Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 1045923 times)

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1590 on: March 02, 2018, 05:57:44 PM »
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Georger wrote: "The fact that ANY money was found outside its container, after Coop bailed, carries a strong chance ALL of his money was compromised somehow."

You have a point Georger.  If something was violent or forceful enough to cause some of the bills to escape, what would prevent the rest from following? I don't think he had isolated cargo compartments.

And R 99 is right, impact at terminal velocity would breach most loaded carry bags.

Ah that damn T Bar money. It just messes up so many otherwise plausible DBC theories.

377

R99 is correct. That is why Tom and Alan (a materials destruction expert) looked for signs of 'stress'. They found no telltale signs of stress. ? (compression, distortion, tearing, etc attributable to a catastrophic event.)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 05:59:00 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1591 on: March 02, 2018, 07:46:20 PM »
I wonder what the money bag looked like with McNally?
Also, notice how easy he found valuable information...

One thousand feet above the Boeing 727, from the vantage point of a military surveillance plane, an FBI agent observed a small, dark object falling rapidly from the rear hatch.

McNally dropped like a bullet, feet-first, and the first thing he perceived was the wind punching his flight goggles into his eye sockets. In seconds, the goggles were violently ripped from his head. McNally threw out his arms, bringing his body parallel to the ground as he began counting down from twenty in his mind. Basing his calculations on the formula for terminal velocity — which he'd learned in a library physics textbook — McNally figured that this would be enough time to slow his fall to a safe speed. If he pulled the chute too early, he knew, the air would shred the canopy like tissue paper.

The time came to test his math. McNally fumbled for the ripcord with his right hand, but he made the mistake of leaving his left arm outstretched. Instead of producing the serene, deliberate movements of an experienced skydiver, the wind took hold of his arm and slammed the hijacker into a furious spin.

In the midst of the chaos, the parachute exploded out of the chest harness and ejected its spring-loaded contents directly into McNally's face. Blinded and hurting, he managed to grab hold of the shroud lines above him. He tugged hard, and was rewarded with resistance as the canopy filled with air.

McNally was going to live after all. His hand strayed down to his left thigh, hoping to be reassured by its half-million dollars.

He could only look down in horror. The mailbag was twenty feet below him, and getting smaller and smaller by the second. As if in a dream, McNally watched the fortune tumble in slow-motion, end-over-end, until it slipped below the clouds and vanished.

Added: Three days later, searchers found the full money sack and gun in fields near Peru, Ind. A fingerprint led to their man, a bruised but alive former Navy sailor named Martin J. McNally, 28, of suburban Detroit. "Wilson" had $13 in his pocket.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 07:50:42 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1592 on: March 02, 2018, 07:56:52 PM »
Martin McNally interview....he doesn't talk about the hijacking until about 19 minutes into the video...amazingly, he doesn't remember the model of the gun....again, funny how the suspect witnesses have better memory once again  :rofl:

He speaks about a lot of things...this is a valuable interview...appears to be in 7 parts...


..
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 08:18:15 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1593 on: March 02, 2018, 08:50:31 PM »
Truly amazing stuff told by McNally..several attempts prior to the actual hijacking. he cased airports, and got the flight schedules very business like with his crimes...I'm only on part 2....he jokes about buying a round trip ticket stating United owes him $35 since he only went one way   :rofl:

Helost the money when the chute deployed..on his way down he was already planing another hijacking...

He also used an alias of Robert Wilson..he said this after talking about someone he knew that was a great counterfeiter, one of the best.....this guy gave him blank birther certificates...Melvin Wilson popped right into my head, so I notified Vicki...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 10:16:14 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1594 on: March 02, 2018, 10:25:03 PM »
Whew. This is great stuff. Minute-by-minute account. Actually a blow-by-blow retelling. I'm one-hour into it, on "Part 4."

Martin was paroled, not sure when, despite be sentenced to two life sentences for the hijacking. He's a weird guy. You can definitely see the cold, criminal, violent streak in him. A strange mix of savvy, clever, disorganized, bold and wacky. A surprising amount of planning went into the crime. Very different story than the one we got from media accounts at the time of the skyjacking. Google has a lot more info, too.

His interviewers are Gary Jenkins and Aaron Ginert, from Gangland Wire - True Crime Stories.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 10:27:25 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1595 on: March 02, 2018, 10:26:22 PM »
wait till the sheriff gives him a ride  :congrats:

He got out in 2010
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 10:30:59 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1596 on: March 02, 2018, 11:27:33 PM »
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I wonder what the money bag looked like with McNally?
Also, notice how easy he found valuable information...

One thousand feet above the Boeing 727, from the vantage point of a military surveillance plane, an FBI agent observed a small, dark object falling rapidly from the rear hatch.

McNally dropped like a bullet, feet-first, and the first thing he perceived was the wind punching his flight goggles into his eye sockets. In seconds, the goggles were violently ripped from his head. McNally threw out his arms, bringing his body parallel to the ground as he began counting down from twenty in his mind. Basing his calculations on the formula for terminal velocity — which he'd learned in a library physics textbook — McNally figured that this would be enough time to slow his fall to a safe speed. If he pulled the chute too early, he knew, the air would shred the canopy like tissue paper.

The time came to test his math. McNally fumbled for the ripcord with his right hand, but he made the mistake of leaving his left arm outstretched. Instead of producing the serene, deliberate movements of an experienced skydiver, the wind took hold of his arm and slammed the hijacker into a furious spin.

In the midst of the chaos, the parachute exploded out of the chest harness and ejected its spring-loaded contents directly into McNally's face. Blinded and hurting, he managed to grab hold of the shroud lines above him. He tugged hard, and was rewarded with resistance as the canopy filled with air.

McNally was going to live after all. His hand strayed down to his left thigh, hoping to be reassured by its half-million dollars.

He could only look down in horror. The mailbag was twenty feet below him, and getting smaller and smaller by the second. As if in a dream, McNally watched the fortune tumble in slow-motion, end-over-end, until it slipped below the clouds and vanished.

Added: Three days later, searchers found the full money sack and gun in fields near Peru, Ind. A fingerprint led to their man, a bruised but alive former Navy sailor named Martin J. McNally, 28, of suburban Detroit. "Wilson" had $13 in his pocket.

Good post!  :congrats:
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1597 on: March 03, 2018, 12:19:02 AM »
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I wonder what the money bag looked like with McNally?
Also, notice how easy he found valuable information...

One thousand feet above the Boeing 727, from the vantage point of a military surveillance plane, an FBI agent observed a small, dark object falling rapidly from the rear hatch.

McNally dropped like a bullet, feet-first, and the first thing he perceived was the wind punching his flight goggles into his eye sockets. In seconds, the goggles were violently ripped from his head. McNally threw out his arms, bringing his body parallel to the ground as he began counting down from twenty in his mind. Basing his calculations on the formula for terminal velocity — which he'd learned in a library physics textbook — McNally figured that this would be enough time to slow his fall to a safe speed. If he pulled the chute too early, he knew, the air would shred the canopy like tissue paper.

The time came to test his math. McNally fumbled for the ripcord with his right hand, but he made the mistake of leaving his left arm outstretched. Instead of producing the serene, deliberate movements of an experienced skydiver, the wind took hold of his arm and slammed the hijacker into a furious spin.

In the midst of the chaos, the parachute exploded out of the chest harness and ejected its spring-loaded contents directly into McNally's face. Blinded and hurting, he managed to grab hold of the shroud lines above him. He tugged hard, and was rewarded with resistance as the canopy filled with air.

McNally was going to live after all. His hand strayed down to his left thigh, hoping to be reassured by its half-million dollars.

He could only look down in horror. The mailbag was twenty feet below him, and getting smaller and smaller by the second. As if in a dream, McNally watched the fortune tumble in slow-motion, end-over-end, until it slipped below the clouds and vanished.

Added: Three days later, searchers found the full money sack and gun in fields near Peru, Ind. A fingerprint led to their man, a bruised but alive former Navy sailor named Martin J. McNally, 28, of suburban Detroit. "Wilson" had $13 in his pocket.

Shutter are you talking about the fellow who jumped from the over wing escape hatch of a DC-10, rather than a 727, over Indiana?  It seems that the Captain of the DC-10 was asked to slow the plane down but speeded up instead.  The jump was made at about 300 MPH and the hijacker lost most of his clothes.  The money was found in a farmer's field the next day.
 

Offline Darren

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1598 on: March 03, 2018, 12:38:35 AM »
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If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

That's the way I feel about it, but of course I like the story a lot more when it ends with him walking out of the woods.
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1599 on: March 03, 2018, 12:49:42 AM »
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If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

That's the way I feel about it, but of course I like the story a lot more when it ends with him walking out of the woods.

377's remarks could also suggest that Cooper did not live in the northwest even though he was familiar with the Seattle area.  Maybe Cooper had spent a lot of time out of the USA just before the hijacking.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1600 on: March 03, 2018, 02:02:20 AM »
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If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

That's the way I feel about it, but of course I like the story a lot more when it ends with him walking out of the woods.

377's remarks could also suggest that Cooper did not live in the northwest even though he was familiar with the Seattle area.  Maybe Cooper had spent a lot of time out of the USA just before the hijacking.

No missing person ever matched the dna or prints. Ever.


No non-missing person ever matched the dna or prints. Ever.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 02:03:52 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1601 on: March 03, 2018, 04:05:01 AM »
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Shutter are you talking about the fellow who jumped from the over wing escape hatch of a DC-10, rather than a 727, over Indiana?  It seems that the Captain of the DC-10 was asked to slow the plane down but speeded up instead.  The jump was made at about 300 MPH and the hijacker lost most of his clothes.  The money was found in a farmer's field the next day.


I think you might have Paul Cini and Martin McNally mixed-up, Robert. Shutter and these podcasts discuss the DB Cooper copycat, Martin McNally. On June 23, 1972, he hijacked American Airlines Flight 119, a 727.

The exact airplane Paul Cini stole back on November 13, 1971 is unclear. Most reports claim it was a DC-8, which has a side hatch in the rear fuselage. But some reports, especially GG's radio commentary, claim the plane was a DC-9, which had a rear stair. When the DC-9 became the MD-80 I don't know, but I think the later designation is what this plane is generally known as.

Lost his clothes? Hmmm. I haven't heard of anyone losing his duds. McNally confirmed that he figures the place was going 300 mph when he jumped. Heady, too.

I've never heard what McCoy's plane was doing, or at what altitude.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 04:25:55 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1602 on: March 03, 2018, 04:11:07 AM »
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If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

That's the way I feel about it, but of course I like the story a lot more when it ends with him walking out of the woods.

Or walking back into his hidden enclave. A few months ago we had an interesting discussion here about the various communities that exist in the United States that are outside the societal mainstream. I would love to hear what your thoughts might be about the camouflage capacities of:

1. Gypsy/Roma encampments.
2. Mafia compounds.
3. Cloistered religious communities.
4. Hobo/homeless communities.
5. Retired military living in the suburbs surrounding their active duty bases.
6. Indian reservations.
7. Recluses, such as the Unabomber or folks down in Slab City, California
8. Expats
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 04:15:58 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1603 on: March 03, 2018, 08:54:59 AM »
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If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

That's the way I feel about it, but of course I like the story a lot more when it ends with him walking out of the woods.

Or walking back into his hidden enclave. A few months ago we had an interesting discussion here about the various communities that exist in the United States that are outside the societal mainstream. I would love to hear what your thoughts might be about the camouflage capacities of:

1. Gypsy/Roma encampments.
2. Mafia compounds.
3. Cloistered religious communities.
4. Hobo/homeless communities.
5. Retired military living in the suburbs surrounding their active duty bases.
6. Indian reservations.
7. Recluses, such as the Unabomber or folks down in Slab City, California
8. Expats

On what basis? To what end? We could also discuss the Periodic Table! And then the Molecular table.

You live in a hidden enclave sneering at the world. How does that apply to DB Cooper?   

You are the Teacher. You must tell us what to do, and what materials to bring to class!


« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 09:09:46 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1604 on: March 03, 2018, 09:48:46 AM »
Quote
Shutter are you talking about the fellow who jumped from the over wing escape hatch of a DC-10, rather than a 727, over Indiana?  It seems that the Captain of the DC-10 was asked to slow the plane down but speeded up instead.  The jump was made at about 300 MPH and the hijacker lost most of his clothes.  The money was found in a farmer's field the next day.

No,this was a 727...this hijacking used several 727's..a car got on the runway and rammed the plane trying to stop the hijacking.

even though reports say McNally lost his pants when he jumped is incorrect according to McNally. he claims to have tossed his clothes out. this makes more sense when you look at the map showing where things were found. I have spoken in the past about the debris field being suspect.

Quote
Lost his clothes? Hmmm. I haven't heard of anyone losing his duds. McNally confirmed that he figures the place was going 300 mph when he jumped. Heady, too.

several sites claim McNally lost his pants when he jumped from the plane...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 09:56:46 AM by Shutter »