Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 780677 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4290 on: March 21, 2021, 01:39:55 PM »
I see a time gap I can't account for at the moment. I first did my calculations using the 9:00 time by Harrison until I realized it's two different entries that are one entry in the log. that's why I mentioned earlier thinking they arrived at Eugene at 9:00.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4291 on: March 21, 2021, 01:47:00 PM »
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I see a time gap I can't account for at the moment. I first did my calculations using the 9:00 time by Harrison until I realized it's two different entries that are one entry in the log. that's why I mentioned earlier thinking they arrived at Eugene at 9:00.

The real question is what is the time at 23 DME?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4292 on: March 21, 2021, 01:59:53 PM »
If you use Harrison for path timing he puts the 23 miles DME at 8:18
The next entry is the 8:50 time over Eugene VOR
After that is the entry of 9:00 about the last contact being 55 minutes ago with Cooper that also matches.

It's 79 NM from the 23 mile location and should take 26.3 minutes of flight but we have 32 minutes between the entries..The 9:00 entry seems pretty solid to what the crew time reports.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4293 on: March 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM »
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If you use Harrison for path timing he puts the 23 miles DME at 8:18
The next entry is the 8:50 time over Eugene VOR
After that is the entry of 9:00 about the last contact being 55 minutes ago with Cooper that also matches.

It's 79 NM from the 23 mile location and should take 26.3 minutes of flight but we have 32 minutes between the entries..The 9:00 entry seems pretty solid to what the crew time reports.

How do you know it should take 26.3 minutes? This is a complicated function of the ground speed. Covering 3 miles (statute) per minute over ground puts it at 30.3 minutes.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4294 on: March 21, 2021, 02:10:01 PM »
Going by a 3 mile minute . if you don't use an average then how do you conclude?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 02:10:30 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4295 on: March 21, 2021, 02:13:14 PM »
Depending on wind speed and direction the ground speed will change but you would need to show a minute map to establish the path. speed will change but not a minute?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4296 on: March 21, 2021, 02:17:47 PM »
It's 62 NM from Sea to Toledo. if you use the 3 mile minute it calculates to 20.6 minutes. the timing is off due to going to 155 NM for a period then jumping up in speed. the remaining parts of the flight appear to be steady at 165-170.

When I first started flying this area I didn't slow down at the start of the flight and arrived early at Toledo.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 02:20:46 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4297 on: March 21, 2021, 02:22:04 PM »
I'm not sure I understand your point.

79 NM = 91 SM.

The ground speed can and will easily change over 91 miles. In fact, 10% isn't that big of a deal...3.0 miles per minute to 3.3 miles per minute.

The problem also is a mile or two or three can easily be added or shaved off depending upon precisely where 305 was at the time it was near the Eugene VOR. Was it just past, just before, directly over the top?

Trying to get precise to this degree is impossible. Way too many variables. We need to look for glaring flaws that cannot be easily explained.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4298 on: March 21, 2021, 02:29:06 PM »
I'm only writing what I see. we have a basic perimeter to use. I simply pointed out the time difference using a 3 mile minute.

How are you concluding the Tbar departure?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4299 on: March 21, 2021, 02:33:28 PM »
The Tena Bar jump is a little different in that we're only talking 16 SM so using an average speed of say 3 miles per minute is hardly noticeable from 3.3 miles per minute.

That said, your point is nonetheless correct. That is partly why I stated the jet would be a "1000 feet or so" south of Tena Bar.

In any case, it would be very near Tena Bar.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4300 on: March 21, 2021, 02:36:51 PM »
What do you mean by only using 16 SM?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4301 on: March 21, 2021, 02:38:45 PM »
The path will remain the same no matter where you jump?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4302 on: March 21, 2021, 02:42:03 PM »
I'm assuming DBC jumped at 8:13. If the jet was 23 DME at 8:18 then DBC jumped 5 minutes earlier. Back tracking 5 minutes along the Western Flight Path from 23 DME is about 16 miles north and puts the jet very near Tena Bar.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4303 on: March 21, 2021, 02:42:45 PM »
Ok, I see now...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4304 on: March 21, 2021, 02:52:17 PM »
SkyVector places it at 20 NM right to the money location to the 23 mile location..actually, it's 596 feet north of the money location
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 02:57:15 PM by Shutter »