up shot sites. In any event get on a list asap. I recommend the same for everyone....       
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 03:01:44 AM by georger »
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6188 on: March 01, 2021, 12:12:03 PM »
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Over on dz... Flyjack posted a copy of the drink "menu" that was offered to the passengers. It  includes the prices and different drinks that were offered. Pretty cool !! He also posted parts of a FBI 302 (at least what I believe is a 302) that states Cooper requested a "bourbon and seven-up. Thanks Fly!! Appreciate it.

The menu is definitely a cool find.  It lists a number of bourbons that were available, 6 in all.  Old Fitzgerald, Kentucky Tavern, Old Grand Dad, Walker's Deluxe, I.W. Harper, and Old Forrester.  If he said "Bourbon and 7 UP" I'm wondering if the stew asked "What kind of bourbon?"  Or did he have the menu in his hand?  Nothing in the 302s that I remember has the FBI dusting the menus for prints.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6189 on: March 01, 2021, 12:13:08 PM »
You can find airline menu's in Google search image's
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6190 on: March 01, 2021, 12:19:31 PM »
So he WAS asking for 7-Up and not club soda. Interesting.

Also, typically if you ask for “bourbon” the barkeep will automatically give you the bottom shelf stuff which in this case would probably be Old Fitz. Unless you specify the brand, you will get the cheap stuff.
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6191 on: March 02, 2021, 11:29:23 AM »
I wonder when they stopped making that comic book with Dan Cooper?  I wonder which stores it was sold in?  If it were only in French as I have heard reported, would it be mainly limited to Quebec or was it in Europe also?   If the old boy is linked to it he was likely very into it and likely frequented one of those stores.  I wonder if they had stopped it a long time ago would producing a new throwback copy be a way to “cast a line out?”  How many 90 plus year old men buy it?  Just a thought. If he were still alive is there any way to draw him out?  Or maybe he gave the money to someone close? 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6192 on: March 02, 2021, 11:49:34 AM »
Quote
Frankly the single greatest thing that the FBI could do is simply open the files up and give greater access to the evidence. After 50 years, why not?

I've said the same thing over the years..I'm wondering how big the chip is on the shoulders of the FBI today. they handed over the Alcatraz case to the U.S. Marshal's in the late 70's. it took them 2 years to give them all the files. If the story is true with Hayden getting his chute back they were about the same back in the 80's. from what I recasll reading, they were pretty nasty to him..

..
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 12:48:34 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6193 on: March 02, 2021, 03:52:30 PM »
The chip on the FBI shoulders?  Don't you wonder why they would not just grant immunity for the Alcatraz escapees to come forward now if they are alive?  If that letter was really from Clarence Anglin, saying he had terminal illness and was the  last survivor, it would only make sense for the arrogant FBI to give full immunity now.  But no. They are hell bent.  Chances are Frank Morris and John Anglin are now deceased. Hell, it was 1962.  9 years before Cooper.  But they never would grant immunity.  Even if it meant learning the truth.  Morons
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6194 on: March 02, 2021, 03:53:39 PM »
Do you believe the recent story by the family about how they got off the island?  sounds plausible..

I doubt anything would of happened to them if they were caught in the last 20 years. the FBI is one thing and the courts are another. I think they would walk out of the courtroom free.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 03:57:35 PM by Shutter »