new suspect for you! Too bad he gets so excited about the initals DBC as being important! And spent 15 years on this!

from Q2 2021
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History Corner: The most unbelievable theory about D.B. Cooper…and he may have been a seaplane pilot.
Bill Hoover, Retired Delta Airlines Pilot (via Bruce Hinds, edited by S.H. Cooper)

Best to sit down with a nice drink while reading this. I welcome comments... 

Well, here it is. I will state my case. As I said, I started this over fifteen years ago, and while I have a nice stack of files on this case, I have not gone into them in ages. That being said, I will be telling you some things as best that I remember them without digging up the files.


I fell from a ladder while trimming a tree a few years before my official age sixty retirement from Delta. That put me out on disability with a fractured spine and spinal fusion. When my age sixty rolled around in 2002, I officially retired. In retirement, I was on a website called PCN Death Notices. This site sends out the passing of fellow Delta pilots. The site was run by a lady named, Carol Faulkner. She and her husband were living in Arizona and both were retired from Delta. I think that Carol was from Human Resources. She still runs the notification site.

Well, one day, Carol sent out a death notice of a Delta pilot, a Donald B. Carter. She said that she had little background information of his passing, and further, she said that she could find no records of a Donald B. Carter being a pilot for Delta. Records did not show up at ALPA either. I found that fascinating and could not imagine how a multibillion-dollar airline corporation could not have one of its pilots within its records. Carol did say that there was another Delta pilot, a Roy P. Sandness, who had the same birth date as this Donald B. Carter. She closed by asking if any of the pilots could supply any further information about either of these two individuals.

As I sat at my computer reading this, I noticed that Donald B. Carter had the same initials as D.B. Cooper. I was making no connection between the two people whatsoever; it was just something that came into my mind. I was trying to remember what entailed the D.B. Cooper event, and with nothing to do at that moment, I Googled D.B. Cooper hijacking and started to read.

< he goes thru Cooper evidence >

So much for the evidentiary material, let's get back to our Delta pilot.

I took the information that Carol Faulkner put out and did a search of Donald B. Carter, who did not appear on any Delta records, and this Roy P. Sandness, the guy with the same birthday. What I found was that indeed a Donald B. Carter had gone to court and affected a legal name change. Now, some people who are baptized Brunhilda or Torkel, may go to court to change a first name that they do not like, and after a divorce, an ex-wife may go back to her maiden name, but what motivates someone to go all the way from Donald B. Carter to Roy P. Sandness?

I tracked this Roy P. Sandness back to his place of death, it was either North or South Dakota, I can't remember. I read his obituary, and it said that he was being buried in Canada. I was actually able to go to the church website and see the tombstone. It reads: "Donald B. Carter/ Roy P. Sandness." They are one in the same. They are one and the same Delta pilot.


then tried to trace this Donald B. Carter. He was raised north of Winnipeg on the edge of a huge National Forest. He had no father. He had a brother: Dan Carter. This Dan Carter was a test pilot for the Canadian Air Force and died in an airplane accident. Our Donald B. Carter was also a Canadian Air Force pilot. He hunted and fished, loved the outdoors, flew as a bush pilot. He would also have been familiar with the French comic book. He also would have been familiar with parachutes. He was a loner. He never married until after he retired from Delta.

This Donald B. Carter made his way across the U.S. border and went to work flying for Northeast Airlines in Boston. I have talked to a Northeast pilot who remembered him. He also had a girlfriend in Boston. She worked for Northeast. When we tried to interview her, she said that if it had anything to do with Donald B. Carter, she would not discuss it. Can you imagine that after all these years? Donald B. Carter eventually qualified as a captain on the Boeing 727 with Northeast. He subsequently went to Delta when Delta bought Northeast.

It appears that he was based in Atlanta, but there is also some information that he was also in Miami. Remember the guy with the tan and the sunglasses? Subsequent to the hijacking, he went to court and changed his name. He then went out on medical with Delta and later retired. FAA records show that, though he had no medical after leaving Delta, he bought a seaplane. Records also indicate that he had owned a seaplane in Canada years earlier, and at the time of the hijacking.  So, why and how did he do it. Except for the one package of money that has been found at Tena's Bar on the Columbia River, none of the money has ever turned up.

The FBI had the serial numbers for each and every bill and all the banks were on alert. This was not done for the money. He was a wealthy airline pilot, no kids, no family; he did not need the money. He did this to prove to himself that it could be done. One of the loose ends in all this is the comic book illustrator in Belgium. I just wonder if Donald B. Carter was not feeding him story lines. After all, his dead brother had been a Canadian Air Force Test pilot, and the comic book character's name was used to check in for the hijacked flight. I believe that Donald B.  Carter never got over the death of his brother, and I believe he was the source of the comic book lines for the Belgian illustrator.  Regardless of how much we are at attention for our cockpit duties in flight, we all daydream somewhat.

I think that Donald B. Carter did a lot of this. I think he daydreamed of how someone could hijack a civilian airliner and jump out of it. He knew exactly how the stairs operated. He knew exactly the flap settings and speeds. He knew the route that he wanted and the jump point.  I found some relatives of Donald B. Carter/Roy P. Sandness and interviewed them over the phone. They were very cooperative. I was upfront with them and said that I was wondering if their now Roy P. Sandness could be D.B. Cooper. They said they would not doubt it. They also told me that Donald B. Carter had a cabin on a lake in Canada, just over the U.S.  border near Seattle. They said that the cabin was only accessible via seaplane. They said that nobody had been back to the cabin since Carter had died. And, there is the second loose end. A trip to that cabin may be in order. You just may find the parachute or even some money.

So, in summary, what do I think? I think that Donald B. Carter never got over the death of his brother. I think he was the source for the comic book story lines for the Belgian illustrator. I think he had spent a lot of time planning this hijacking. I think he was totally familiar with the Boeing 727. I think he probably flew from his cabin in Canada down to the Portland area and landed and tied up the airplane somewhere on the Columbia River. He then got on the hijacked flight and carried out exactly what he had imagined would be necessary to accomplish the feat. He did not do this for the money. This was something mental. He exceeded the boundary of what he had only been imagining and tried to put it into reality. He was totally comfortable in the wilderness. He was familiar with parachutes. He would have owned a black tie. He was based in Miami at the time and would have had a tan and owned sunglasses. He was a loner and nobody would have reported him missing or asked where he had been. I believe that after the jump, he made his way back to the seaplane on the Columbia River and flew back to his cabin on the Canadian lake. I believe the single pack of money found near Tena Bar years later was something that he accidentally dropped.

When he first went to Delta, the airline was not flying to Portland, so he did not have to show up in that airport where someone might recognize him. However, later on Delta did start service to Portland, and I think at this point it became a risk if he were to return to that airport and be recognized. It is at this point that he goes out on medical, changes his name, and disappears from Delta records.

Ohhhh, this is fascinating stuff. One of the more interesting suspects in a while, IMO, though I do have a couple of reservations.

Being Canadian, I can certainly verify that he could have had access to the comics; close to 10% of Manitobans can speak both languages, though I don't know when French became an elementary school requirement, as it was in my youth in the 1970s-80s. Anyway, the community itself was large, and the comics could have been found in someone's home, at a francophonie meeting, really anywhere. I also know that in Canada (perhaps in the US as well?) you can change your name to anything you want; I know one guy who chose the name Roman X over Mike Y for no reason except that he hated his father and liked the name Roman. But to change from one fairly common name to one slightly less common but not especially memorable is kind of interesting. The matching initials are interesting but there are only 26 letters so could also be coincidence. He could probably have hopped over to Canada and exchanged the bills without great notice (if, as mentioned, the money was of any interest to him at all - I think it was as he went through all that trouble to fashion a giant money-belt - but if it wasn't, he could have ditched the money midair for all we know.) And reports were that Cooper was EXCITED about the money. The fact this suspect knew the 727 is interesting, but he's far from alone in that.

BTW, do you know if he had any Indigenous ancestors? There is a large population in Manitoba and could account for skin tone as easily as life in Miami could. Grudges aren't hard to come by; our last residential school only closed in the 90s and only now are the bodies of young children being found in the thousands. But most have nothing to do with air travel.

My biggest question with this suspect, in fact, would be motive. His brother died when he was young, but how does skyjacking 200K avenge that (unless he blamed Boeing for his brother's death)? I have always largely thought of the DBC case to be a hijacking for profit; if the money was intended for a political cause, we don't know what it was. And why hijack an American plane if his brother's death was to do with the Canadian Armed Forces?

That other would-be hijacker, Paul Cini, was Canadian and had only recently made his attempt; could be it was bigger news here than in the US, given how common hijackings were - and he also tried to use a parachute. Even if the suspect lived in the woods, he could have heard it on the radio. So that's one point for the OP.

Anyway, everything fits well enough except motive, though that's no small consideration, and is there a photo somewhere of the guy? Do you know the location of the cabin, if it still stands, is owned? If it remains as Carter left it, someone really should have a look. Unfortunately, Ontario is a long way from BC, but there are more than enough adventurers west of the Rockies to give it a go. On the minus side for this suspect, it's also hard to imagine an abandoned cabin that none of the sportier types in the region - literally an extension of the US PNW - would have wandered upon, no matter how isolated. Tons of boaters, seaplane lovers, wanderers about. Would need to know a lot more about this guy to call him DBC.

So McCoy, who is worth the entertaining story himself, escaped with a soap gun made from toothpaste.   A common method in prison.  Shot dead 3 months later.  I kind of feel sorry for McCoy.  Buy I cannot imagine him tipping Flo $18 for a drink.  No way was he DB Cooper.  I wonder how many of these people confessed.  Many for sure. 

As I understand it, there is no evidence that the stolen money was spent or in circulation.  Would that extend to US currency spent in Canada?  Is it possible the money was brought to Canada, spent and went unnoticed?

Just about anything is possible.  Based on my experiences in Canada in the 1960s/1970s time frame, it would be very easy for the money to get back into circulation somewhere in the eastern part of the country without attracting ANY attention.  That is after you managed to convince your waiter/bartender that you were not interested in them sending you a bottle of liquor in the USA.  Changing US bills to Canadian bills was easily done anywhere and everywhere.  Those were the good old days!

Passing the money anywhere outside the US and Canada would be extremely easy. 

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As I understand it, there is no evidence that the stolen money was spent or in circulation.  Would that extend to US currency spent in Canada?  Is it possible the money was brought to Canada, spent and went unnoticed?

Based on Darren's interview with Arthur Friedberg, a numismatist and the guy who literally wrote the book on money (A Guide Book Of United States Paper Money), it would be virtually impossible for any of the money to have been spent and not have popped up by now.

Chaucer, do you know how many billion $20 US bills were in circulation globally in 1971 and subsequent years?   And you are only looking for 10,000 (9998 to be exact) of them.  I doubt very much if the barmaids in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City) and other such places bothered to check the serial numbers of the bills they received.

Believe whatever you like, Bob.

I am merely re-stating the opinion of an expert in the matter.

I would encourage you to give that episode a listen.

Did that expert speak to the scenario of money being used out of country?  Bills are removed from circulation all the time and as I understand it, the Federal Reserve are the ones who do it.  But is it possible that authority is delegated to the Bank of Canada for bills within Canada?  Or is the process by which Canadian banks return currency to the Federal Reserve somehow different where currency numbers aren't checked?

I would have to give the episode a re-listen but I’m fairly certain he touched on the scenarios you mention.

The point is that the odds for that many 20s to enter circulation and not be flagged for 50 years would be infinitesimally small. The most logical conclusion to draw would be that the money was never spent.

Chaucer, would you go along with the scenario that, after depositing a few bundles at Tena Bar, the money bag and the rest of the bills went on down the Columbia River?

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As I understand it, there is no evidence that the stolen money was spent or in circulation.  Would that extend to US currency spent in Canada?  Is it possible the money was brought to Canada, spent and went unnoticed?

Based on Darren's interview with Arthur Friedberg, a numismatist and the guy who literally wrote the book on money (A Guide Book Of United States Paper Money), it would be virtually impossible for any of the money to have been spent and not have popped up by now.

Chaucer, do you know how many billion $20 US bills were in circulation globally in 1971 and subsequent years?   And you are only looking for 10,000 (9998 to be exact) of them.  I doubt very much if the barmaids in Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City) and other such places bothered to check the serial numbers of the bills they received.

Chaucer: I remember that podcast.  The guest was not familiar with the case, and as I remember, did not know if the US government had even checked bills marked for destruction.  What part of the podcast explains how the money would have been found? We know from FBI comments that most people were not looking for those bills after about six months.   There were over a billion notes from 1969 and 1963A printed, that's a lot to check.  The guest may be an expert on money, but he was completely unconvincing on how someone would have found the money.

You've been saying that Cooper died, which I'm guessing means you are at least 51 to 49 on him dying.  Yet many of Darren's guests have stated that they think Cooper lived.  One guest with limited knowledge of the case says that Cooper could not have spent the money, and you use this as gospel, but don't acknowledge the statements of the guests that say Cooper lived? 

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Chaucer: I remember that podcast.  The guest was not familiar with the case,

IMO, this is irrelevant. The Cooper money wasn't magical or special. The guy is an expert on US currency, and he stated that if the Cooper money had entered circulation, it would have popped up somewhere along the line in the last 50 years.

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and as I remember, did not know if the US government had even checked bills marked for destruction.

Friedberg later clarified that the serial number recording began in the 1990s. My source says it was the early/70s. Pick your poison, I suppose.

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What part of the podcast explains how the money would have been found?

First, you should listen to the podcast again. Second, any cash transactions over $10,000 would have been flagged. Any repeated transactions of $5000 or more would have been flagged. Friedberg also said that bank tellers are a lot savvier than they are given credit for, and are able to look at identifying information without needing to cross-reference a long list of non-sequential numbers. Also, the life span of a $20 bill was less than 8 years. Friedberg is THE expert on currency. If he says that at least one or two bills would have popped up, I believe him. I know that might be inconvenient for some people's theories, but...

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We know from FBI comments that most people were not looking for those bills after about six months.

The FBI might have stopped looking, but please see above.

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There were over a billion notes from 1969 and 1963A printed, that's a lot to check. 

Here is the expert's exact quote:

"The 63As...they printed, just for the San Francisco District, 169,120,000. For the 69, also only San Francisco, they made 103,840,000."

So, your statement that there were over a billion notes of the 1969 and 1963As printed is inaccurate. The total number was 272,960,000. Remember, the bills that Cooper received were almost exclusively for the SF District.

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The guest may be an expert on money, but he was completely unconvincing on how someone would have found the money.

He is the preeminent expert on US currency. If he repeatedly and emphatically states that at least some of the Cooper bills would have been located by now, then I believe him. If you choose to ignore expert opinions in favor of your own, feel free.

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You've been saying that Cooper died, which I'm guessing means you are at least 51 to 49 on him dying.

I'm actually 50/50 on him dying. He either did or he didn't. Basic statistics.

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Yet many of Darren's guests have stated that they think Cooper lived.

And I have heard those opinions and have softened my own as a result. That is what a good investigator does:  accept new information and change one's mind if necessary.

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One guest with limited knowledge of the case says that Cooper could not have spent the money, and you use this as gospel, but don't acknowledge the statements of the guests that say Cooper lived?

Again, his knowledge of the case is irrelevant. Cooper's money is just money. He doesn't have to know the flight path to know what happens to the money if it is laundered overseas. Also, yes, I will accept the opinion of the guy who literally wrote the book on US currency over the opinions of some Cooper researchers who believe Cooper maybe survived. For example, Martin Andrade has a wonderful book with a very good research paper pertaining to the survivability of the Cooper jump. It moved the needle on my opinion of his survivability. That said, I think even Martin would admit that Friedberg's expertise on money far exceeds his knowledge of parachute survivability.

Also, you're using the logical fallacy of "Tu quoque".

As I said before, if an expert's opinion is inconvenient for your theory, you have a choice. You can dismiss the expert and claim you know more than he or she does. Or you can change your theory.

Do what you want.

Cheers!

Chaucer: I did listen to the podcast again, and have heard it a number of times.  It's only 32 minutes long.  The meat of what he says is around 8 minutes to 10 minutes in. Here are some excerpts:


About 8 minutes in, Darren says something like "When the Treasury destroys bills, do they keep track of the serial numbers?"  The guest says this exactly "To be honest I don't know. I would assume they do."  He doesn't know?? He assumes??

Darren says "You can't be sure they recorded every number?"  The guest says it would be counterproductive and a waste of taxpayer money.  He also says that before scanning "I can't see them doing every one"

At 10:30 Darren asks "Could he have spent the money?"  The guest responds with "He probably could have" then at 11:11 he says "yes he certainly could have spent them"

At 13:13 Darren asks "Do you think his money was spent in the United States?"  The guest responds with "I have no opinion on that at all, I just don't know"


The guest can't explain how the bills would have been found in circulation.  He believes he died.  He thinks if the bills went into circulation that they would have been found due to their deteriorated condition like the Ingram bills, or found if they were spent in huge amounts.  Cooper would have been an idiot to go somewhere and spend a huge stack of $20's.

He said there was no buzz in the collector's world about the money until the Ingram find.  So collectors probably were not looking for these bills in 1971-72.


At 28 minutes in Darren talks to him about the money find and the guest is not too sure about that part of the case. Wouldn't that be important?

I've researched the money, quite a bit actually.  I spent hours going through the list in Tosaw's book. I assume you have that book and have done the same.  You obviously have not read my posts though.  Total $20s in circulation for 1963A were 821 million notes, and for 1969 it was 607 million.  San Francisco had about 7500 of the notes, leaving 2500 spread across 11 other Reserve Banks.  Nowhere in the files does it say the FBI said to focus just on the notes from San Francisco.  I've stated before that they should have just focused on this Reserve Bank.


I don't ignore expert opinion in favor of my own.  I listen to opinions, facts, etc.  This guest is an expert in money, but he was unconvincing in explaining how Cooper's money would have been found.  Your argument is flawed.  You try to discredit me by saying I don't listen to experts, and you say because an expert said "this happened" then it must be true.

You state: "As I said before, if an expert's opinion is inconvenient for your theory, you have a choice. You can dismiss the expert and claim you know more than he or she does. Or you can change your theory."

He's an expert on money, but can't confirm if the serial numbers were recorded.  So his opinion is not inconvenient for my theory, and I don't need to change my theory.  He's simply not able to convince us that the money was not spent.  He convinces you apparently.

There are 32 minutes in the podcast, here is the link -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yaKjWFq0ss-  I recommend people listen to it.  If you are short on time, just listen from 8 minutes to 10 minutes in.

So now you are 50/50 that Cooper lived or died right?  That's what you're saying?

I started thinking Cooper could not have spent the money, then over time I changed my mind.  Should I change it back now?  That's what  a good investigator does?

I'm not going to pile on you anymore than people already have.  No need for the "cheers", we aren't drinking buddies.