Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1410641 times)

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2265 on: November 02, 2017, 04:31:00 PM »
If all white, almost certainly 26 ft Navy Conical. Rigger concurs.

377
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2266 on: November 02, 2017, 11:41:38 PM »
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...It seems to me a lot is being placed on Hayden's statement: the chutes were identical.... What's the big deal with finding out? Why would Hayden pull back and not want to pursue this? (in front of Bruce)....


Hayden is being circumspect, even secretive. The question is why, and I don't know.

When Norman told me that he didn't want any more contact with me due to the brewing controversy with Cossey, he claimed that he had "lots of important friends in the business and financial community and that he couldn't risk being seen as a 'pot-stirrer' " or words to that effect. I'm not sure what that meant, and it seemed pretty lame to me at the moment he told me, but I believe that Norman is responding to lots of hidden pressures. He was clearly afraid of being viewed as a pariah in the country-club set, though. He didn't mention any names, either.

I do know this: Norman lives an odd life. He lives in his machine shop, converting his office into a bedroom. But I saw no cooking facilities so I suspect that he eats out for most meals. His shop is quite large, and has a huge vehicle bay that houses a boat and several pick-ups and cars. One room in his shop is filled with incredible toy gizmos and replicas of early inventions from the 1700s and 1800s. Another room is filled with remote-controlled airplanes, at least a dozen adorn the walls and ceiling. All of it is meticulously clean and organized.

No one else worked there with Norman. Oddly, a couple of school children ambled by on their way home from school and seemed very comfortable checking in with their friend Norman. Norman in turn seemed to welcome their company, and I assumed that he doesn't have much social interaction with anyone on a regular basis.

When I posted my interview with Norman on the Mountain News, I received a cryptic email form a woman who claimed to be Norman's sister, and she alleged that Norman was not whom he said he was, not personality-wise, and could not be trusted. I tried to follow up with her, and the email address proved to be bogus. But she wrote back a second time with an even more mysterious statement, and again I met an unsuccessful follow-up.

I also tried to reach out to Norman's son, who was supposedly in Norman's life and aware of the DB Cooper connection. Sadly, the son never responded to my outreach. I'm not even sure I had the correct contact information.

In sum, it seems too incredible to believe that Norman and Coss didn't know each other. I think both were lying to me on that regard. But I don't know why at all. I could speculate, but then I'd just be spinning thoughts about bigger conspiracies and intrigues than I (or this Forum) can handle at the moment.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 11:44:57 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2267 on: November 02, 2017, 11:48:57 PM »
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...It seems to me a lot is being placed on Hayden's statement: the chutes were identical.... What's the big deal with finding out? Why would Hayden pull back and not want to pursue this? (in front of Bruce)....


Hayden is being circumspect, even secretive. The question is why, and I don't know.

When Norman told me that he didn't want any more contact with me due to the brewing controversy with Cossey, he claimed that he had "lots of important friends in the business and financial community and that he couldn't risk being seen as a 'pot-stirrer' " or words to that effect. I'm not sure what that meant, and it seemed pretty lame to me at the moment he told me, but I believe that Norman is responding to lots of hidden pressures. He was clearly afraid of being viewed as a pariah in the country-club set, though. He didn't mention any names, either.

I do know this: Norman lives an odd life. He lives in his machine shop, converting his office into a bedroom. But I saw no cooking facilities so I suspect that he eats out for most meals. His shop is quite large, and has a huge vehicle bay that houses a boat and several pick-ups and cars. One room in his shop is filled with incredible toy gizmos and replicas of early inventions from the 1700s and 1800s. Another room is filled with remote-controlled airplanes, at least a dozen adorn the walls and ceiling. All of it is meticulously clean and organized.

No one else worked there with Norman. Oddly, a couple of school children ambled by on their way home from school and seemed very comfortable checking in with their friend Norman. Norman in turn seemed to welcome their company, and I assumed that he doesn't have much social interaction with anyone on a regular basis.

When I posted my interview with Norman on the Mountain News, I received a cryptic email form a woman who claimed to be Norman's sister, and she alleged that Norman was not whom he said he was, not personality-wise, and could not be trusted. I tried to follow up with her, and the email address proved to be bogus. But she wrote back a second time with an even more mysterious statement, and again I met an unsuccessful follow-up.

I also tried to reach out to Norman's son, who was supposedly in Norman's life and aware of the DB Cooper connection. Sadly, the son never responded to my outreach. I'm not even sure I had the correct contact information.

In sum, it seems too incredible to believe that Norman and Coss didn't know each other. I think both were lying to me on that regard. But I don't know why at all. I could speculate, but then I'd just be spinning thoughts about bigger conspiracies and intrigues than I (or this Forum) can handle at the moment.

Psychoanalysis ? :)  Did Hayden eat your Halloween candy?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 11:49:29 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2268 on: November 02, 2017, 11:50:38 PM »
More on Norman Hayden:

I don't believe that Geoffrey Gray ever contacted or spoke with Norman. In fact, the only other journalist or researcher to directly contact Norman was Blevins, and from what Robert has written it sounds like Norman told him a very different story about the parachutes than he did me, especially in regard to the parachutes being identical. In fact, I think Blevs says that Norman told him the two chutes were different - the Pioneer and an NB-8, just like in the FBI summary docu.

But I strongly believe that Norman saw RMB for what he is and blew him off with a story that he knew Blevins wouldn't pursue or follow-up on.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2269 on: November 02, 2017, 11:52:52 PM »
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Psychoanalysis ? :)  Did Hayden eat your Halloween candy?


No, and I'm not offering any psychotherapy. I am simply relaying information that I think is reflective of who Norman is and gives some bearing to his statements about the parachutes.

But more to the point, Georger, why do you mock us so?

Does diminishing me make your statements grander? What's your agenda, here?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 11:54:01 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2270 on: November 02, 2017, 11:57:47 PM »
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Psychoanalysis ? :)  Did Hayden eat your Halloween candy?


No, and I'm not offering any psychotherapy. I am simply relaying information that I think is reflective of who Norman is and gives some bearing to his statements about the parachutes.

But more to the point, Georger, why do you mock us so?

Its no mock. It is a blunt assessment on my part that your parachute video (and your whole parachute prolegomena) is as much a psychoanalysis of the parties involved as it is anything to do with parachutes or the NORJAK parachutes in particular. You keep bringing up "personalities" and and offering personality profile assessments of these people ... reading their life histories from a few remote observations. Just issue a NORJAK parachute manifesto and get it over with!     :rofl:

I think that anger toward your subjects is not a successful interviewing technique?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:24:01 AM by georger »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2271 on: November 03, 2017, 06:35:13 AM »
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Psychoanalysis ? :)  Did Hayden eat your Halloween candy?


No, and I'm not offering any psychotherapy. I am simply relaying information that I think is reflective of who Norman is and gives some bearing to his statements about the parachutes.

But more to the point, Georger, why do you mock us so?

Its no mock. It is a blunt assessment on my part that your parachute video (and your whole parachute prolegomena) is as much a psychoanalysis of the parties involved as it is anything to do with parachutes or the NORJAK parachutes in particular. You keep bringing up "personalities" and and offering personality profile assessments of these people ... reading their life histories from a few remote observations. Just issue a NORJAK parachute manifesto and get it over with!     :rofl:

I think that anger toward your subjects is not a successful interviewing technique?


Who said objective journalist reporting was a requirement? 
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2272 on: November 03, 2017, 11:24:09 AM »
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...It seems to me a lot is being placed on Hayden's statement: the chutes were identical.... What's the big deal with finding out? Why would Hayden pull back and not want to pursue this? (in front of Bruce)....


Hayden is being circumspect, even secretive. The question is why, and I don't know.

When Norman told me that he didn't want any more contact with me due to the brewing controversy with Cossey, he claimed that he had "lots of important friends in the business and financial community and that he couldn't risk being seen as a 'pot-stirrer' " or words to that effect. I'm not sure what that meant, and it seemed pretty lame to me at the moment he told me, but I believe that Norman is responding to lots of hidden pressures. He was clearly afraid of being viewed as a pariah in the country-club set, though. He didn't mention any names, either.

I do know this: Norman lives an odd life. He lives in his machine shop, converting his office into a bedroom. But I saw no cooking facilities so I suspect that he eats out for most meals. His shop is quite large, and has a huge vehicle bay that houses a boat and several pick-ups and cars. One room in his shop is filled with incredible toy gizmos and replicas of early inventions from the 1700s and 1800s. Another room is filled with remote-controlled airplanes, at least a dozen adorn the walls and ceiling. All of it is meticulously clean and organized.

No one else worked there with Norman. Oddly, a couple of school children ambled by on their way home from school and seemed very comfortable checking in with their friend Norman. Norman in turn seemed to welcome their company, and I assumed that he doesn't have much social interaction with anyone on a regular basis.

When I posted my interview with Norman on the Mountain News, I received a cryptic email form a woman who claimed to be Norman's sister, and she alleged that Norman was not whom he said he was, not personality-wise, and could not be trusted. I tried to follow up with her, and the email address proved to be bogus. But she wrote back a second time with an even more mysterious statement, and again I met an unsuccessful follow-up.

I also tried to reach out to Norman's son, who was supposedly in Norman's life and aware of the DB Cooper connection. Sadly, the son never responded to my outreach. I'm not even sure I had the correct contact information.

In sum, it seems too incredible to believe that Norman and Coss didn't know each other. I think both were lying to me on that regard. But I don't know why at all. I could speculate, but then I'd just be spinning thoughts about bigger conspiracies and intrigues than I (or this Forum) can handle at the moment.

Hayden lives in his machine shop?  How old of a guy is he?  80?
 

Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2273 on: November 03, 2017, 12:28:55 PM »
Another thing to consider: the NB 8 container had considerably more pack volume than the NB 6. It was designed to contain the larger 28 ft C 9 canopy. A 26 ft Navy Conical in an NB 8 would be a loose fit. 

If the chute doesn't fit, you must acquit.

377
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:35:51 PM by 377 »
 
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2274 on: November 03, 2017, 01:35:48 PM »
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Another thing to consider: the NB 8 container had considerably more pack volume than the NB 6. It was designed to contain the larger 28 ft C 9 canopy. A 26 ft Navy Conical in an NB 8 would be a loose fit. 

If the chute doesn't fit, you must acquit.

377

Attached is Cossey's first FBI interview 11/26 following the hijacking.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:37:06 PM by georger »
 
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Offline 377

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2275 on: November 03, 2017, 01:57:43 PM »
So Cossey is saying DBC's jump canopy was all white flat circular and 28 ft. Sounds like a C 8 which for all practical purposes is simply a monochrome C 9.  Would be a VERY tight fit in a non extended (stock) NB 6. 

377

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:59:26 PM by 377 »
 

georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2276 on: November 03, 2017, 02:03:44 PM »
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So Cossey is saying DBC's jump canopy was all white flat circular and 28 ft. Sounds like a C 8 which for all practical purposes is simply a monochrome C 9.  Would be a VERY tight fit in a non extended (stock) NB 6. 

377

That was his original statement - I thought it might be appropriate to post it now in this continuing discussion ... I cant find anything by Cossey in the files released so far, that varies or changes his original statement(s). 

Keep in mind Cossey is not talking to Seattle only - he is issuing statements to other agencies and FBI offices/people. Through all of it his statement of description made to Seattle on 11/26 remains consistent.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 02:13:05 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2277 on: November 03, 2017, 03:09:03 PM »
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So Cossey is saying DBC's jump canopy was all white flat circular and 28 ft. Sounds like a C 8 which for all practical purposes is simply a monochrome C 9.  Would be a VERY tight fit in a non extended (stock) NB 6. 

377

That was his original statement - I thought it might be appropriate to post it now in this continuing discussion ... I cant find anything by Cossey in the files released so far, that varies or changes his original statement(s). 

Keep in mind Cossey is not talking to Seattle only - he is issuing statements to other agencies and FBI offices/people. Through all of it his statement of description made to Seattle on 11/26 remains consistent.

377, since you were active in parachuting on the west coast in 1971, was it possible to put a non-NB6 container on an NB6 harness?

It is my understanding that in the 1970 time frame, the west coast skydivers did whatever they damn well wanted to do regardless of the FAA.

So maybe Cossey's emergency parachutes were composed of canopies, containers, harnesses, etc., that he found on sale down at the local Army/Navy surplus store.  Perhaps Cossey's "NB6" only referred to the harness since it would be the most recognizable feature compared to other harnesses.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2278 on: November 03, 2017, 04:17:47 PM »
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Hayden lives in his machine shop?  How old of a guy is he?  80?


About that. I think he told me he was 78 when I interviewed him. That was a few years ago. Pretty spry, though.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2279 on: November 03, 2017, 04:28:04 PM »
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Another thing to consider: the NB 8 container had considerably more pack volume than the NB 6. It was designed to contain the larger 28 ft C 9 canopy. A 26 ft Navy Conical in an NB 8 would be a loose fit. 

If the chute doesn't fit, you must acquit.

377

Attached is Cossey's first FBI interview 11/26 following the hijacking.

This is a very important document, Georger. Thank you for discovering it and posting.