You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...and if he did it would greatly increase the possibility that he would not have a successful opening of the backpack that he took. 

Why do you say that?

The airliner was above an overcast and, since the crew reported rain, there were apparently cloud layers above them.  So it was pitch dark when he jumped.  Cooper would not have had any references to help him stabilize.  He could have pulled the ripcord while at the bottom of the stairs but there is nothing to suggest he did so.

If Cooper delayed pulling the ripcord for even a second after leaving the stairs, he would be tumbling and if he had an asymmetrical body load it would be some really bad tumbling.  And if he didn't pull the ripcord, he would be on the ground in somewhere between about 40 seconds and one minute.  If he did have an open canopy, then why wasn't it found unless he landed in an open field.  If he landed in an open field, it would be a miracle and just how many miracles do you get in one jump?

377 has posted on this very subject.  He has jumped on a sunny day with a small radio strapped to one leg.  He reports that he had to make adjustments to compensate for the aerodynamics of that small radio.

Naah

Dudeman, how many jumps have you made at night, in freezing rain, with no references to the ground, and with probably no shoes if you did get any kind of an opening shock?

I've never been one to keep track of numbers, but I've made a shit-ton of night jumps, night bandit jumps (unauthorized, out of friends' aircraft, over wherever we were), night base jumps, in a variety of weather conditions including freezing sleet, and I've never seen a night sky that was pitch black, can't-see-your-hand-in-front-of-your-face, with no visual reference whatsoever. And the relative wind is it's own reference.

I've made a shit-ton of barefoot jumps, though it's debatable whether Coop had penny loafers that would have blown off on exit. Some descriptions are of ankle high no-lace bootlets, and Flyjack has found examples of those with Vibram-type soles.

As for Cooper being thrown out of whack by possibly having a reserve container attached to his front, remember that in those days it was customary for jumpers to have a reserve container attached to their front. As for having other things (money bag) also attached, look how much stuff some military jumpers carry, and look at tandem jumps. I've made shit-tons upon shit-tons of jumps with live, fully grown, often uncooperative people attached.

And every jump I've made, I've gotten an opening. Every. Single. One.

Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to inform your perception.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dudeman, how many jumps have you made at night, in freezing rain, with no references to the ground, and with probably no shoes if you did get any kind of an opening shock?

I've never been one to keep track of numbers, but I've made a shit-ton of night jumps, night bandit jumps (unauthorized, out of friends' aircraft, over wherever we were), night base jumps, in a variety of weather conditions including freezing sleet, and I've never seen a night sky that was pitch black, can't-see-your-hand-in-front-of-your-face, with no visual reference whatsoever. And the relative wind is it's own reference.

I've made a shit-ton of barefoot jumps, though it's debatable whether Coop had penny loafers that would have blown off on exit. Some descriptions are of ankle high no-lace bootlets, and Flyjack has found examples of those with Vibram-type soles.

As for Cooper being thrown out of whack by possibly having a reserve container attached to his front, remember that in those days it was customary for jumpers to have a reserve container attached to their front. As for having other things (money bag) also attached, look how much stuff some military jumpers carry, and look at tandem jumps. I've made shit-tons upon shit-tons of jumps with live, fully grown, often uncooperative people attached.

And every jump I've made, I've gotten an opening. Every. Single. One.

Not trying to be a jerk, just trying to inform your perception.

Actually, I wasn't referring to a normal belly reserve.  I was referring to an asymmetrical loading that would be necessary if you had a belly reserve, money bag, and maybe other items attached to your front in some haphazard manner.  See the comments about 377's experience with a small radio attached to one thigh.

In my limited parachuting experience, I have also gotten at least one opening, sometimes more, on every jump.

Actually, I wasn't referring to a normal belly reserve.  I was referring to an asymmetrical loading that would be necessary if you had a belly reserve, money bag, and maybe other items attached to your front in some haphazard manner.  See the comments about 377's experience with a small radio attached to one thigh.

It's probably doubtful that he needed both the money bag and the reserve container. But even if he did, did you see the post NickyB made at dz the other day? Something that was discussed on this forum at some point in the past, but some guy, Gene Bland, noted that Coop could have attached the reserve clips onto the leg strap hardware. It would be lower than normal, but if he had the money bag on his chest and the reserve container suchly attached, that would be reasonably symmetrical.

I've got nothing but respect and regard for 377 and his experience, but I'd like to see him describing that radio as a major hassle. As opposed to some 230lb beer-drinking lunkhead who wants to go "Extreme!!" out the door rather than give me a good arch...

What are we referring to by “opening”?

I’m obviously not a skydiver…I won’t even go on my roof.

The parachute opening, as opposed to being a no-pull or it getting entangled on you preventing it from deploying.

House roofs are too low to save yourself, haha. Skyscraper roofs, on the other hand...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The parachute opening, as opposed to being a no-pull or it getting entangled on you preventing it from deploying.

Well it just threw me for a loop because Robert said he "got an opening, sometimes more on every jump" which made me think y'all weren't talking about parachute openings because of course your parachutes opened, otherwise you wouldn't be having this conversation, so I guess I didn't understand the point of talking about how you both had openings since that would seem to be self evident (because you'd be dead otherwise). So I figured openings must have meant something else...

Also, how would you get more than one opening on a jump? Can both your main and reserve be opened and not cause problems?

I was just indicating that I had to end up coming down on the reserve after the main chute had opened, more or less.  Thus, two ripcord pulls and two parachute openings in one jump.

From Eric's research on the dummy chute, it seems like Cooper wrapped some of the money in the chute within the container. As a result, Cooper really jumped wearing two bags of money.

There's no research. Just opinion. Nothing in the 302s or witness statements indicates the money was divided up.

Yeah, thanks Nicky for bringing this video to our attention. I watched it for the first time a couple of days ago. Interesting stuff, including that Bill is a comedian at heart.

I’m not a tandem jumpmaster. I’ve done a couple of water landings and a couple of night jumps. I’ve been jumpIng for over half a century. Had a couple of cutaways. Dudeman is a pro. I’m a casual fun jumper. I have a USPA D license and no other ratings.

Done a few dozen radio jumps sometimes carrying asymmetrical leg bags of various sizes, some big, some small. I stand by my earlier remarks. You can feel it. You have to compensate to stay stable.

But none of that matters much. If you pull you are VERY VERY likely to land alive even if you pull in a violent tumbling spin. When I learned freefall there were no tandem jumps, no jumpmasters holding onto you in freefall, you were basically on your own and had to figure it out. Before I figured it out I got in some incredibly chaotic tumbles that I couldn’t stop. I was taught to pull in that situation and of course that’s what I did. I was really afraid I would get wrapped up in suspension lines or my deploying canopy but that didn’t happen ever. I got good openings with the same kind of canopy that COOPER used.

I’m in Italy now hanging out with my son who is taking seaplane training at Lake Como. A few days ago he got the incredible and rare privilege of flying the Caproni 100 which is the oldest airworthy seaplane in the world, almost a century old. It still has the Original Alfa Romeo engine. Watch these videos. Listen to the sweet sound of that ancient engine.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Life is good.
377