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Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 1047025 times)

FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1455 on: January 05, 2018, 04:11:13 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1456 on: January 05, 2018, 04:27:47 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers. 
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1457 on: January 05, 2018, 04:35:14 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

Key words: IN FLIGHT.  :)
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FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1458 on: January 05, 2018, 05:31:19 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

Key words: IN FLIGHT.  :)

One of the guys I am researching worked at McDonnell Douglas.
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1459 on: January 05, 2018, 08:40:25 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner to frustrate hijackers.
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FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1460 on: January 05, 2018, 08:50:23 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

I have read several accounts of the DC-9 having a Cooper Vane installed?? Why install them if the stairs couldn't opened in flight? 

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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1461 on: January 05, 2018, 10:16:06 PM »
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Was it possible for a third party to listen to the plane/tower comms?

according to Tom Kaye ham operators were listening in and helped with timing issues...

Please elaborate...

A young woman named Marianne Lincoln says that she listened to Seattle Center's communication with 305 via her father's VHF radio inside his plane, parked on the family's runway at the Shady Acres Air Field in Spanaway, WA. She was 14 at the time of the skyjacking.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 10:17:28 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1462 on: January 05, 2018, 10:23:02 PM »
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I've checked my records on Sluggo, but no response as of the moment. Robert 99 posted a few years ago on Sluggo. Any update, R99?

Read reply #1440 and later ones above.

I was thinking of personal communications with Sluggo. It's clear he has little or no interest in public communications. I sent an email to Sluggo at the address you posted in 2013 and it hasn't bounced back. I know that Sluggo contacted me by email a few years ago 2014 (?) during the beginning of his absence and said he was okay.

More telling is that his website ahs not been updated in several years. Not even to correct or update with new information. That tells me that Sluggo is no longer under the spell of the Vortex.

See 377, it is possible to escape...
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1463 on: January 05, 2018, 10:29:10 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

I have read several accounts of the DC-9 having a Cooper Vane installed?? Why install them if the stairs couldn't opened in flight? 

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Wikiwand certainly speaks authoritatively about the DC-9 having a Cooper vane, but I never heard of a DC-9 being outfitted with one. That's a cool pix of the CV, though. The COOPER exhibit at the WSHM had one on display that we could play with. The spring wasn't too strong. Pretty simple device.

One of the elements of the Cooper story that hasn't been discussed much is the impact of Norjak on airline safety. Specifically, I think it is important for us to have a better understanding of what regs and policies were implemented and when. If Norjak was a rogue operation to foster airline safety, how effective was it? That needs to be more fully researched.
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1464 on: January 05, 2018, 11:35:07 PM »
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I've checked my records on Sluggo, but no response as of the moment. Robert 99 posted a few years ago on Sluggo. Any update, R99?

Read reply #1440 and later ones above.

I was thinking of personal communications with Sluggo. It's clear he has little or no interest in public communications. I sent an email to Sluggo at the address you posted in 2013 and it hasn't bounced back. I know that Sluggo contacted me by email a few years ago 2014 (?) during the beginning of his absence and said he was okay.

More telling is that his website ahs not been updated in several years. Not even to correct or update with new information. That tells me that Sluggo is no longer under the spell of the Vortex.

See 377, it is possible to escape...

Wayne (Sluggo)  is selective about who he communicates with.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 11:35:38 PM by georger »
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Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1465 on: January 07, 2018, 04:17:25 AM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

I have read several accounts of the DC-9 having a Cooper Vane installed?? Why install them if the stairs couldn't opened in flight? 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Wikiwand certainly speaks authoritatively about the DC-9 having a Cooper vane, but I never heard of a DC-9 being outfitted with one. That's a cool pix of the CV, though. The COOPER exhibit at the WSHM had one on display that we could play with. The spring wasn't too strong. Pretty simple device.

One of the elements of the Cooper story that hasn't been discussed much is the impact of Norjak on airline safety. Specifically, I think it is important for us to have a better understanding of what regs and policies were implemented and when. If Norjak was a rogue operation to foster airline safety, how effective was it? That needs to be more fully researched.

Well, it certainly impacted the 727. But looking at all the skyjackings then (holy cow, some of them are odd - like the ones who forced an FA to knit their baby a hat on the way to Cuba!) it's kind of hard to say if one with no known fatalities and no exploded plane had more impact than events like 58 November. They'd certainly learned from Cooper to rig the parachutes with emergency locator devices, which is how they got LaPointe so fast.

I do note in this 1972 story about the threatened international pilots'  strike that United was fined $1000 after McCoy for failing to comply with passenger screening regulations. Was NWO also fined for the Cooper incident, or did the screening regs come into place after Cooper? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1466 on: January 07, 2018, 04:24:16 AM »
Cool link, Lynn, on the pilots' threat of a worldwide boycott due to hijackings. Wow. United got hit with a fine for allowing the McCoy skyjacking. I didn't know that.
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Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1467 on: January 07, 2018, 04:38:40 AM »
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Cool link, Lynn, on the pilots' threat of a worldwide boycott due to hijackings. Wow. United got hit with a fine for allowing the McCoy skyjacking. I didn't know that.

This seems to be a more detailed timeline, thought it doesn't exactly cause-and-effect particular cases to changes in regs. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I read a Wired article a while ago that mentioned airlines didn't want to screen during the Cooper era. They would only check a passenger with a wand if they were behaving suspiciously. Only 0.5 percent of passengers were screened.
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1468 on: January 07, 2018, 02:12:47 PM »
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Cool link, Lynn, on the pilots' threat of a worldwide boycott due to hijackings. Wow. United got hit with a fine for allowing the McCoy skyjacking. I didn't know that.

This seems to be a more detailed timeline, thought it doesn't exactly cause-and-effect particular cases to changes in regs. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I read a Wired article a while ago that mentioned airlines didn't want to screen during the Cooper era. They would only check a passenger with a wand if they were behaving suspiciously. Only 0.5 percent of passengers were screened.

In the 1970 time frame, in order to be screened to board an airliner, you needed to have a real dark skin.  I was never screened or saw a white person screened, but I did see black people screened routinely.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1469 on: January 07, 2018, 05:33:39 PM »
I was escorted by two US Air Marshals from my gate to my plane in Miami when I tried to board a flight to the Bahamas and was carrying a spear gun in my hand. They took the spear gun and stowed it on the airplane, and FAs handed it to me when we landed in Nassau.

You saw African Americans board a flight in the 70s? I have no memory of seeing anything like that. The only folks without white skins that I saw were Puerto Ricans (non-blancos, as they say) heading home to San Juan from NYC.
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