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[Kermit]

Less than 5 minutes left before darkness. Coop and I have less than 2 minutes to dig up his $150,000 before lightness returns. We must hurry !

[377]

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Citizen sleuths search for Trump dirt.

377

That's what I like about you 377, that passive aggressive demeanor that comes out every once in a while.  You're so subtle -- that little dig at me last time about me flaunting my level of education to disparage someone on the forum, and now your inappropriate but subtle political dig at Trump.  Stick with parachutes and legal-ese, those are your strong suits.

Actually the reason I posted it Meyer was to show new uses for citizen sleuths, in this case looking for Trump stuff. I think crowd sourcing of cold case investigations holds real promise. So many unsolved murders that could be solved if enough resources were made available. Larry Carr was a pioneer. One needn't be passive aggressive about slamming Trump. It's everywhere. Just listen to the news or pick up a paper. He is right, the press is biased. I don't like him one bit but I sure agree with him on that.

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[Parrotheadvol]

How are you all going to view the eclipse? I'm using binoculars as a projector, and a backup using a small piece of mirror that will also project it onto a wall about 40 feet away. the mirror is small, less than an inch...doesn't matter what it looks like..

Just my luck. My location in Tennessee is a great spot to watch it, total darkness. As fate would have it, I was originally scheduled to work in Canada on Tuesday, which meant being on a plane today. Last week, the job got pushed back to Wednesday, so I tried to make arrangements to fly on Tuesday so that I could be home with the kids for the eclipse today. Wouldn't ya know it...nothing available. So, here I am in Canada on eclipse day. It's growing dim outside now, but won't be anything like it would be at home. Maybe I should have just took this week off and went camping with Blevins....

[boneman]

Evidently more finds released by Colbert team... foam?

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[Bruce A. Smith]

Or come on out to Cooper Country, Parrot. We just had a good show in Eatonville. Read all about it at the Mountain News: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.

BTW: I did like seeing the link to the Citizen Sleuth who is working 16-hour days in a library to dig up dirt on Trump. I see Three-Seven-Seven's point in sharing that kind of information, but it might be better shared in a mass emailing so that the more politically sensitive here are not riled-up.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Evidently more finds released by Colbert team... foam?

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Unfortunately, the leading information we have on the parachute is that it was NOT an NB-8, or NB-6, either, despite what Larry Carr and Earl Cossey claimed, which begs the question of why they spouted false information.

It's little details like this that TJC overlooks or dismisses, along with his CCT. What good is a retired FBI agent, or even an retired Assistant Director of the FBI, if they can't deal effectively with conflicting information like this?

[377]

Even though I am a chute gearhead, I do defer to Bruce based on his careful and very informative interview of Norman. It's possible that the Pioneer rig was what Cooper actually jumped. The rig doesn't make that much difference, it's just a fabric harness and a container. The canopy is what keeps you from going splat as a consequence of ripping apart during a high speed deployment. I'm confident that the canopy DBC jumped was either a 26 ft Navy Conical or a 28 ft C-9 round. Both are mil spec BEASTS compared to wimpy civvie sport canopies that can come apart if deployed at speeds exceeding 125 mph.

The Pioneer civilian and the Navy NB 6 or NB 8 rigs would all have a pin protector flap and also a back pad cushion. If TC is digging where a rig was disposed of, there should be a lot of very unique metal parts that have a high enough steel mass to be detected by metal detectors. So far no metal hardware has been located AFIK.

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[Robert99]

Evidently more finds released by Colbert team... foam?

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Unfortunately, the leading information we have on the parachute is that it was NOT an NB-8, or NB-6, either, despite what Larry Carr and Earl Cossey claimed, which begs the question of why they spouted false information.

It's little details like this that TJC overlooks or dismisses, along with his CCT. What good is a retired FBI agent, or even an retired Assistant Director of the FBI, if they can't deal effectively with conflicting information like this?

Bruce,

If the parachute was not an NB-8 or NB-6, then what was it?  Please describe the harness, container, canopy, and pilot chute.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Robert, when the hell are you going to read my book? The answers to these questions are all addressed there in detail. But in the spirit of Forum Decorum I will tell you this:

1. Container was a Pioneer.
2. Chute was a Steinthaul, 26' conical canopy, white, rip-stop nylon.
3. I have no knowledge of the pilot chute.
4. Pix of the harness were posted a page or two back, see post by Georger.

This information comes from Norman Hayden, who owned the two back chutes that went to Flight 305. Norman said he sent two identical back chutes. He received one back and the other went out the door of the 727, presumably with DBC. The "other chute" from Hayden was given to the WSHM in 2013, and is now part of their collection. It was on public display at their COOPER exhibit.

I inspected Hayden's chute at his shop in Renton in 2012. I was accompanied by Bruce Thun, a jump ship pilot and parachutist for many years. His father, John, was the founder and owner of the noted Thun Field in Pierce County, WA for fifty years. This chute is the one I photographed for the Mountain News. Lots o' pix there, for a more detailed understanding of this parachute. Bruce was very helpful in assisting me in understanding the nuances of the Steinthaul and Pioneer rig.

From this, I have surmised that everything else put forward about the chutes is total canard - especially everything that Cossey and Carr said. Carr clearly has not read the FBI documents on the parachutes, and he refuses to educate himself even though I have tried to straighten him out on this subject.

As for Cossey, he was a total bullshit artist. Besides his inconsistent DBC statements to the FBI, the media, and private investigators, and his unsolved murder, there is much more to investigate, such as his departure from his teaching gig in Woodinville.

Cossey's family are not helping us understand ol' Coss. The son is totally adversarial. He tried to have me arrested during the police investigation of his father's home when I approached him to discuss some of these issues. Later, he refused to answer phone calls, letters, and emails. In addition, Debbie Cossey has refused all contact after her ex-husband's death. Further, the Major Case squad of the Kings County Sheriff's Office is mum on the homicide. Friends of Coss who have talked to me say that they have initiated contact with the KCSO and shared information about Coss' serious gambling addiction and his association with shady characters. However, these friends have told me that the cops have not acted upon any of their information, and they feel a cover-up is under way.

[Robert99]

Robert, when the hell are you going to read my book? The answers to these questions are all addressed there in detail. But in the spirit Forum Decorum I will tell you this:

1. Container was a Pioneer
2. Chute was a Steinthaul, 26' conical canopy, white, rip-stop nylon.

This information comes from Norman Hayden, who owned the two back chutes that went to Flight 305. Norman said he sent two identical back chutes. He received one back and the other went out the door, presumably with DBC. The "other chute" from Hayden was given to the WSHM in 2013, and is now part of their collection. It was on public display at their COOPER exhibit.

I inspected Hayden's chute at his shop in Renton in 2012. I was accompanied by Bruce Thun, a jump ship pilot and parachutist for many years. His father, John, was the founder and owner of the noted Thun Field in Pierce County, WA for fifty years. This chute is the one I photographed for the Mountain News. Lots o' pix there, for a more detailed understanding of this parachute.

Bruce,

A long time ago I bought your book and read portions of it.  If ever moved by the spirit, I'll read the rest of it.

The terms NB-6 and NB-8 are basically generic terms for Navy developed parachutes.  The components can be manufactured by anyone who does so to the Navy specifications and meets other technical requirements.

Both the NB-6 and NB-8 parachutes have similar, but not interchangeable, containers and harnesses.  I used to own an NB-6, such as the one pictured on Sluggo's web page, and its description follows:

1.  The harness design is somewhat unique and I refer you to Sluggo's picture of the parachute for details.

2.  The canopy is a 26-foot conical canopy which means that it cannot be spread out evenly on the floor.  Also, the shroud lines were sewn into the risers rather than being joined to the risers by separable links hardware.  The bottom end of each of the four risers was attached to the harness by separable links hardware.

3.  The shroud lines ran from the risers to the skirt of the canopy and did not go completely over the canopy.  Instead, from the skirt of the canopy, cloth tape went over the canopy top and then down to the skirt on the opposite side of the canopy.  This resulted in the canopy volume when packed being substantially less than if only shroud lines had been used.  And this smaller packing volume was extremely desirable if the aircraft cockpit was cramped.

4.  The pilot chute was also unique.  In packing, the pilot chute spring had to be completely compressed and a stud on the pilot chute fit into a hole in the container flap that had three permanent studs attached.  When both flaps of the container were in their closed positions, the rip cord pins were inserted through each of the four studs.  This meant that the rip cord had to be pulled in order for the pilot chute to be freed from the attachment to the container flaps.  And if the ripcord wasn't pulled, the canopy could not inflate and it was a bad day for the jumper.

So based on your description of the Norman Hayden parachutes, I would describe them as being generic NB-6 parachutes.

ADDENDUM:  Bruce added additional information to his original post while this was been written so refer to it (the previous post to this one) for more details.  Apparently Cossey's murder is not one of those "The butler did it." cases.

[377]

R 99 wrote: "The terms NB-6 and NB-8 are basically generic terms for Navy developed parachutes."

I believe the NB 6 and NB 8 names refer to the harness and container and not to any particular parachute contained within. To me, parachute means canopy. NB 6 normally had a 26 ft Navy Conical canopy and NB 8 had a 28 ft C9 round canopy, a chute used by USAF, USN and USMC. Post service civilian mods stuffed all sorts of canopies into all sorts of military containers, often adding extension inserts on the closing flaps to accommodate larger volume canopies.

Both the Navy Conical and the C 9 round were super tough canopies. Way stronger than most civilian canopies.

Minor trivial point. Carry on.

377

[Robert99]

R 99 wrote: "The terms NB-6 and NB-8 are basically generic terms for Navy developed parachutes."

I believe the NB 6 and NB 8 names refer to the harness and container and not to any particular parachute contained within. To me, parachute means canopy. NB 6 normally had a 26 ft Navy Conical canopy and NB 8 had a 28 ft C9 round canopy, a chute used by USAF, USN and USMC. Post service civilian mods stuffed all sorts of canopies into all sorts of military containers, often adding extension inserts on the closing flaps to accommodate larger volume canopies.

Both the Navy Conical and the C 9 round were super tough canopies. Way stronger than most civilian canopies.

Minor trivial point. Carry on.

377

377, I completely agree with you.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Are you guys saying that a 26-foot Steinthaul conical canopy is a 26-foor Navy conical canopy?

[Robert99]

Are you guys saying that a 26-foot Steinthaul conical canopy is a 26-foor Navy conical canopy?

Bruce,

If the two canopies are made to the same standards, then they are probably interchangeable.

The Navy 26-foot conical canopy would be required to be made to certain Military Standards in order for the Navy to purchase it.  Say the Navy wants to purchase 10,000 NB-6 parachutes.  The Navy procurement people would then send out requests for quotations to a group of companies that had previously been inspected and determined to have the capability to make those parachutes.  The lowest cost bidder who is able to meet the Navy's specified delivery dates would then probably be awarded the contract to manufacture those parachutes.

In its request for quotations, the Navy would include a list of such things as Military Standards which describe exactly how the parachutes are to be made.  This includes materials, stitching patterns, and absolutely everything involved in manufacturing that parachute.  The list of Military Standards and other such boiler plate paperwork can be hundreds of items long and the total paperwork could be several hundred pages long.

Many, if not most manufacturers bitch about all the Military Standards they have to comply with.  But rest assured that if one of the manufacturer's employees ever needs to make an emergency parachute jump and has his choice of parachutes, he will select one made to Military Standards.   (I have seen similar things happen in my working life.)

If the Military Standards are not classified information, any parachute manufacturer can manufacture his parachutes to Military Standards.  The FAA routinely (for the most part) would accept such a parachute as being manufactured to their own standards.  In fact, the FAA probably specifies Military Standards or such for their own parachute certifications.

So any 26-foot conical parachute manufactured to the standards the Navy specified for the NB-6 is, for all practical purposes, the same thing as any other NB-6 26-foot conical parachute canopy manufactured to those standards regardless of who manufactured it.

 

   

[377]

Yes, it's a 26 ft Navy Conical regardless of who made it. Norman bought them at a military surplus store, right?

They are GREAT canopies. Reliable, strong as hell. One saved my life in the early 1970s. It was my reserve canopy. I kissed it when it landed me safely after a cutaway.

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