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[Shutter]

I believe you are also implying a larger portion of the lower river doing this, and I don't believe that is the case here..

[FLYJACK]

with the bag untouched by anything on the bottom, able to move freely would have to have more reverse flow than the natural flow..it could never make any backwards progress fighting the natural current in less time.

the bag would simply move back with the flow of the current erasing any backwards motion. you can push a car up a hill, but if you stop, the car will just roll back...so, if the current was strong enough to go against the natural flow for 8 hours, it then has 16 to remove what it lost....

If you push a car uphill turn the wheels and it is held by the curb, it will stay..  tides deposit objects all the time.

How do you know it was a 20lb bag at TBAR? on the bottom? did the money bag break open in the Lewis tumble?

Maybe just a bundle, or the briefcase..  could the surface reverse flow and salinity increase buoyancy? What was the impact of layer and edge flow differentials?

Could it be pushed 10 miles at just over 1/mph then settle on the shoreline.. or snagged and later dredged up?


I don't know, and neither do you..

We do know this, there is evidence that the Columbia has/had a periodic flow reversal well beyond TBAR..

[Shutter]

doesn't matter if it was in the bag or not...it's just not going to move in such a long distance..it's up there with the propeller theory...it hasn't been proven where he jumped in the first place. I believe it's possible he went into the Columbia, but until further proof can surface I'm not going to claim it as proof, or push it on anyone..or, imply that it's exactly what happened..

If it is ever revealed what really happened, I doubt we will see a long string of events. it will probably be something simple. people tend to make it complicated in order to arrive to a conclusion since it's been so long in getting to the bottom of what happened that night. it just doesn't have to have a wild chain of events..

If true, nobody would of ever thought the 3 men who escaped Alcatraz would escape on the same boat that brought them there. it's a very simple answer to a decades old mystery..if true..

[FLYJACK]

doesn't matter if it was in the bag or not...it's just not going to move in such a long distance..it's up there with the propeller theory...it hasn't been proven where he jumped in the first place. I believe it's possible he went into the Columbia, but until further proof can surface I'm not going to claim it as proof, or push it on anyone..or, imply that it's exactly what happened..

If it is ever revealed what really happened, I doubt we will see a long string of events. it will probably be something simple. people tend to make it complicated in order to arrive to a conclusion since it's been so long in getting to the bottom of what happened that night. it just doesn't have to have a wild chain of events..

If true, nobody would of ever thought the 3 men who escaped Alcatraz would escape on the same boat that brought them there. it's a very simple answer to a decades old mystery..if true..

How do you know it couldn't move that distance? false equivalency..

Reading about “estuarine circulation” Tidal and Ocean/River interactions and it is crazy what can happen. You can get salinity changes in levels, multiple direction flows throughout levels and even at surface. One direction in the middle and another at the side.. It is extremely complex stuff.

[Shutter]

common sense, and reading about the possibilities..and limitations...

[FLYJACK]

common sense, and reading about the possibilities..and limitations...

Common sense is experiential bias..  not the best tool for dismissing complex unknowns

Assumptions are needed for intellectual inquiry but using assumptions to block that inquiry is stifling and regressive. Too much of that in this case..


Generally, the Ocean tide moves up river at bottom and river down top, if the Columbia surface flow reversed then that is powerful.

[georger]

NEWS! - CREATURE/ANIMAL NOW LIVING AT TINA BAR!

Locals have been reporting strange things going on a Tina Bar for almost a year. Yesterday, apparently, the creature, or animal, or whatever it is, was seen at Tina Bar. It materialised behind several fisherman and chased them off! The frightened fishermen (running for their lives) made their way to the Fazio Farm and authorities were called to the scene. No trace of the phantom could be found! Not even footprints!

Now. We need to know how this creature got there. Did it swim in? Did it wash in? Did it walk in? Did the tide bring it in? Was it deposited there somehow?

Please give us any and all theories on how this creature could have come to be on Tina Bar. Time is of the essence as Public Safety is involved.

Im sorry, but we have no description of the creature - the nature of the creature does not matter. Common sense tells us that!

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Cooper Detection Committee (CDC)

*This should be another OVERWHELMING EXPERIENCE!
     

[Shutter]

Common sense is only a portion of my conclusion...

You have to show me that the current is revered a majority of time for it to gain distance upstream..you haven't shown this. what you have claimed is it occurs over an 8 hour period. how much of the river is affected by this..the entire lower river, if so, please direct me to this data.

I don't believe this is a common occurrence, or you would have everything upstream that has been lost over the years. along with lots of stories surrounding this problem..

you are basically say that if two people were pushing an object at the same speed, and one took a break. that person would cross the finish line first? this process would have to be greater than the natural flow to gain any distance..again, common sense. 

[georger]

common sense, and reading about the possibilities..and limitations...

Common sense is experiential bias..  not the best tool for dismissing complex unknowns

Assumptions are needed for intellectual inquiry but using assumptions to block that inquiry is stifling and regressive. Too much of that in this case..


Generally, the Ocean tide moves up river at bottom and river down top, if the Columbia surface flow reversed then that is powerful.

OK, as with all things religious and ecclesiastical - this either is or it aint! No Hocus Pocus, Shimy Shamy, or Ballyhoo in the Maldum Fornax.

Either show us an actual example of this bringing material on to Tina Bar from said direction(s) via said conditions or conduct an experiment and demonstrate your philosophy, ............. or punt and leave us free to read a magazine on polar bear mating! Enough of this gobblewobble.

 

* By the way Tiger, ph of the money was tested. No salinity! Oooooooooooops.

 

[dcmey]

That money was planted there, not long that long before the people found it to try and make it look like Cooper drowned.

pieces of money were found at different depths..a plant is no longer an option..

I can't find anything online saying that money was found at different dephts. I am not doubting what your saying but could post a link where I can see that. thanks

[Shutter]

Common sense is experiential bias..  not the best tool for dismissing complex unknowns

Common sense tells me after reading documentation about this that it can't happen as it's reported. my conclusions were not entirely reached by using common sense, nor do I care to look into this any further...

[Shutter]

That money was planted there, not long that long before the people found it to try and make it look like Cooper drowned.

pieces of money were found at different depths..a plant is no longer an option..

I can't find anything online saying that money was found at different dephts. I am not doubting what your saying but could post a link where I can see that. thanks

This is a small portion of a larger video, but explains the findings..


.

[MeyerLouie]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

no propeller theory,

We have Kermit's anecdotal plus hydrologist confirmation that the Columbia flow reversal goes well beyond TBAR..

Now, can it move some bundles of cash 15 km from the Lewis, that it the question. Seems hard to believe but it can't be ruled out with forum hyperbole.

Maybe a bag full of ping pong balls can get moved upstream 10 miles via flow reversal, but a waterlogged 20-lb bag of money rolling along the bottom of river, upstream?  Seems a bit of a stretch.  Would have to bre one heck of a flow reversal to get that money bag back to Tina Bar, past all the barriers that would come along as the bag flowed upstream.

I'll take what Al Fazio says about tides at Tina Bar, Bruce Smith, over what you say about the tides at Tina Bar, any day.  You're such an expert now after taking a little dip in the Columbia River on that hot, sunny day....right.  You're a Flatbush kind of guy alright -- mafioso or black leather jacket-motorcycle kind of guy - yeah, that's you, tough guy.

Meyer

[FLYJACK]

Common sense is only a portion of my conclusion...

You have to show me that the current is revered a majority of time for it to gain distance upstream..you haven't shown this. what you have claimed is it occurs over an 8 hour period. how much of the river is affected by this..the entire lower river, if so, please direct me to this data.

I don't believe this is a common occurrence, or you would have everything upstream that has been lost over the years. along with lots of stories surrounding this problem..

you are basically say that if two people were pushing an object at the same speed, and one took a break. that person would cross the finish line first? this process would have to be greater than the natural flow to gain any distance..again, common sense.

Flow reversal means flow reversal.. aka greater than the natural flow..

its strength and distance varies but evidence is that it reaches well beyond TBAR.

Does it have the strength to move "money" 10 miles in 8 hours? That is what I am looking at, but if one dismiss it entirely due to common sense bias, they'll never really know.

I am not claiming it can as a fact, I am suggesting we find out if it can.

Tidal flow starts at the river bottom, if surface flow reversal at TBAR is noted that suggests a very strong flow under the right conditions.

[Shutter]

I doubt even ping pong balls could travel backwards this long...I'm not doubting any reverse flow. I'm doubting how it could gain distance with less time against the natural flow, or direction of the river. this is a very long distance. in the bag, or bundles out of the bag all over the place.