Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 1310954 times)

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #885 on: August 20, 2015, 11:29:30 PM »
 :)
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #886 on: August 20, 2015, 11:39:00 PM »
Your pics are starting to look like documents from the Freedom Of Information Act.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #887 on: August 20, 2015, 11:49:22 PM »
Interesting video here on sketches, and what will become of them....

 

Offline 377

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #888 on: August 21, 2015, 12:25:47 PM »
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Everyone seems to treat the FBI composite drawing(s) as if they were photographs of Cooper. They are not. As a criminal defense lawyer I saw many police composite drawings of suspects that were supported by eye witnesses as being accurate likenesses turn out to be WAAAAY OFF the mark when the actual perp was found and convicted on the basis of irrefutable physical evidence. 


Agreed, and I commented on that in my post. In all fairness, most of the sketches are "waaaay off" due to the time limit of seeing the suspect. the crew has disagreed over the sketch, or at least Flo did. I do believe the description will beat the sketch any day though.

In my conversations with Bill Mitchell, he stated the following about the Cooper composites (this was in an email sent to me after he viewed the photos and videos of my father):

""On the plus side his cheeks, chin and neck looked more like what I thought he looked like. I had always thought the composite drawing had his face to thin. That isn't much but that is best I can do."

Didn't Bill Mitchell take particular note of Cooper's "turkey gobble" chin? Viki's dad sure had that feature.

What about Bradley Cooper's father Jack Cooper? The FBI allegedly investigated him but ruled him out.

Here is my review of Bradley's book. Interesting read, but full of factual errors.

Bradley Collins obviously has a sincere belief that his late father Jack was DB Cooper. Jack isn't a bad suspect actually IF everything Bradley writes is true. Jack was a seasoned skydiver, knew the Pacific NW area, was a pilot and had a brother Bud who was a Northwest Airlines 727 captain. Jack had money problems and wasn't averse to a few scams to keep his cash flow coming, e.g. taking out disability insurance policies and then having a series of bone breaking minor skydiving landing accidents that got the insurance money coming in. Bradley also writes that his Dad disappeared for five days spanning the Nov 24 1971 DB Cooper skyjack date. It would be interesting to see if this absence can be independently verified.

According to the author, Jack was promptly questioned by the FBI after the skyjack but nothing further happened. It would be interesting to know why the FBI apparently ruled him out as a suspect.

BUT... the author publishes an alarming series of incorrect or twisted facts that even a cursory Google search would have caught, so it makes the reader question the accuracy of everything in the book. Much is made of Bradley's recollection of conversations with his Dad and overheard conversations involving his Dad. Are these recollections accurate? The reader is left to wonder...

Examples:

1. The author writes that Howard Hughes headed NWA and cites Hughes's death as a pivotal point for his Dad and his Uncle as it marked a loss of possible forgiveness for DB Cooper, whose caper Bradley imagines would have amused "Uncle Howard". Howard Hughes owned Air West, not NWA. Air West never became NWA. Hughes played major roles in TWA and Air West but had no ownership or control of NWA ever. The author even fantasizes about Hughes playing cards with his friends and chuckling about the skyjack caper.

2.The author publishes a vivid account of a conversation with his father just prior to the skyjack in which his father discusses an upcoming unusual night jump and demonstrates a wrist watch that with the press of a button becomes an illuminated altimeter. To the best of my knowledge, and I have researched this, no such watch existed in November of 1971, the date of the skyjack. Either the author imagined it or he misdescribed it.

3. The author writes about a WW 2 surplus AT6 aircraft flown by his father and brother and writes that it could fly nearly 400 mph and climb to 30,000 feet. Even with postwar engine upgrades and mods no T6 could match these specs or even come close. Nobody knows more about squeezing performance out of T6s than Reno air racers do and none of them have even come remotely close to 400 mph. The record is about 247 mph. Ceiling is roughly 21,000 ft.

4. The author recounts a skydive demonstration jump in bad weather where his father ended up caught in power lines above a body of water. He describes his father using a knife to cut all the lines and then drop into the water below. Bradley is confusing the term "cutaway", which describes a skydivers release of the main canopy by activating mechanical riser releases with an actual cutting of lines with a knife to accomplish the same purpose. It's probably an innocent mistake in which vague childhood memories and the passage of time have blurred the facts but it calls into question how accurate the author's recollection are.

The author speculates that his father Jack recruited Bud to be the ground man who would meet him on terra firma after parachuting from the skyjacked NWA 727. Its a long story but the author implies that Bud's later suicide was a direct result of his involvement in the crime. Why a well paid NWA airliner captain would risk a felony conviction and loss of his prestigious career for $100,000 (half the loot) is puzzling to say the least.

The author's account of how Jack would find Bud after jumping from the 727 at night is naively simplistic. Bud would simply blink his car headlights, Jack would see them, and they would meet up and drive away. Since Cooper had no direct control over the flight path and only a rough idea of his location from visual clues such a rendezvous would be highly improbable. Miracles do happen though, look at how close some other skydiving skyjackers landed to their intended destination, e.g. Richard McCoy and Rob Heady.

Sure I am nit picking, but accuracy is very important in non fiction. That said, the story is both interesting and entertaining. Jack was quite a character and it's fun to read about his life. In spite of all the book errors Jack Collins seemed to have the skills needed to be Cooper. Does the author present any probative evidence to support the title: My father Was DB Cooper? The answer is no. It's all circumstantial and speculative.

Bradley Collins needs to clean up the errors and republish the book if he expects his claim to be taken seriously. Can I rule out Jack Collins as DBC? No, I can't, but he joins a long list of fathers, husbands, brothers etc whose surviving relatives are convinced that DB Cooper was a family member.

377
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #889 on: September 25, 2015, 09:25:12 PM »
Here is an updated version of the Cooper suspect stat sheet.  Please feel free to add and/or correct:
Name                Age   Height #             Hair         Eye
               
Dan Cooper Suspect   45   6'   180           Black   Brown
               
Don Burnworth               
Ted Braden               
Ken Christiansen   45   5'7"   150           Brown   Hazel
Jack Coffelt               
L.D. Cooper               
Bobby Dayton           44   5'8"              Brown   Blue/gray
William Gosset           41   5'10"   186      Brown
Ted Mayfield                 
Richard Floyd McCoy   29            
Sheridan Peterson   46   6'1"   180           Black   Blue
Duane Weber               
               
               
Robert Richard Lepsy   35   6'   180           Black   Brown
Melvin Wilson           44   6'   185           Brown   Blue
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #890 on: September 25, 2015, 09:41:00 PM »
Thanks for the update NMI. I've been pretty busy the last couple weeks with work. I'll try to help out where I can. I believe a wanted poster is around for McCoy. that should have the info needed.

We should have some more interesting stuff coming down the pike soon. this is from a known source, and not the secret agents I have dealt with before  :P I've seen some of it, and it should help bust some myths out there. Paul won't like it at all....

Shutter
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #891 on: September 26, 2015, 12:01:50 AM »
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Everyone seems to treat the FBI composite drawing(s) as if they were photographs of Cooper. They are not. As a criminal defense lawyer I saw many police composite drawings of suspects that were supported by eye witnesses as being accurate likenesses turn out to be WAAAAY OFF the mark when the actual perp was found and convicted on the basis of irrefutable physical evidence. 


Agreed, and I commented on that in my post. In all fairness, most of the sketches are "waaaay off" due to the time limit of seeing the suspect. the crew has disagreed over the sketch, or at least Flo did. I do believe the description will beat the sketch any day though.

In my conversations with Bill Mitchell, he stated the following about the Cooper composites (this was in an email sent to me after he viewed the photos and videos of my father):

""On the plus side his cheeks, chin and neck looked more like what I thought he looked like. I had always thought the composite drawing had his face to thin. That isn't much but that is best I can do."

Didn't Bill Mitchell take particular note of Cooper's "turkey gobble" chin? Viki's dad sure had that feature.

What about Bradley Cooper's father Jack Cooper? The FBI allegedly investigated him but ruled him out.

Here is my review of Bradley's book. Interesting read, but full of factual errors.

Bradley Collins obviously has a sincere belief that his late father Jack was DB Cooper. Jack isn't a bad suspect actually IF everything Bradley writes is true. Jack was a seasoned skydiver, knew the Pacific NW area, was a pilot and had a brother Bud who was a Northwest Airlines 727 captain. Jack had money problems and wasn't averse to a few scams to keep his cash flow coming, e.g. taking out disability insurance policies and then having a series of bone breaking minor skydiving landing accidents that got the insurance money coming in. Bradley also writes that his Dad disappeared for five days spanning the Nov 24 1971 DB Cooper skyjack date. It would be interesting to see if this absence can be independently verified.

According to the author, Jack was promptly questioned by the FBI after the skyjack but nothing further happened. It would be interesting to know why the FBI apparently ruled him out as a suspect.

BUT... the author publishes an alarming series of incorrect or twisted facts that even a cursory Google search would have caught, so it makes the reader question the accuracy of everything in the book. Much is made of Bradley's recollection of conversations with his Dad and overheard conversations involving his Dad. Are these recollections accurate? The reader is left to wonder...

Examples:

1. The author writes that Howard Hughes headed NWA and cites Hughes's death as a pivotal point for his Dad and his Uncle as it marked a loss of possible forgiveness for DB Cooper, whose caper Bradley imagines would have amused "Uncle Howard". Howard Hughes owned Air West, not NWA. Air West never became NWA. Hughes played major roles in TWA and Air West but had no ownership or control of NWA ever. The author even fantasizes about Hughes playing cards with his friends and chuckling about the skyjack caper.

2.The author publishes a vivid account of a conversation with his father just prior to the skyjack in which his father discusses an upcoming unusual night jump and demonstrates a wrist watch that with the press of a button becomes an illuminated altimeter. To the best of my knowledge, and I have researched this, no such watch existed in November of 1971, the date of the skyjack. Either the author imagined it or he misdescribed it.

3. The author writes about a WW 2 surplus AT6 aircraft flown by his father and brother and writes that it could fly nearly 400 mph and climb to 30,000 feet. Even with postwar engine upgrades and mods no T6 could match these specs or even come close. Nobody knows more about squeezing performance out of T6s than Reno air racers do and none of them have even come remotely close to 400 mph. The record is about 247 mph. Ceiling is roughly 21,000 ft.

4. The author recounts a skydive demonstration jump in bad weather where his father ended up caught in power lines above a body of water. He describes his father using a knife to cut all the lines and then drop into the water below. Bradley is confusing the term "cutaway", which describes a skydivers release of the main canopy by activating mechanical riser releases with an actual cutting of lines with a knife to accomplish the same purpose. It's probably an innocent mistake in which vague childhood memories and the passage of time have blurred the facts but it calls into question how accurate the author's recollection are.

The author speculates that his father Jack recruited Bud to be the ground man who would meet him on terra firma after parachuting from the skyjacked NWA 727. Its a long story but the author implies that Bud's later suicide was a direct result of his involvement in the crime. Why a well paid NWA airliner captain would risk a felony conviction and loss of his prestigious career for $100,000 (half the loot) is puzzling to say the least.

The author's account of how Jack would find Bud after jumping from the 727 at night is naively simplistic. Bud would simply blink his car headlights, Jack would see them, and they would meet up and drive away. Since Cooper had no direct control over the flight path and only a rough idea of his location from visual clues such a rendezvous would be highly improbable. Miracles do happen though, look at how close some other skydiving skyjackers landed to their intended destination, e.g. Richard McCoy and Rob Heady.

Sure I am nit picking, but accuracy is very important in non fiction. That said, the story is both interesting and entertaining. Jack was quite a character and it's fun to read about his life. In spite of all the book errors Jack Collins seemed to have the skills needed to be Cooper. Does the author present any probative evidence to support the title: My father Was DB Cooper? The answer is no. It's all circumstantial and speculative.

Bradley Collins needs to clean up the errors and republish the book if he expects his claim to be taken seriously. Can I rule out Jack Collins as DBC? No, I can't, but he joins a long list of fathers, husbands, brothers etc whose surviving relatives are convinced that DB Cooper was a family member.

377

very good! Howard Hughes owned NWA?  :) :) :) :) :)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #892 on: September 27, 2015, 11:23:20 AM »
Quote
Ken Christiansen   45   5'7"   150           Brown   Hazel

His DL states 5-8, and a photo can also confirm a 5-8 height. I believe the FBI noted his weight (1971 not later) to being 150 lbs during 1971.

As the FBI has stated in the past.."Christiansen was dismissed because the only part of his physical description that matches Coopers is that he is male."  ;D

« Last Edit: September 27, 2015, 02:58:44 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #893 on: September 28, 2015, 12:41:57 AM »
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Ken Christiansen   45   5'7"   150           Brown   Hazel

His DL states 5-8, and a photo can also confirm a 5-8 height. I believe the FBI noted his weight (1971 not later) to being 150 lbs during 1971.

As the FBI has stated in the past.."Christiansen was dismissed because the only part of his physical description that matches Coopers is that he is male."  ;D

I would laugh but you know .... this has become like staring at the same frog on the same lily pad ... since 2010! The frog and I need a rest! (and a fricking medal for devotion above and beyond ....)!  :) :) :)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 12:42:26 AM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #894 on: September 28, 2015, 06:45:43 PM »
Pure titanium and bismuth have been alloyed to make medical implants and dental castings:

"[0042] In this example 0, 1, 3 and 5 wt % of bismuth of 99.5% in purity were melted into a grade II commercially pure titanium (c.p. Ti) and Ti—7.5Mo alloy containing 7.5 wt % of Mo and the balance Ti by using a commercial arc-melting vacuum/pressure type casting system (Castmatic, Iwatani Corp., Japan). Appropriate amounts of c.p. Ti, molybdenum and bismuth were melted in a U-shaped copper hearth with a tungsten electrode. "

US Patent: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #895 on: September 28, 2015, 08:21:54 PM »
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Ken Christiansen   45   5'7"   150           Brown   Hazel

His DL states 5-8, and a photo can also confirm a 5-8 height. I believe the FBI noted his weight (1971 not later) to being 150 lbs during 1971.

As the FBI has stated in the past.."Christiansen was dismissed because the only part of his physical description that matches Coopers is that he is male."  ;D

I would laugh but you know .... this has become like staring at the same frog on the same lily pad ... since 2010! The frog and I need a rest! (and a fricking medal for devotion above and beyond ....)!  :) :) :)
Robert reported on his site that Kenny weighed 170, and he backed it up with a license.  He also argued Kenny could have lied about his height and could have been an inch taller.  I would argue that Kenny would more likely add to his height to be more appealing.  His height stands at 5'8".
Updated list:
Name                  Age   Height #   Hair color   Eye color
               
Dan Cooper Suspect   45   6'   180   Black   Brown
               
Don Burnworth               
Ted Braden               
Ken Christiansen   45   5'8"   170   Brown   Hazel
Jack Coffelt               
L.D. Cooper               
Bobby Dayton           44   5'8"      Brown   Blue/gray
William Gosset           41   5'10"    186   Brown
Ted Mayfield                 
Richard Floyd McCoy   29            
Sheridan Peterson   46   6'1"   180   Black   Blue
Duane Weber               
               
               
Robert Richard Lepsy   35   6'   180   Black   Brown
Melvin Wilson           44   6'   185   Brown   Blue
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #896 on: September 28, 2015, 10:44:32 PM »
I put together some radio programs from hijackings in 1972....


« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 11:26:54 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #897 on: September 28, 2015, 11:49:28 PM »
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I put together some radio programs from hijackings in 1972....




neat 8)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #898 on: September 29, 2015, 03:21:28 PM »
Here is some info on Duane Weber....
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #899 on: October 02, 2015, 08:37:05 PM »
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According to the FBI wanted flyer (produced after McCoy escaped from prison), he was 5'10" and 170 lbs with blue eyes, brown hair, a dark complexion and "large protruding ears."

The flyer was reprinted in "The Real McCoy" by B. Rhodes.
Thanks.  The list is starting to shape up.  Here is the latest:
Name                Age   Hght   Wght   Hair      Eyes
               
Dan Cooper Suspect   45   6'   180   Black   Brown
(survived jump)               
Don Burnworth               
Ted Braden               
Ken Christiansen   45   5'8"   170   Brown   Hazel
Jack Coffelt               
L.D. Cooper               
Bobby Dayton           44   5'8"      Brown   Blue/gray
William Gosset        41   5'10"   186   Brown   Brown
Ted Mayfield                 
Richard Floyd McCoy   29   5'10"   170   Brown   Blue
Sheridan Peterson   46   6'1"   180   Black   Blue
Duane Weber           47   6'   175   Black   Brown
               
(missing person)               
Robert Richard Lepsy   35   6'   180   Black   Brown
Melvin Wilson           44   6'   185   Brown   Blue

"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford