Author Topic: Suspects And Confessions  (Read 372542 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4110 on: May 18, 2019, 04:43:12 PM »
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My top suspect is still the Unabomber.  :rofl:

Screw the description and facts! He looked older than he was.  :nono:

After resigning from Berkeley in 1969, Kaczynski moved to his parents' home in Lombard, Illinois, then two years later, in 1971, to a remote cabin he had built outside Lincoln, Montana, where he could live a simple life with little money and without electricity or running water,[43] working odd jobs and receiving some financial support from his family. His money soon ran out. He quickly set up a routine which included riding into Lincoln on his bicycle to haunt the village library, and the bus station - where he became a regular. He began taking bus trips to Missoula which became his access to the outside world. He was seen at the Missoula airport where he would sit watching airplanes coming and going - while taking meticulous notes and making sketches?

Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski mailed or hand-delivered a series of increasingly sophisticated bombs that cumulatively killed three people and injured 23 others, some severely. In all, 16 intricately made bombs were attributed to Kaczynski all via trips he made to Missoula.  His top targets were airlines and universities.

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, Cooper said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

305 stopped at Missoula on its way to Portland!

R99 pans  Kaczynski but the facts are 305's schedule routed through Missoula including on the day of the hijacking, and Kaczynski had a relationship to Missoula in 1971. He may have known people there or knew like-minded people who also used Missoula as a transportation hub ... in 1971. Airlines and airline executives were on  Kaczynski's list of targets.  Kaczynski had a long stated grudge against the airlines. Cooper told Tina he had a grudge 'but not against your airlines'.  Kaczynsk was investigated for any connection to the Cooper case. People speculated that  Kaczynsk was DB Cooper, or might be somehow involved in the Cooper case.  Those are the facts. The relationship is a lot more tangible (factual) than most of the people brought forward in the DB Cooper case, and there have to be 302's related to  Kaczynski being investigated in the Cooper case by the FBI, which actually happened but at a later date than FOIA 302's covered in the Cooper case. A lengthy time period separates the Cooper investigation from when the Kaczynski started. But people wondered immediately if Kaczynski had had anything to do with the Cooper hijacking, once the Kaczynski investigation started.     

It is more tangible than any 'west path' R99 and Ulis have dreamed up ...    ;)

Georger,

Engage your brain before reading further.

First, Cooper didn't say that he had a grudge against ANY airline.  He just said he didn't have a grudge against NWA.

Second, his statement about NWA 305 just being in the right place at the right time means only that it was in Portland at the time he wanted to initiate his hijacking.  Remember that he asked the ticket agent if the incoming flight was a 727.  In asking that question he was only confirming what he already knew from the flight schedules and was just checking to make sure than another type aircraft had not been substituted on that particular day.  And remember that the Portland to Seattle service with a 727 at that particular time had only started about three months earlier.

Cooper carried on a conversation and otherwise interacted with Tina and the other flight attendants for several hours in a very social manner.  It is highly unlikely that Kaczynski could not do that.  And there is no evidence whatsoever that Kaczynski had any aeronautical knowledge of consequence.

Dream on!

Correct. C said 'right plane right place right time' which could mean he had been looking/waiting from someplace or this was a spur-of-the moment decision ?  How do you decide? You decide based on him saying he had a grudge; that is a long term affair. So at the very least he had a longstanding issue he was processing ... just as   Kaczynski had a long term issue he was processing (and talking to people about).

He asked if it was a 727. He wants rear stair hole to bail from. No more complicated than that.

You say he knew the schedule - he knew from where? No home computers that day. So perhaps from a place on the NWA route, like the Missoula airport ? It has to be a place or venue where NWA route skeds are posted.

Its a matter if speculation, but of course your speculations are better. You are a superior speculator. You are thee superior everything! The rest of us just schlep along compared to your superiorness!

Hope your brain hasnt swelled too much reading this!  :rofl:   
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 04:56:36 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4111 on: May 18, 2019, 05:02:25 PM »
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My top suspect is still the Unabomber.  :rofl:

Screw the description and facts! He looked older than he was.  :nono:

After resigning from Berkeley in 1969, Kaczynski moved to his parents' home in Lombard, Illinois, then two years later, in 1971, to a remote cabin he had built outside Lincoln, Montana, where he could live a simple life with little money and without electricity or running water,[43] working odd jobs and receiving some financial support from his family. His money soon ran out. He quickly set up a routine which included riding into Lincoln on his bicycle to haunt the village library, and the bus station - where he became a regular. He began taking bus trips to Missoula which became his access to the outside world. He was seen at the Missoula airport where he would sit watching airplanes coming and going - while taking meticulous notes and making sketches?

Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski mailed or hand-delivered a series of increasingly sophisticated bombs that cumulatively killed three people and injured 23 others, some severely. In all, 16 intricately made bombs were attributed to Kaczynski all via trips he made to Missoula.  His top targets were airlines and universities.

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, Cooper said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

305 stopped at Missoula on its way to Portland!

R99 pans  Kaczynski but the facts are 305's schedule routed through Missoula including on the day of the hijacking, and Kaczynski had a relationship to Missoula in 1971. He may have known people there or knew like-minded people who also used Missoula as a transportation hub ... in 1971. Airlines and airline executives were on  Kaczynski's list of targets.  Kaczynski had a long stated grudge against the airlines. Cooper told Tina he had a grudge 'but not against your airlines'.  Kaczynsk was investigated for any connection to the Cooper case. People speculated that  Kaczynsk was DB Cooper, or might be somehow involved in the Cooper case.  Those are the facts. The relationship is a lot more tangible (factual) than most of the people brought forward in the DB Cooper case, and there have to be 302's related to  Kaczynski being investigated in the Cooper case by the FBI, which actually happened but at a later date than FOIA 302's covered in the Cooper case. A lengthy time period separates the Cooper investigation from when the Kaczynski started. But people wondered immediately if Kaczynski had had anything to do with the Cooper hijacking, once the Kaczynski investigation started.     

It is more tangible than any 'west path' R99 and Ulis have dreamed up ...    ;)

Georger,

Engage your brain before reading further.

First, Cooper didn't say that he had a grudge against ANY airline.  He just said he didn't have a grudge against NWA.

Second, his statement about NWA 305 just being in the right place at the right time means only that it was in Portland at the time he wanted to initiate his hijacking.  Remember that he asked the ticket agent if the incoming flight was a 727.  In asking that question he was only confirming what he already knew from the flight schedules and was just checking to make sure than another type aircraft had not been substituted on that particular day.  And remember that the Portland to Seattle service with a 727 at that particular time had only started about three months earlier.

Cooper carried on a conversation and otherwise interacted with Tina and the other flight attendants for several hours in a very social manner.  It is highly unlikely that Kaczynski could not do that.  And there is no evidence whatsoever that Kaczynski had any aeronautical knowledge of consequence.

Dream on!

Correct. C said 'right plane right place right time' which could mean he had been looking/waiting from someplace or this was a spur-of-the moment decision ?  How do you decide? You decide based on him saying he had a grudge; that is a long term affair. So at the very least he had a longstanding issue he was processing ... just as   Kaczynski had a long term issue he was processing (and talking to people about).

He asked if it was a 727. He wants rear stair hole to bail from. No more complicated than that.

You say he knew the schedule - he knew from where? No home computers that day. So perhaps from a place on the NWA route, like the Missoula airport ? It has to be a place or venue where NWA route skeds are posted.

Hope your brain hasnt swelled too much reading this!  :rofl:

I hate to have to tell you this, but you don't know what you are talking about.  But in 1971, the airlines published a Manhattan telephone size book that listed all the airline schedules in the USA, including the type of aircraft used on each route.  These could be accessed at airline ticket agencies, libraries, and many other places.  In addition, each airline published their own schedules and routes with the same information.  The specific airline schedules were widely distributed.

Your claim that Cooper had a grudge against airlines is baseless.  Cooper was interested in a 727 because he knew from some source that he could lower the aft stairs and bail out through that opening. 
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4112 on: May 18, 2019, 06:50:09 PM »
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My top suspect is still the Unabomber.  :rofl:

Screw the description and facts! He looked older than he was.  :nono:

After resigning from Berkeley in 1969, Kaczynski moved to his parents' home in Lombard, Illinois, then two years later, in 1971, to a remote cabin he had built outside Lincoln, Montana, where he could live a simple life with little money and without electricity or running water,[43] working odd jobs and receiving some financial support from his family. His money soon ran out. He quickly set up a routine which included riding into Lincoln on his bicycle to haunt the village library, and the bus station - where he became a regular. He began taking bus trips to Missoula which became his access to the outside world. He was seen at the Missoula airport where he would sit watching airplanes coming and going - while taking meticulous notes and making sketches?

Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski mailed or hand-delivered a series of increasingly sophisticated bombs that cumulatively killed three people and injured 23 others, some severely. In all, 16 intricately made bombs were attributed to Kaczynski all via trips he made to Missoula.  His top targets were airlines and universities.

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, Cooper said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

305 stopped at Missoula on its way to Portland!

R99 pans  Kaczynski but the facts are 305's schedule routed through Missoula including on the day of the hijacking, and Kaczynski had a relationship to Missoula in 1971. He may have known people there or knew like-minded people who also used Missoula as a transportation hub ... in 1971. Airlines and airline executives were on  Kaczynski's list of targets.  Kaczynski had a long stated grudge against the airlines. Cooper told Tina he had a grudge 'but not against your airlines'.  Kaczynsk was investigated for any connection to the Cooper case. People speculated that  Kaczynsk was DB Cooper, or might be somehow involved in the Cooper case.  Those are the facts. The relationship is a lot more tangible (factual) than most of the people brought forward in the DB Cooper case, and there have to be 302's related to  Kaczynski being investigated in the Cooper case by the FBI, which actually happened but at a later date than FOIA 302's covered in the Cooper case. A lengthy time period separates the Cooper investigation from when the Kaczynski started. But people wondered immediately if Kaczynski had had anything to do with the Cooper hijacking, once the Kaczynski investigation started.     

It is more tangible than any 'west path' R99 and Ulis have dreamed up ...    ;)

Georger,

Engage your brain before reading further.

First, Cooper didn't say that he had a grudge against ANY airline.  He just said he didn't have a grudge against NWA.

Second, his statement about NWA 305 just being in the right place at the right time means only that it was in Portland at the time he wanted to initiate his hijacking.  Remember that he asked the ticket agent if the incoming flight was a 727.  In asking that question he was only confirming what he already knew from the flight schedules and was just checking to make sure than another type aircraft had not been substituted on that particular day.  And remember that the Portland to Seattle service with a 727 at that particular time had only started about three months earlier.

Cooper carried on a conversation and otherwise interacted with Tina and the other flight attendants for several hours in a very social manner.  It is highly unlikely that Kaczynski could not do that.  And there is no evidence whatsoever that Kaczynski had any aeronautical knowledge of consequence.

Dream on!

Correct. C said 'right plane right place right time' which could mean he had been looking/waiting from someplace or this was a spur-of-the moment decision ?  How do you decide? You decide based on him saying he had a grudge; that is a long term affair. So at the very least he had a longstanding issue he was processing ... just as   Kaczynski had a long term issue he was processing (and talking to people about).

He asked if it was a 727. He wants rear stair hole to bail from. No more complicated than that.

You say he knew the schedule - he knew from where? No home computers that day. So perhaps from a place on the NWA route, like the Missoula airport ? It has to be a place or venue where NWA route skeds are posted.

Hope your brain hasnt swelled too much reading this!  :rofl:

I hate to have to tell you this, but you don't know what you are talking about.  But in 1971, the airlines published a Manhattan telephone size book that listed all the airline schedules in the USA, including the type of aircraft used on each route.  These could be accessed at airline ticket agencies, libraries, and many other places.  In addition, each airline published their own schedules and routes with the same information.  The specific airline schedules were widely distributed.

Your claim that Cooper had a grudge against airlines is baseless.  Cooper was interested in a 727 because he knew from some source that he could lower the aft stairs and bail out through that opening.

OH! Yes - that was published years ago maybe by you - who knows who. So it was available at libraries. Good. Did Kaczynski's Lincoln or Missoula library where he spent so much time researching his victims have a copy? Did the airport at Missoula have a copy?

Keep posting your reminder stuff Robert. Its coming in very handy.

I never said "Cooper had a grudge against airlines." I said HE SAID: I have a grudge ... but not against YOUR AIRLINES". We dont know if his statement was generic or particular. My statement was "Kaczynski had a grudge. Part of his grudge was against airlines and airline executives one of whom he sent a bomb to and killed".

The question is (now read that again!): Is Cooper's grudge the same as or related to, Kaczynski's grudge? Cooper said: 'not against YOUR airlines". Cooper did not say: '''not against airlines'''.  Its just a question Robert. Dont let it spoil your whole life!   

You see, 305 did stop at Missoula before going on to Portland where the hijack started. You see, when someone says  "not against your airlines" that does not automatically eliminate 'all airlines' or airlines generically. I just find it odd that 305 passes through Missoula, a hotbed of political activism and a place someone could have seen the NWA schedule (according to you!) and a few hours later someone walks up to the NWA counter and asks for a ticket on that self same airplane, asking if it's (still?) a 727? As  you say: someone did his or her research at somewhere.

Its just one option. 

BTW Roberto. I started this topic just as an exercise. It checked a few boxes. Kaczynski's whereabouts on the day of the hijacking were checked out. Kaczynski was eliminated partly on that basis. But, 305 did land in Kaczynski's back yard, as it were.

Have a nice day Robert.  :chr2:
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 06:55:31 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4113 on: May 18, 2019, 08:23:26 PM »
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I hate to have to tell you this, but you don't know what you are talking about.  But in 1971, the airlines published a Manhattan telephone size book that listed all the airline schedules in the USA, including the type of aircraft used on each route.  These could be accessed at airline ticket agencies, libraries, and many other places.  In addition, each airline published their own schedules and routes with the same information.  The specific airline schedules were widely distributed.

Your claim that Cooper had a grudge against airlines is baseless.  Cooper was interested in a 727 because he knew from some source that he could lower the aft stairs and bail out through that opening.

OH! Yes - that was published years ago maybe by you - who knows who. So it was available at libraries. Good. Did Kaczynski's Lincoln or Missoula library where he spent so much time researching his victims have a copy? Did the airport at Missoula have a copy?

Keep posting your reminder stuff Robert. Its coming in very handy.

I never said "Cooper had a grudge against airlines." I said HE SAID: I have a grudge ... but not against YOUR AIRLINES". We dont know if his statement was generic or particular. My statement was "Kaczynski had a grudge. Part of his grudge was against airlines and airline executives one of whom he sent a bomb to and killed".

The question is (now read that again!): Is Cooper's grudge the same as or related to, Kaczynski's grudge? Cooper said: 'not against YOUR airlines". Cooper did not say: '''not against airlines'''.  Its just a question Robert. Dont let it spoil your whole life!   

You see, 305 did stop at Missoula before going on to Portland where the hijack started. You see, when someone says  "not against your airlines" that does not automatically eliminate 'all airlines' or airlines generically. I just find it odd that 305 passes through Missoula, a hotbed of political activism and a place someone could have seen the NWA schedule (according to you!) and a few hours later someone walks up to the NWA counter and asks for a ticket on that self same airplane, asking if it's (still?) a 727? As  you say: someone did his or her research at somewhere.

Its just one option. 

BTW Roberto. I started this topic just as an exercise. It checked a few boxes. Kaczynski's whereabouts on the day of the hijacking were checked out. Kaczynski was eliminated partly on that basis. But, 305 did land in Kaczynski's back yard, as it were.

Have a nice day Robert.  :chr2:

Would Kaczynski say "airlines" (plural) while referring only to NWA which is just one airline (singular)?  Give the man some credit for being familiar with the English language.  After all he probably had to do a bit of writing in English to get into and graduate from Harvard as well as doing the same thing during his PhD work.

You bet Kaczynski could get a copy of the NWA flight routes and schedules at the NWA counter at the Missoula airport, probably at the Missoula Library, and definitely at any travel agencies in Missoula.

NWA 305 passed through several other cities on the day of the hijacking.  You would probably have a better case if you checked into people who were in Seattle and Portland that day.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4114 on: May 18, 2019, 11:52:43 PM »
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I hate to have to tell you this, but you don't know what you are talking about.  But in 1971, the airlines published a Manhattan telephone size book that listed all the airline schedules in the USA, including the type of aircraft used on each route.  These could be accessed at airline ticket agencies, libraries, and many other places.  In addition, each airline published their own schedules and routes with the same information.  The specific airline schedules were widely distributed.

Your claim that Cooper had a grudge against airlines is baseless.  Cooper was interested in a 727 because he knew from some source that he could lower the aft stairs and bail out through that opening.

OH! Yes - that was published years ago maybe by you - who knows who. So it was available at libraries. Good. Did Kaczynski's Lincoln or Missoula library where he spent so much time researching his victims have a copy? Did the airport at Missoula have a copy?

Keep posting your reminder stuff Robert. Its coming in very handy.

I never said "Cooper had a grudge against airlines." I said HE SAID: I have a grudge ... but not against YOUR AIRLINES". We dont know if his statement was generic or particular. My statement was "Kaczynski had a grudge. Part of his grudge was against airlines and airline executives one of whom he sent a bomb to and killed".

The question is (now read that again!): Is Cooper's grudge the same as or related to, Kaczynski's grudge? Cooper said: 'not against YOUR airlines". Cooper did not say: '''not against airlines'''.  Its just a question Robert. Dont let it spoil your whole life!   

You see, 305 did stop at Missoula before going on to Portland where the hijack started. You see, when someone says  "not against your airlines" that does not automatically eliminate 'all airlines' or airlines generically. I just find it odd that 305 passes through Missoula, a hotbed of political activism and a place someone could have seen the NWA schedule (according to you!) and a few hours later someone walks up to the NWA counter and asks for a ticket on that self same airplane, asking if it's (still?) a 727? As  you say: someone did his or her research at somewhere.

Its just one option. 

BTW Roberto. I started this topic just as an exercise. It checked a few boxes. Kaczynski's whereabouts on the day of the hijacking were checked out. Kaczynski was eliminated partly on that basis. But, 305 did land in Kaczynski's back yard, as it were.

Have a nice day Robert.  :chr2:

Would Kaczynski say "airlines" (plural) while referring only to NWA which is just one airline (singular)?  Give the man some credit for being familiar with the English language.  After all he probably had to do a bit of writing in English to get into and graduate from Harvard as well as doing the same thing during his PhD work.

You bet Kaczynski could get a copy of the NWA flight routes and schedules at the NWA counter at the Missoula airport, probably at the Missoula Library, and definitely at any travel agencies in Missoula.

NWA 305 passed through several other cities on the day of the hijacking.  You would probably have a better case if you checked into people who were in Seattle and Portland that day.

Finally we agree on something. I thought Cooper's alleged use of 'airlines' plural was strange too ... "your airlines" when referring to NWA! I dont know. Were they more than one airline? Did they have airlines? Maybe he was talking about routes. Maybe he was nervous.  Would the genius Kaczynski have made such a malaprompter? You bet he would have, and did!

It was Kaczynski's use of unique, identical syntactically incorrect phrases (over time in several publications), that lead to his identification! Those unique phrases is one of the traits that got him nailed!

Ideolect profilers (FBI and private in addition to members of Ted's own family) quickly identified unique odd phrases that TK had used both in the new manifesto and in several previous publications ..... the odds of it being random or anyone else was 1:millions!. People knew immediately they had the Unambomber when his peculiar phrases popped up duplicated in TK's previous publications and the new manifesto. David Kaczynski's wife saw it first and she alerted David who then contacted a professional linguist/profiler. It then was passed on to the FBI. (Kathy Puckett, Terry Turchie ...)

So, is Cooper's use of "your airlines" a nervous accident, a slip of the tongue, or what? Who else was running around referring to "your airlines" in reference to NWA .... IF THIS ISNT A MISTAKE MADE BY SOME FBI TRANSCRIPT TYPIST OR OVER-ZEALOUS AGENT ! ??

In the case of Cooper, several other phrases are on the table: get the show on the road. The origin of that phrase is the Midwest, perhaps the Chicago area, during the circus era ( a common slang phrase by the 60's) ... from the area Kaczynski was very familiar with. A number of his early protest letters to the editor were sent to the Chicago Tribune.

But as I said before, all or this is old news and settled history.

 8)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 12:03:45 AM by georger »
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4115 on: July 09, 2019, 10:31:56 AM »
Does anyone see a resemblance
 

Online Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4116 on: July 10, 2019, 03:08:18 AM »
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My top suspect is still the Unabomber.  :rofl:

Screw the description and facts! He looked older than he was.  :nono:

After resigning from Berkeley in 1969, Kaczynski moved to his parents' home in Lombard, Illinois, then two years later, in 1971, to a remote cabin he had built outside Lincoln, Montana, where he could live a simple life with little money and without electricity or running water,[43] working odd jobs and receiving some financial support from his family. His money soon ran out. He quickly set up a routine which included riding into Lincoln on his bicycle to haunt the village library, and the bus station - where he became a regular. He began taking bus trips to Missoula which became his access to the outside world. He was seen at the Missoula airport where he would sit watching airplanes coming and going - while taking meticulous notes and making sketches?

Between 1978 and 1995, Kaczynski mailed or hand-delivered a series of increasingly sophisticated bombs that cumulatively killed three people and injured 23 others, some severely. In all, 16 intricately made bombs were attributed to Kaczynski all via trips he made to Missoula.  His top targets were airlines and universities.

In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, Cooper said ‘he had “a grudge but not against Northwest Airlines” adding ‘that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right time’.

305 stopped at Missoula on its way to Portland!

R99 pans  Kaczynski but the facts are 305's schedule routed through Missoula including on the day of the hijacking, and Kaczynski had a relationship to Missoula in 1971. He may have known people there or knew like-minded people who also used Missoula as a transportation hub ... in 1971. Airlines and airline executives were on  Kaczynski's list of targets.  Kaczynski had a long stated grudge against the airlines. Cooper told Tina he had a grudge 'but not against your airlines'.  Kaczynsk was investigated for any connection to the Cooper case. People speculated that  Kaczynsk was DB Cooper, or might be somehow involved in the Cooper case.  Those are the facts. The relationship is a lot more tangible (factual) than most of the people brought forward in the DB Cooper case, and there have to be 302's related to  Kaczynski being investigated in the Cooper case by the FBI, which actually happened but at a later date than FOIA 302's covered in the Cooper case. A lengthy time period separates the Cooper investigation from when the Kaczynski started. But people wondered immediately if Kaczynski had had anything to do with the Cooper hijacking, once the Kaczynski investigation started.     

It is more tangible than any 'west path' R99 and Ulis have dreamed up ...    ;)

Georger,

Engage your brain before reading further.

First, Cooper didn't say that he had a grudge against ANY airline.  He just said he didn't have a grudge against NWA.

Second, his statement about NWA 305 just being in the right place at the right time means only that it was in Portland at the time he wanted to initiate his hijacking.  Remember that he asked the ticket agent if the incoming flight was a 727.  In asking that question he was only confirming what he already knew from the flight schedules and was just checking to make sure than another type aircraft had not been substituted on that particular day.  And remember that the Portland to Seattle service with a 727 at that particular time had only started about three months earlier.

Cooper carried on a conversation and otherwise interacted with Tina and the other flight attendants for several hours in a very social manner.  It is highly unlikely that Kaczynski could not do that.  And there is no evidence whatsoever that Kaczynski had any aeronautical knowledge of consequence.

Dream on!
Robert, thank you for this:  "remember that the Portland to Seattle service with a 727 at that particular time had only started about three months earlier."  I was not aware of this, and it is interesting. The right place right time plane also happened to be a milk run between two cities closely connected by various means of transport, so it does segue in nicely with EU's idea that the skyjacker got back onto the road at some point and hit a motel on the outskirts of Seattle, where he'd already checked in.

Snowmann posted this a few years back on DZ, it gave me a little thrill despite not really providing new info...





« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 03:10:36 AM by Lynn »
 

Online Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4117 on: July 10, 2019, 03:17:27 AM »
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Robert99 quote [for some reason this quote thing ain't working right for me]: "I hate to have to tell you this, but you don't know what you are talking about.  But in 1971, the airlines published a Manhattan telephone size book that listed all the airline schedules in the USA, including the type of aircraft used on each route.  These could be accessed at airline ticket agencies, libraries, and many other places.  In addition, each airline published their own schedules and routes with the same information.  The specific airline schedules were widely distributed.

Your claim that Cooper had a grudge against airlines is baseless.  Cooper was interested in a 727 because he knew from some source that he could lower the aft stairs and bail out through that opening. "
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Totally agree on this. Cooper never said (1) that he had a grudge against ANY airline - Tina specifically had asked him if he had a grudge vs NWO and (2) come to that, Cooper never technically said the grudge was the reason for the hijacking. I could have a grudge against, say, my evil stepmother and maybe I think about it a lot, but I'm stealing money because I want to buy a nice house. Cooper wouldn't have mentioned any grudge had Tina not asked if he had one. And of course he chose the 727 for the aft stairs.

One more thing; whoever Cooper was, he not only knew about the aft stairs, he knew the design didn't include the later added vane or anything to prevent them being opened in the air. That's key. Knowing about the stairs is one thing; knowing whether or not anything's to stop you from opening them mid-air is another. He further knew they could be opened before take-off. Boeing had to be called to verify that during NORJAK. Points to either VietNam, Boeing, or both.

Oh, and Cooper is only quoted in TM interview #1 as saying "a grudge", Airlines is plural in NWO's name per the transcriber but it's not in quotes. In the second, Tina had already mentioned "Northwest Airlines", so him either saying or Tina quoting or the transcriber typing the plural isn't something from which you can really derive anything.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 03:45:14 AM by Lynn »
 

Online Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4118 on: July 10, 2019, 03:52:24 AM »
New question: Did the FBI fingerprint all the passengers to determine which drinking glass(es) were Cooper's? I'm wracking my brain but can't remember that coming up.

Back to the lights thing - GG mentions them in his book, but all his end notes regarding the flight description are very general. (Frustratingly so; he also quotes someone saying "Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump." We all know he didn't get his knapsack and was angry so putting that down to either whoever it was (doesn't say who's being quoted) mis-speaking or transcription error.)

Rataczak did not mention lights in the History doc. He did mention in one interview the following: "The F-106 drivers never saw him. It was blacker than the ace of spades out there. They just saw a flash of light from us and then he just vanished." Does anyone know if Himmelsbach mentions it in his book? Bruce had an article in TMN some years back about the discrepancies on this.

Am still wondering if anyone has spoken to anyone in the Emrich family about whether Linn  was the one who brought SP to the FBI's attention and if SP is (as I believe) the person he mentioned in one article as who he suspected of the crime.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 05:11:55 AM by Lynn »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4119 on: July 10, 2019, 04:39:04 AM »
None of the passengers that I've spoken with have ever mentioned getting fingerprinted.

On a similar track, I wonder if Tina has seen a pix of Hahneman and if she ruled him out. If Flyjack is reading these pages, perhaps he'll know.
 
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Online Lynn

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4120 on: July 10, 2019, 05:06:21 AM »
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None of the passengers that I've spoken with have ever mentioned getting fingerprinted.

On a similar track, I wonder if Tina has seen a pix of Hahneman and if she ruled him out. If Flyjack is reading these pages, perhaps he'll know.
Do you know whose pics she has seen? A lot of people say "We can presume she has seen X's picture" but the only one I remember for sure her having seen - and rejected - was RR's.

Hahneman still troubles me as a suspect just because his m.o. and demeanour were so different from DBC's - in the case of the m.o., he did things differently from DBC which were central to DBC getting out of that plane unimpeded - no going into the cockpit, bomb rather than gun, relay system via Tina - why would he have have fixed something that wasn't broke, so to speak?  And didn't one witness describe him as having an NYC accent?

If the passengers weren't fingerprinted, it seems a massive oversight - those cups come in stacks, so the chances anyone but DBC and the FA's fingerprints were on a given cup is slim. It would be an easy way to isolate a set of prints.

Would a watch count in most people's minds as jewelry? I always wonder if he wore one or if he was asking the time as he went, maybe I missed it in the transcripts.

A little off-track but for 377 and other sky sport enthusiasts, it looks like Linn Emrich authored a book in 1970 on the topic: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Sadly, his son Thor is also deceased, though I believe his daughter is still alive.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 05:16:11 AM by Lynn »
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4121 on: July 10, 2019, 09:27:04 AM »
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None of the passengers that I've spoken with have ever mentioned getting fingerprinted.

On a similar track, I wonder if Tina has seen a pix of Hahneman and if she ruled him out. If Flyjack is reading these pages, perhaps he'll know.
Do you know whose pics she has seen? A lot of people say "We can presume she has seen X's picture" but the only one I remember for sure her having seen - and rejected - was RR's.

Hahneman still troubles me as a suspect just because his m.o. and demeanour were so different from DBC's - in the case of the m.o., he did things differently from DBC which were central to DBC getting out of that plane unimpeded - no going into the cockpit, bomb rather than gun, relay system via Tina - why would he have have fixed something that wasn't broke, so to speak?  And didn't one witness describe him as having an NYC accent?

If the passengers weren't fingerprinted, it seems a massive oversight - those cups come in stacks, so the chances anyone but DBC and the FA's fingerprints were on a given cup is slim. It would be an easy way to isolate a set of prints.

Would a watch count in most people's minds as jewelry? I always wonder if he wore one or if he was asking the time as he went, maybe I missed it in the transcripts.

A little off-track but for 377 and other sky sport enthusiasts, it looks like Linn Emrich authored a book in 1970 on the topic: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Sadly, his son Thor is also deceased, though I believe his daughter is still alive.

Lynn: Bringing up the watch makes me think of how much information must have been missed when being put on the 302's.  Today in a police interview the conversation is likely recorded with video and audio. In court there would be a stenographer.  302's came up last fall around the Supreme Court hearings as well.  My understanding is that they are basically notes from the FBI interviewer (this came to the dismay of some who hoped the FBI would determine guilt or innocence).  This may be a question for Georger, but do we know how those interviews occurred?  Agent to witness. Agent writes down notes, or second agent takes notes?  Stenographer? Tape recorder?  It just seems odd that they would just take notes and then summarize, but maybe that was their process.  At least by the second Mucklow interview in Minnesota you'd think that they would realize this case was huge and that any little detail would help.

A watch may not be considered jewelry.  "Miss Mucklow, did he have any jewelry?" "No he didn't"  That is different than " Miss Mucklow, was he wearing a ring, or a chain, or a watch?"  Point being, if there were recordings or steno notes, I'm confident this group would be able to pick out some nugget of information that was missed.

 
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Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4122 on: July 10, 2019, 05:44:58 PM »
i think this is actually more accurate

 

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4123 on: July 11, 2019, 01:36:03 AM »
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i think this is actually more accurate
Thanks! A lot of guys kinda looked like one composite or another, though - who did you say this guy was again? Sorry, was offline for a while and it's tough catching up! It's funny - when I just saw the thumbnail from a distance, I though the second guy was Steve Carrell!
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: Suspects And Confessions
« Reply #4124 on: July 11, 2019, 07:20:36 AM »
In reply to lynn
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