Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (12.2%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (4.1%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
100 Cooper lived
18 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 499958 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6420 on: April 21, 2021, 03:50:17 PM »
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We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?

I am not 100% Cooper wasn't a camel or a Unicorn!     Or a phantasm.        Or a mass delusion.             Or a hockey puck.           

I am 100% certain you will never stop playing high stakes holdem games trying to stack the deck and all discussion in your favor. I am 10000000000000% certain of that.

In other words, NO.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case.

You have no JURY. You only have your self and your fans. Thats all you care about. I think you probably chose the DB Cooper case because it looked like easy pickings.

The rest of us have or had different goals. The rest of us have different backgrounds from different lives built over many years. None of us are running for political office trying to tell others what to do! Good luck with that EU.   ;)

GEORGER, do you realize that you always start this crap?

Look at this latest sequence:

1) Post #6405 I get asked a question.

2) Post #6414 I answer that person's question.

3) Post #6415 you decide to interject with your standard snide remark.

GEORGER, the problem is not me, it's you. Chill out. Roll with it. Or at least, ignore it.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6421 on: April 21, 2021, 03:53:00 PM »
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We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?

I am not 100% Cooper wasn't a camel or a Unicorn!     Or a phantasm.        Or a mass delusion.             Or a hockey puck.           

I am 100% certain you will never stop playing high stakes holdem games trying to stack the deck and all discussion in your favor. I am 10000000000000% certain of that.

In other words, NO.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case.

You have no JURY. You only have your self and your fans. Thats all you care about. I think you probably chose the DB Cooper case because it looked like easy pickings.

The rest of us have or had different goals. The rest of us have different backgrounds from different lives built over many years. None of us are running for political office trying to tell others what to do! Good luck with that EU.   ;)

GEORGER, do you realize that you always start this crap?

Look at this latest sequence:

1) Post #6405 I get asked a question.

2) Post #6414 I answer that person's question.

3) Post #6415 you decide to interject with your standard snide remark.

GEORGER, the problem is not me, it's you. Chill out. Roll with it. Or at least, ignore it.

You replied - I answered. Thats all. Now you are trying to make a FEDERAL CASE out of it. You always do that when trapped. Its always somebody else's' fault.

If you dont like the game dont play! aND DONT START THE GAME!    Its simple.

this all started with me asking - were peterson's eyes blue! yOU COULD'T JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION. yOU HAD TO TURN IT INTO A PUZZLE AND A DEBATE.

Play your games with someone else.  Im not interested in cult heroism. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:56:08 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6422 on: April 21, 2021, 04:03:29 PM »
THE ISSUE:  is DB Cooper dna profiling, not personalities on some DB Cooper forum!

I just hope people will use this opportunity to learn something about dna and dna profiling ........ the chance of getting anything really useful from the FBI on this matter is remote at best, for all kinds of reasons. But whatever you do PLEASE don't take any person's word as the gospel on this subject. No matter how high-sounding it sounds or is couched in tv production techniques. Question everything and everyone! Learn something about the dna profiling process. Thats my narrative. 

Have a good day.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 04:04:48 PM by georger »
 

Offline Dfs346

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6423 on: April 21, 2021, 06:28:19 PM »
The FBI has sent a second reply to my FOIA request dated 02.28.2020 which stated:
 "I refer to the public domain file "D.B. Cooper Part 12", page 181, footnote DB Cooper-2317 (attached), which states inter alia "[redacted] Northwest Airlines, Minneapolis, Minnesota....had examined minutely the flight recorder record". I request a copy of the flight recorder record or flight recorder log to which this statement refers."

The first reply, dated 03.03.2020, was:
"We have reviewed your request and determined it is not consistent with the FBI eFOIPA terms of service."

The second reply, dated 04.21.2021, is:
"Records responsive to your request will be made available in the FBI’s electronic FOIA Library (The
Vault) on the FBI’s public website, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. You will be notified when releases are available."
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6424 on: April 21, 2021, 07:18:29 PM »
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The FBI has sent a second reply to my FOIA request dated 02.28.2020 which stated:
 "I refer to the public domain file "D.B. Cooper Part 12", page 181, footnote DB Cooper-2317 (attached), which states inter alia "[redacted] Northwest Airlines, Minneapolis, Minnesota....had examined minutely the flight recorder record". I request a copy of the flight recorder record or flight recorder log to which this statement refers."

The first reply, dated 03.03.2020, was:
"We have reviewed your request and determined it is not consistent with the FBI eFOIPA terms of service."

The second reply, dated 04.21.2021, is:
"Records responsive to your request will be made available in the FBI’s electronic FOIA Library (The
Vault) on the FBI’s public website, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. You will be notified when releases are available."

Great!!!  If I understand the last of the two responses, the FBI will in fact release either a copy of the flight recorder record or the flight recorder log.  Do you know if this will consist of digital readouts of the FDR or a copy of the actual FDR foil?

I am sure that the FBI would have to get permission from Delta Airlines (NWA has now been absorbed into Delta Airlines) to release this type of information.  So maybe Delta Airlines is more open to releasing information related to the Cooper hijacking.  Anyone with contacts with Delta Airlines, or former NWA personnel, might check into this possibility.  And with the current political situation in Georgia related to Delta Airlines and Coca Cola supporting voting rights in opposition to the local politicians, Delta might be considering moving its headquarters from Atlanta to Minneapolis.

A few years ago, the FBI/FAA gave me and my US Congresswoman the runaround in my attempts to get a copy of the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts.  Basically, they claimed that those transcripts were proprietary, presumably to NWA, and told us to get lost.

 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6425 on: April 21, 2021, 11:26:53 PM »
Good work, Robert.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6426 on: April 21, 2021, 11:30:44 PM »
Georger,

Perhaps you can answer this question...if not you, then perhaps someone else.

If DB Cooper was my uncle and I uploaded my own DNA to CODIS, would there be a hit? Or does the Cooper DNA require a direct match?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6427 on: April 21, 2021, 11:39:18 PM »
Quote
The FBI has sent a second reply to my FOIA request dated 02.28.2020 which stated:
 "I refer to the public domain file "D.B. Cooper Part 12", page 181, footnote DB Cooper-2317 (attached), which states inter alia "[redacted] Northwest Airlines, Minneapolis, Minnesota....had examined minutely the flight recorder record". I request a copy of the flight recorder record or flight recorder log to which this statement refers."

How specific were you with the request. the above info "flight recorder record" is reference to the FDR and not any audio data or transmissions of the flight..they were looking for changes in the flight pattern surrounding the pressure bump.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6428 on: April 22, 2021, 12:04:55 AM »
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Georger,

Perhaps you can answer this question...if not you, then perhaps someone else.

If DB Cooper was my uncle and I uploaded my own DNA to CODIS, would there be a hit? Or does the Cooper DNA require a direct match?

Im not sure there even is a "Cooper profile" per se, to compare with. We are told there is a pool of male donors one of which is thought to be Cooper. We havent been told how many donors there are. The sample we are told was 'degraded' so, the profiles for all of those male donors are only 'partials' ? The ProfilerPlus kit that was used tests for 10 loci vs. Codis which tests for 13 loci. So strictly speaking there is no Codis loci test that was administered to the pool of male donors.

I dont even know if the Lab is testing suspects against all of the donors, or only one of those donors they think is Cooper's partial profile! My guess is the Lab is comparing against all of the loci results they have for ALL of the donors.

So what you propose is very hypothetical because we dont have firm facts in this matter. My guess is, if you were the nephew of Cooper and uploaded your ProfilerPlus loci results to another ProfilerPlus test, you either would get excluded or not. I can only assume the FBI is using the old ProfilerPlus data and conducted no further better Codis tests, but Im not even use about that. As your friend correctly said: the test given (according to the FBI doc) was a 10 loci test. The test returned multiple male donors! Another doc says the specimen used was degraded. I think your friend might laugh and agree when I say: this sounds like a crap shoot!

FJ's comment is appropriate.  Retesting using modern techniques is called for.  Ive been calling for that since I first joined Dropzone back in 2007.

That may not be the answer you want or need, but its the best answer I can come up with at the moment...   
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 12:08:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6429 on: April 22, 2021, 12:08:14 AM »
No, this makes sense. I guess the better question is:  when the FBI runs DNA through CODIS, do they run it against specific samples one to one? Or do they upload a profile and then it cross references against all other profiles?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6430 on: April 22, 2021, 12:14:26 AM »
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No, this makes sense. I guess the better question is:  when the FBI runs DNA through CODIS, do they run it against specific samples one to one? Or do they upload a profile and then it cross references against all other profiles?

Under ideal conditions a Lab starts with a Reference sample they collect at the crime sight. Say a blood at a crime site. They compare Suspect dna against that.

Suspects in the Cooper case would be compared against the Pool data they got from Q40/Q41. The Pool data is the only Reference data they have.

If you exclude somebody from the whole pool then the person being tested was not 'associated with the tie'! The pool represents people who dna on the tie .

« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 12:19:16 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6431 on: April 22, 2021, 12:18:42 AM »
So, assuming the DNA in CODIS is Cooper, and assuming Cooper is my uncle (he’s not; I’m being hypothetical), if I uploaded my DNA to CODIS, there’s no guarantee the FBI are even going to see a match? Unless they specifically ran my DNA against Cooper’s? It’s not automatic.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6432 on: April 22, 2021, 12:25:23 AM »
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So, assuming the DNA in CODIS is Cooper, and assuming Cooper is my uncle (he’s not; I’m being hypothetical), if I uploaded my DNA to CODIS, there’s no guarantee the FBI are even going to see a match? Unless they specifically ran my DNA against Cooper’s? It’s not automatic.

Thats right. Remember these are statistical issues where 'stringency' of responses at loci matters. 'stringency' of response in the test data is one determiner of partial vs not-partial.

You keep saying Codis. Just remember the ProfilePlus results are not a full CODIS test - the two systems dont use the same loci!

All of these issues might be solved IF the FBI conducted modern tests using modern PCR methods. ... as FJ is asking for, FJ is 100% correct. I am sure your friend would agree.   
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 12:28:39 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6433 on: April 22, 2021, 12:38:07 AM »
I’m saying CODIS because that is where the Cooper DNA is believed to be.

If Cooper’s DNA or a relative of Cooper then had there DNA uploaded to CODIS, what I am hearing is there is not guarantee of an automatic “hit”.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6434 on: April 22, 2021, 12:54:19 AM »
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I’m saying CODIS because that is where the Cooper DNA is believed to be.

If Cooper’s DNA or a relative of Cooper then had there DNA uploaded to CODIS, what I am hearing is there is not guarantee of an automatic “hit”.

Oh I see what you are saying. CODIS is a system and there are several 'systems'. The Codis system the FBI uses is not open to the public.

from one NDIS manual:  'CODIS is the acronym for the Combined DNA Index System and is the generic term used to describe the FBI’s program of support for criminal justice DNA databases as well as the software used to run these databases. The National DNA Index System or NDIS is considered one part of CODIS, the national level, containing the DNA profiles contributed by federal, state, and local participating forensic laboratories.'

Public systems are different and not totally compatible with NDIS. All of these systems are proprietary software driven... the FBI can access all of the systems but the general public cannot.   

See wiki for a list of dna database systems: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 02:22:14 AM by georger »