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[georger]

Anderson stated that they had not reached Portland proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof. (BR said the same thing to Lt Col RDD and Cpt CCA aka 'Weiner Roast' A. )

Lake Merwin far behind them.

Tierra del Fuego is connected to Tina Bar by water!

[Bruce A. Smith]

Tierra del Fuego, Tokyo, and Tina Bar - Ole!

It reminds me of a song by the folk singer Dave Brown (the other one): "It's all one road. It's just that every now and then the signs change a little."

The Zen of Cooper....

[georger]

Tierra del Fuego, Tokyo, and Tina Bar - Ole!

robo posts may serve your state of mind but provide no information relevant to human informational needs -

[Bruce A. Smith]

Tierra del Fuego, Tokyo, and Tina Bar - Ole!

robo posts may serve your state of mind but provide no information relevant to human informational needs -

I couldn't have said it any better, Georger, unless I was taking drugs.

[Shutter]

It's not an opinion, it's a fact..you are going against known evidence with nothing to support it. it's like saying a round wheel won't roll. you want people to believe Cooper went down the stairs prior to the time he went down the stairs and was heard, and felt by the crew...same for the other hijackings..

can I say the flight went north, and not south, or Tina wasn't really on the plane?

they were aware of Cooper dealing with the stairs every time he attempted something. you assume way too much with solid evidence..it's pretty simple, they would know if he was on the stairs at 8:05...I'm sure all of this has reason for a suspect, it's the only reason someone would push against solid evidence, it has to fit somewhere, no?

[Shutter]

You sure Anderson said this, or both?

[Robert99]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce,

It is the federal government publications that state the maximum tidal effect at Portland/Vancouver is between 1 and 2 feet.

Also, the nominal Columbia River water level at the Vancouver gage is about 5 feet above sea level.  And it is about 100+ miles to the Pacific Ocean from that gage.  That means the Columbia River travels 20 MILES horizontally on the average for ever 1 FOOT it descends.  So I do not believe the current is anywhere close to 4 or 5 knots.

If you remember  from the EU filming, several boats were simply "parked", not anchored, maybe 200 feet offshore and they absolutely did not noticeably drift downstream during that filming.  Even with a 1 knot current, those boats should have drifted about 6080 feet (one nautical mile) every hour.  And they didn't.

[Shutter]

If a loose Placard would instantly fall out with the Airstairs at 20 Degrees, you'd expect its location to have been much further North on the flightpath. Given its location and events, it is most likely the loose Placard fell out when Cooper descended the Airstairs and its location doesn't support an 8:10 Airstair descent. It supports the 8:05 time frame.

1) when did Cooper remove the card'
2) when did Cooper throw the card..
3) when did Cooper drop the card on the top, middle, or bottom of the stairs.
4) when did they change the time stamp on the transcripts from 8:05 to 8:10
5) when did Cooper tie his shoes that caused him to trip and fall out of the plane leaving the money on the steps..
6) please provide proof no wind is on the stairs what so ever, especially the last couple steps that couldn't possibly move light objects.

you are actually trying to change time.

[Kermit]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce ,
You are certainly not being accurate in your Post. I can assure you that the Tidal affect does indeed affect not only as far upstream of Tina Bar but also up the Willamette River as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City area. I. Had a beach blanket stretch out close to shoreline as I went off skiing. Some friends had to move my stuff as Tidal affects were causing river to rise. The Willamette flows into the Columbia a few miles from Tina Bar. Also I’m pretty sure Tina Bar is more 60 miles inland from ocean and the Lewis river is more than 6 miles downstream from Tina Bar. I doubt the river would be 4 or 5 knots in that area. Of course you’re joking about the 105 degrees but someone might actually believe you.
However I seriously doubt that a sack of Money could possibly travel that many miles upstream ! So I guess I’m with you on that one ! I consider this whole theory as preposterous but that just me I guess.

[Bruce A. Smith]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce,

It is the federal government publications that state the maximum tidal effect at Portland/Vancouver is between 1 and 2 feet.

Also, the nominal Columbia River water level at the Vancouver gage is about 5 feet above sea level.  And it is about 100+ miles to the Pacific Ocean from that gage.  That means the Columbia River travels 20 MILES horizontally on the average for ever 1 FOOT it descends.  So I do not believe the current is anywhere close to 4 or 5 knots.

If you remember  from the EU filming, several boats were simply "parked", not anchored, maybe 200 feet offshore and they absolutely did not noticeably drift downstream during that filming.  Even with a 1 knot current, those boats should have drifted about 6080 feet (one nautical mile) every hour.  And they didn't.

Good to know what the feds are saying about tidal effects.

As for currents, you are correct - when we were at T-Bar in August 2016 the current was minimal. However, when I was there in 2011 it was very strong. I noticed the difference immediately just by looking at the water.

All this is to say that regardless of what exactly the daily flow is, it's hard to imagine that a pile of money is gonna float upstream for six miles or so.

[Bruce A. Smith]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce ,
You are certainly not being accurate in your Post. I can assure you that the Tidal affect does indeed affect not only as far upstream of Tina Bar but also up the Willamette River as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City area. I. Had a beach blanket stretch out close to shoreline as I went off skiing. Some friends had to move my stuff as Tidal affects were causing river to rise. The Willamette flows into the Columbia a few miles from Tina Bar. Also I’m pretty sure Tina Bar is more 60 miles inland from ocean and the Lewis river is more than 6 miles downstream from Tina Bar. I doubt the river would be 4 or 5 knots in that area. Of course you’re joking about the 105 degrees but someone might actually believe you.
However I seriously doubt that a sack of Money could possibly travel that many miles upstream ! So I guess I’m with you on that one ! I consider this whole theory as preposterous but that just me I guess.

Well, at least I got One Amen outta ya! By the way, it was 105 on a bank's reader board as I drove past it in Vancouver, approaching the I-5.

Tidal effects on the Williamette as far as Oregon City? How does that happen? Seems extraordinary. Maybe the beach sank? Remember when the beach at the Dalles disappeared one night due to underground disturbances?

T-Bar may be more than 60 miles from the Pacific. All I really know is that when I drove, it took Forever to get to the ocean - but I thought that was because of the curvy roads.

And you say the Lewis River is more than six miles downstream from T-Bar? Maybe I was reading my map upside down? But I can assure you it wasn't the Tequila. Had to quit that stuff due to medical reasons. Sigh.

[Kermit]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce ,
You are certainly not being accurate in your Post. I can assure you that the Tidal affect does indeed affect not only as far upstream of Tina Bar but also up the Willamette River as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City area. I. Had a beach blanket stretch out close to shoreline as I went off skiing. Some friends had to move my stuff as Tidal affects were causing river to rise. The Willamette flows into the Columbia a few miles from Tina Bar. Also I’m pretty sure Tina Bar is more 60 miles inland from ocean and the Lewis river is more than 6 miles downstream from Tina Bar. I doubt the river would be 4 or 5 knots in that area. Of course you’re joking about the 105 degrees but someone might actually believe you.
However I seriously doubt that a sack of Money could possibly travel that many miles upstream ! So I guess I’m with you on that one ! I consider this whole theory as preposterous but that just me I guess.

Well, at least I got One Amen outta ya! By the way, it was 105 on a bank's reader board as I drove past it in Vancouver, approaching the I-5.

Tidal effects on the Williamette as far as Oregon City? How does that happen? Seems extraordinary. Maybe the beach sank? Remember when the beach at the Dalles disappeared one night due to underground disturbances?

T-Bar may be more than 60 miles from the Pacific. All I really know is that when I drove, it took Forever to get to the ocean - but I thought that was because of the curvy roads.

And you say the Lewis River is more than six miles downstream from T-Bar? Maybe I was reading my map upside down? But I can assure you it wasn't the Tequila. Had to quit that stuff due to medical reasons. Sigh.

Well at least I agree with you on by far the most important part of your post. The Lewis River is about 10 miles downstream from Tina Bar. I see no,way a bag of money weighing 22 lbs could make its way upriver to Tina Bar due to Tidal affects.

[georger]

You sure Anderson said this, or both?

Thats as good as it gets - from the crew. Their account is consistent.

Apparently Soderlind didn't listen! He sent everyone looking elsewhere. Might have something to do with communication issues, reading time marks on FDR and CVR tapes, etc. Whatever it was it wasn't the radar tapes. The error responsible for large search error is in the other data Soderlind processed. Maybe a computer processing error? UNIVAC I and COBOL ?   

We know he tried several corrections (and issued new maps). Some with new time stamps? It was the time stamps that Ckret was most interested in for some reason.

[georger]

You sure Anderson said this, or both?

Imagine you are an agent at Seattle on 11/24/71. Who would you go with? The crew and their testimony or this guy Solderlind (an egg head at Minneapolis) who is running a FDR reader, a CVR reader, looking at flight comm notes, and using a computer to process radar data sent from McChord looking for consensus amongst all of the data? Who would you believe? You have to send memos out to get a search going .... and there is a lot at stake and the clock is running!  Who would you look to for guidance?

You would look to Soderlind who is the expert in these matters. But, if Solderlind has an incomplete data set, or data with a significant error in it, then what .... ?   

[MeyerLouie]

Georger and R99 have cited several instances of error.  I don't deem it necessary to repeat their observations.  It's there, all you have to do is read their posts, their observations.  They correct your mis-statements pretty much on a daily basis.  What frickin' more evidence do you need, Mr. Zero Credibility? 
Meyer

It's an interesting triumvirate: Georger, R99, and Meyer. Many accusations and plenty of vague statements of mockery and character assassination.

I wonder what the motivation is? A self-styled Truth Squad? Or a hit team for folks who don't like what I say or how I say it? Or just a bunch of guys who always feel like they're the smartest guys in the room?

Or jealousy?

Hmmm. Time will tell, I suppose.

Time has already told, maker of fake news.  Nothing vague here, you've been exposed, Robert Blevins reincarnated.  You've earned everything you've gotten.  Get the facts right before spouting off, then your credibility might move up a notch from zero.  Jealous of you?  Really?  You have delusions  of grandeur -- a legend in your own mind.