Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1389813 times)

Offline dudeman17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 325
  • Thanked: 100 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6405 on: April 20, 2021, 09:36:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6406 on: April 20, 2021, 11:50:39 PM »
So, I emailed the two FBI documents detailing the DNA information to my genetic scientist friend (she’s well known, but I’ll protect her privacy for now). This is her response to me:

I just had a chance to read through these two documents.  The first one says that the FBI was able to get DNA from items Q40 and Q41, which they combined.  They were able to obtain a 10 locus CODIS profile from the combined sample.  (Nowadays, CODIS includes 20 loci).  The results indicated that the DNA came from more than one person, but they don't say how many - this is a common because sometimes it's not possible to say how many contributors there are. 

My understanding is that according to CODIS guidelines, a mixture is uploadable to CODIS.  If a suspect is identified, the probability is determined whether it's possible that he is one of the contributors to that mixture.  If the answer is yes, there is more work to do, but I am not sure how they handle that.

The second report (undated but after 2008), says that the evidence was retested, and a male profile was obtained and uploaded to CODIS.  The DNA profile came up with a list of people they wanted to test and compare to the CODIS profile.  But then in 2006, it was decided that the profile was too degraded to identify anyone, but that it could be used to rule out suspects.  But by the date of this report, not many had been tested and compared.

So there seems to be a profile in CODIS that still can be used for comparison, if you manage to get various suspects tested on the CODIS markers.


Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion that hasn’t already been said, but it’s an experts two cents at least.
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6407 on: April 21, 2021, 12:00:11 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
So, I emailed the two FBI documents detailing the DNA information to my genetic scientist friend (she’s well known, but I’ll protect her privacy for now). This is her response to me:

I just had a chance to read through these two documents.  The first one says that the FBI was able to get DNA from items Q40 and Q41, which they combined.  They were able to obtain a 10 locus CODIS profile from the combined sample.  (Nowadays, CODIS includes 20 loci).  The results indicated that the DNA came from more than one person, but they don't say how many - this is a common because sometimes it's not possible to say how many contributors there are. 

My understanding is that according to CODIS guidelines, a mixture is uploadable to CODIS.  If a suspect is identified, the probability is determined whether it's possible that he is one of the contributors to that mixture.  If the answer is yes, there is more work to do, but I am not sure how they handle that.

The second report (undated but after 2008), says that the evidence was retested, and a male profile was obtained and uploaded to CODIS.  The DNA profile came up with a list of people they wanted to test and compare to the CODIS profile.  But then in 2006, it was decided that the profile was too degraded to identify anyone, but that it could be used to rule out suspects.  But by the date of this report, not many had been tested and compared.

So there seems to be a profile in CODIS that still can be used for comparison, if you manage to get various suspects tested on the CODIS markers.


Not sure if this adds anything to the discussion that hasn’t already been said, but it’s an experts two cents at least.

Could you list the reports/docs you emailed to her?

I concur with her comments - good comments. Tnx!  Her nailing ten loci may indicate she looked up the kit used ... nice.  :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:03:47 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6408 on: April 21, 2021, 12:03:18 AM »
The same two that you posted in the news thread.
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6409 on: April 21, 2021, 12:04:52 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The same two that you posted in the news thread.

ok - just trying to make sure I know who and what is doing who and what!  :rofl:  No biggie. Again thanks!! Good work. Thank your friend...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 12:05:50 AM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6410 on: April 21, 2021, 12:12:41 AM »
I asked her about if she knew the people you mentioned. She got back to me about it, but since you yelled at me about PMing you, you’ll have to wait lol
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6411 on: April 21, 2021, 12:33:10 AM »
Why has the FBI not uploaded the Cooper DNA profile to GedMatch and attempted forensic genealogy?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6412 on: April 21, 2021, 01:00:07 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Why has the FBI not uploaded the Cooper DNA profile to GedMatch and attempted forensic genealogy?

case is closed. The DNA Project shut down ?  ... its conflicting trying to read, think, and suddenly having to answer PMs. Dont take it personally. I vowed years ago never to have a pager or similar interrupter device again! When PMs come in here they stop everything a person is doing and switch one over to the PM page automatically, demanding immediate attention. Only after answering can you get back to where you were and what you were doing in the forum ... an incoming PM stops everything in its tracks here ........ maybe you didnt know that. I prefer to handle PM's on my schedule when I have time to read and think about them alone and not have to multi-task after being jerked away from the forums by somebody's PM ... when somebody sends several PM's in a row, it makes life impossible here!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 04:54:28 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6413 on: April 21, 2021, 02:01:50 PM »
Like it or not, the Cooper discussion has wandered into an area where some technical competence is required. There is no way to 'fudge it'. 

NIST, the Ntl Institute of Standards & Technology.gov, has a number of intro level pages on genetics and how genetic material is processed.

In the Cooper case one issue is 'multiple donors' or 'mixed dna samples' - How are multiple donors detected in a sample? How are these samples collected and processed and evaluated?

See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Likewise this page explains the term Partial, see:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 02:33:39 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6414 on: April 21, 2021, 02:33:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6415 on: April 21, 2021, 02:37:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 02:43:13 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6416 on: April 21, 2021, 03:15:52 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6417 on: April 21, 2021, 03:36:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?

I am not 100% Cooper wasn't a camel or a Unicorn!     Or a phantasm.        Or a mass delusion.             Or a hockey puck.           

I am 100% certain you will never stop playing high stakes holdem games trying to stack the deck and all discussion in your favor. I am 10000000000000% certain of that.

For all others, there are good movies about CODIS and forensics at You Tube.  People might view a few of those several times. Because discussion about the Cooper case is either going NOWHERE or its going SOMEWHERE - and may get technical and boil down to technical issues most people dont have any knowledge of. Its an individual choice but the choices do exist. Good luck.     
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:40:21 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6418 on: April 21, 2021, 03:39:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?

I am not 100% Cooper wasn't a camel or a Unicorn!     Or a phantasm.        Or a mass delusion.             Or a hockey puck.           

I am 100% certain you will never stop playing high stakes holdem games trying to stack the deck and all discussion in your favor. I am 10000000000000% certain of that.

In other words, NO.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3182
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6419 on: April 21, 2021, 03:44:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
We determined after filming that the filter we analyzed on the show was contaminated with Tom Kaye's DNA. Therefore, Sheridan was put back on the table as a suspect.

No I saw that, but I thought I read that the FBI had done a comparison on SP that did not exclude him. Am I mistaken on that?

I believe you're referencing Sheridan's picture being shown to the witnesses--presumably Tina.

After the initial investigation into Sheridan the FBI said it was going to show his picture to the witnesses to illicit a positive or negative response and that they wouldn't investigate further until that was done. Then a few months later the investigation into Sheridan picked up again.

Did Peterson have blue eyes - yes or no?  Did anyone report Cooper having 'blue' eyes - yes or no ?  Does any CODIS test or other kit test named in this case, test for eye color?

Do you have blue eyes? Does Tom Kaye have blue eyes? My eyes are hazel/green.

These are not trick questions. THIS is an open forum devoted to the discussion of the DB Cooper case!

Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper had brown eyes? Are you 100% certain that DB Cooper did not have blue eyes?

If yes, how?

I am not 100% Cooper wasn't a camel or a Unicorn!     Or a phantasm.        Or a mass delusion.             Or a hockey puck.           

I am 100% certain you will never stop playing high stakes holdem games trying to stack the deck and all discussion in your favor. I am 10000000000000% certain of that.

In other words, NO.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, I rest my case.

You have no JURY. You only have your self and your fans. Thats all you care about. I think you probably chose the DB Cooper case because it looked like easy pickings.

The rest of us have or had different goals. The rest of us have different backgrounds from different lives built over many years. None of us are running for political office trying to tell others what to do! Good luck with that EU.   ;)   

Its all about choice. And the choices people strive to get the opportunity to make. As long as there still remain choices to get to make!
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:48:08 PM by georger »