New Forum & News Updates

[georger]

Type in ticket counter and you should see it...nothing there other than the photo

oh well ... tried everything I can think of ... lost to the forum.

I found it by searching under "feedback", as that was what David was looking for. It's on this thread: New Forum & News Updates - p. 293. It was just before TC "left the game" and then didn't, so everyone probably got a little distracted. It's a good read. A few typos (I used to teach ESL so I proofread through force of habit) and I do have questions about some of the points (esp. the newspaper), but overall I enjoyed it and was delighted by the details. Again, ANYTHING anyone has on the interior of Portland airport at that time - or downtown Portland in general, for that matter - would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the help Lynn. I see nothing in his post on that date about the ticket counter - what I do see is an attachment he made. In that word doc attachment he talks about the ticket counter? So I guess his ticket counter points are in that word doc. at the end of his post?

[Robert99]

Tidal surge update

A few months back we were discussing tidal surges, reverse flow, and other seemingly bizarre aspects of hydrology. During that time a foot encased in a sneaker washed ashore in British Columbia. More information on the subject of the ensuing investigation is now available:

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Bruce, several of the previous feet found were connected to missing people who were identified using DNA techniques.  Apparently, some nut likes to cut off the feet of people who are wearing sneakers.  Everyone seems to have a fetish and I guess that is how this character gets his rocks off.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Nope. You're wrong on this one, R99.

Research has been done on how decomposition occurs when sneakers are worn. I saw a documentary on it, done by the Canucks. The sneakers tend to float and position the body upside-down in the water column. Fish and marine organisms feed on the carcass, and the bodies tend to discorporate at joints, in particular knees and feet, as only minimal amounts of ligaments bind them to the larger body.

DNA has identified the majority - but not all - of the victims. Most are suicides, boating accidents, or bizarre events at the ocean, such as the two women two weeks ago who got caught by rogue waves in WA while they were clamming at 9 pm and swept out to sea. The two were later washed back in, but not all bodies respond similarly. Some go far out and will travel to BC.

[Lynn]

Type in ticket counter and you should see it...nothing there other than the photo

oh well ... tried everything I can think of ... lost to the forum.

I found it by searching under "feedback", as that was what David was looking for. It's on this thread: New Forum & News Updates - p. 293. It was just before TC "left the game" and then didn't, so everyone probably got a little distracted. It's a good read. A few typos (I used to teach ESL so I proofread through force of habit) and I do have questions about some of the points (esp. the newspaper), but overall I enjoyed it and was delighted by the details. Again, ANYTHING anyone has on the interior of Portland airport at that time - or downtown Portland in general, for that matter - would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the help Lynn. I see nothing in his post on that date about the ticket counter - what I do see is an attachment he made. In that word doc attachment he talks about the ticket counter? So I guess his ticket counter points are in that word doc. at the end of his post?

Hm, let me have a look. I was actually interested in the overall interior of the Portland airport (also that of LAX as my non-Cooper protag passes through there - all I know is it looks like a spaceship) just to add detail to my fiction.

I see the Bunce mural was near the ticketing area at the time, has since moved around. "Now defunct Airlines such as Eastern, Western and Pan Am graced the ticket counter area. The Zodiac Room overlooked parts of the runway and terminal, allowing those sitting down for a meal a warm, dry, comfortable view of the operations outside. This was no chain restaurant. A uniformed waitress complete with small, white  hat took your order and served the meal."

 "A line of customers stretched before Northwest Orient (NWO) employee Dennis Lysne standing behind the ticketing counter". (ref:   The total number of passengers derived from the following lists:  “Correspondence, receipts, and other documents.” 2013. Washington State Historical Society (WSHS) Collections: DB Cooper. 2011–2013; FBI documents reproduced on "The D. B. Cooper Project." True.Ink. Dennis Lysne’s encounter with Cooper: "Ex–ticket vendor says List not D.B. Cooper." UPI.com. July 01, 1989. Accessed December 5, 2016. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login–ticket–vendor–says–List–not–DB–Cooper/2283615268800/; "FBI Records: the Vault–D. B. Cooper," FBI.com, February 03, 2017, File# 164–87–52, accessed July 2017, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login–B–Cooper%20. As to ticketing procedures at that time: "John Maximuk oral history transcript," Washington State Historical Society  Collections, August 17, 2013, accessed December 2016, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. )

Footnote: "There has been confusion over the years as to who “sold” the ticket to Cooper. Researching this, Hal Williams came up at times. Dennis himself and FBI records show he as ticket agent did so. Williams was the NWO gate agent. In addition, there is credible evidence to show Cooper did not write his own name on the boarding pass. As was the procedure at that time, Lysne did this. "

"Those leaving for Seattle aboard Flight 305 made their way to Concourse L, one of two on the south side of the terminal. "  That's the last mention of the ticketing area. It mentions that Hal Williams observed DBC at the gate pre-boarding. (  FBI Records: the Vault–D. B. Cooper, File# 164–81–113; John Guernsey, "Ticket agent won't forget man in black," The Oregonian (Portland, OR), November 25, 1981.)

I hope this helps, georger. I don't know if you're still thinking about the question of who filled in Cooper's ticket, but I'd pretty much wager the passengers didn't fill out their own. I could be wrong, but it's counter-intuitive. I see no benefit to the passenger filling in their own name from the clerk's POV.

[Robert99]

Nope. You're wrong on this one, R99.

Research has been done on how decomposition occurs when sneakers are worn. I saw a documentary on it, done by the Canucks. The sneakers tend to float and position the body upside-down in the water column. Fish and marine organisms feed on the carcass, and the bodies tend to discorporate at joints, in particular knees and feet, as only minimal amounts of ligaments bind them to the larger body.

DNA has identified the majority - but not all - of the victims. Most are suicides, boating accidents, or bizarre events at the ocean, such as the two women two weeks ago who got caught by rogue waves in WA while they were clamming at 9 pm and swept out to sea. The two were later washed back in, but not all bodies respond similarly. Some go far out and will travel to BC.

Bruce, can you back up your claim that sneakers have enough buoyancy to cause bodies that have been in the water for several days to float "feet up".

[georger]

Type in ticket counter and you should see it...nothing there other than the photo

oh well ... tried everything I can think of ... lost to the forum.

I found it by searching under "feedback", as that was what David was looking for. It's on this thread: New Forum & News Updates - p. 293. It was just before TC "left the game" and then didn't, so everyone probably got a little distracted. It's a good read. A few typos (I used to teach ESL so I proofread through force of habit) and I do have questions about some of the points (esp. the newspaper), but overall I enjoyed it and was delighted by the details. Again, ANYTHING anyone has on the interior of Portland airport at that time - or downtown Portland in general, for that matter - would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the help Lynn. I see nothing in his post on that date about the ticket counter - what I do see is an attachment he made. In that word doc attachment he talks about the ticket counter? So I guess his ticket counter points are in that word doc. at the end of his post?

Hm, let me have a look. I was actually interested in the overall interior of the Portland airport (also that of LAX as my non-Cooper protag passes through there - all I know is it looks like a spaceship) just to add detail to my fiction.

I see the Bunce mural was near the ticketing area at the time, has since moved around. "Now defunct Airlines such as Eastern, Western and Pan Am graced the ticket counter area. The Zodiac Room overlooked parts of the runway and terminal, allowing those sitting down for a meal a warm, dry, comfortable view of the operations outside. This was no chain restaurant. A uniformed waitress complete with small, white  hat took your order and served the meal."

 "A line of customers stretched before Northwest Orient (NWO) employee Dennis Lysne standing behind the ticketing counter". (ref:   The total number of passengers derived from the following lists:  “Correspondence, receipts, and other documents.” 2013. Washington State Historical Society (WSHS) Collections: DB Cooper. 2011–2013; FBI documents reproduced on "The D. B. Cooper Project." True.Ink. Dennis Lysne’s encounter with Cooper: "Ex–ticket vendor says List not D.B. Cooper." UPI.com. July 01, 1989. Accessed December 5, 2016. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login–ticket–vendor–says–List–not–DB–Cooper/2283615268800/; "FBI Records: the Vault–D. B. Cooper," FBI.com, February 03, 2017, File# 164–87–52, accessed July 2017, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login–B–Cooper%20. As to ticketing procedures at that time: "John Maximuk oral history transcript," Washington State Historical Society  Collections, August 17, 2013, accessed December 2016, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. )

Footnote: "There has been confusion over the years as to who “sold” the ticket to Cooper. Researching this, Hal Williams came up at times. Dennis himself and FBI records show he as ticket agent did so. Williams was the NWO gate agent. In addition, there is credible evidence to show Cooper did not write his own name on the boarding pass. As was the procedure at that time, Lysne did this. "

"Those leaving for Seattle aboard Flight 305 made their way to Concourse L, one of two on the south side of the terminal. "  That's the last mention of the ticketing area. It mentions that Hal Williams observed DBC at the gate pre-boarding. (  FBI Records: the Vault–D. B. Cooper, File# 164–81–113; John Guernsey, "Ticket agent won't forget man in black," The Oregonian (Portland, OR), November 25, 1981.)

I hope this helps, georger. I don't know if you're still thinking about the question of who filled in Cooper's ticket, but I'd pretty much wager the passengers didn't fill out their own. I could be wrong, but it's counter-intuitive. I see no benefit to the passenger filling in their own name from the clerk's POV.

If you look at the ticket counter it's tall; the only writing surface was behind the counter where the agent stood and in reach of the agent. The top of the counter is out of reach for both customer and agent, for all practical purposes. The agent would take money over the top of the counter, then fill the ticket out on the writing surface on the agent's side of the counter, and give it back to the customer 'over the top of the counter'. That was the procedure dictated by the construction of the counter ... it was the same for all airlines using that long-tall counter.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Bruce, can you back up your claim that sneakers have enough buoyancy to cause bodies that have been in the water for several days to float "feet up".

Yup.

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[Robert99]

Bruce, can you back up your claim that sneakers have enough buoyancy to cause bodies that have been in the water for several days to float "feet up".

Yup.

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I do not see anything in that site that supports your claim about floating "feet up".

[377]

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377

[Robert99]

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377

377, I do not see anything in the three sites you list that indicates a body will float "feet up" as Bruce Smith states.  In fact, Bruce Smith's original reference didn't say anything about feet floating.  It only said that the feet found in the Vancouver, Canada area were "washed ashore" and things don't have to float to be washed ashore. 

[georger]

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377

377, I do not see anything in the three sites you list that indicates a body will float "feet up" as Bruce Smith states.  In fact, Bruce Smith's original reference didn't say anything about feet floating.  It only said that the feet found in the Vancouver, Canada area were "washed ashore" and things don't have to float to be washed ashore.

Bodies cannot float feet up unless the Bruce Smith Body Blimp is tied to those feet! You can get your free Bruce Smith Body Blimp at his Mountain News Tell-all website. Good luck with your body blimp.  Or, the head rock is also available which can also be applied so bodies float head down. The head rock weighs 200 lbs so accommodate for in shipping.  

Warning: use of Head rocks have been known to pop the head off during inverted flotation thus leading to more false news reports.

[377]

Due to a large number of suicides off the Golden Gate Bridge, commercial fishermen see a few bodies offshore. I've queried some of my fishing buddies about body positions and none have seen feet up floaters. Not saying it can't happen, but they haven't seen any. Usual position is prone, draped over, face down.

377

[andrade1812]

Due to a large number of suicides off the Golden Gate Bridge, commercial fishermen see a few bodies offshore. I've queried some of my fishing buddies about body positions and none have seen feet up floaters. Not saying it can't happen, but they haven't seen any. Usual position is prone, draped over, face down.

377

According to the recovery guys I've talked to out here (MN), most bodies are found bent out the waist, similar to the fetal position, which makes IDing a body with sonar more difficult.

Is NMIWrecks still around?

[377]

Here are some side scan sonar images of bodies.

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377

[Bruce A. Smith]

I wonder how bloviators float.

Just askin'...