Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1428972 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2295 on: November 04, 2017, 05:32:22 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There are many other things that are more important to the Cooper matter than the parachutes he actually jumped with.


I agree.

See above.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2296 on: November 04, 2017, 05:41:56 PM »
If Cossey is a liar...

What then, eh?

Are all the 302s junk? Can Georger take a vacation and let his project to read and index all the FOIA documents go fallow?

If Cossey was a liar and the FBI knew it, is everything they say about Norjak bogus, too? How big a Rabbit Hole is opening up here?

Yes, I know that few people here have the taste for investigatory spelunking, but we are on the edge of a huge chasm.

The work may just be beginning. Maybe only some of the 302s are bogus. Maybe only those that pertain to Cossey are wrong. Our greatest goal may be to determine which FBI documents are legit and which ones are mis-directions or incorrect.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:50:42 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2297 on: November 05, 2017, 01:47:30 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If Cossey is a liar...

What then, eh?

Are all the 302s junk? Can Georger take a vacation and let his project to read and index all the FOIA documents go fallow?

If Cossey was a liar and the FBI knew it, is everything they say about Norjak bogus, too? How big a Rabbit Hole is opening up here?

Yes, I know that few people here have the taste for investigatory spelunking, but we are on the edge of a huge chasm.

The work may just be beginning. Maybe only some of the 302s are bogus. Maybe only those that pertain to Cossey are wrong. Our greatest goal may be to determine which FBI documents are legit and which ones are mis-directions or incorrect.

Bruce, just forget the Pulitzer Prize dream.

The Cooper hijacking is not the crime of the century, or even the crime of the week.  And I definitely doubt that the FBI work is as bogus as you claim.

The greatest goal here is to determine what happened to DB Cooper.  Period! 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2298 on: November 05, 2017, 02:12:27 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The greatest goal here is to determine what happened to DB Cooper.  Period!


Yes, that is true. However, it is very difficult to determine what happened to DB Cooper if we can't trust the FBI, its documents, and the public statements of its agents.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2299 on: November 05, 2017, 02:19:45 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The greatest goal here is to determine what happened to DB Cooper.  Period!


Yes, that is true. However, it is very difficult to determine what happened to DB Cooper if we can't trust the FBI, its documents, and the public statements of its agents.

Oh Master. Tell us where to go!   Especially now that you've closed the doors on everything. Is this forum over?
Has time come to an end?

We a-wait your command.      :rofl:
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 02:21:04 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2300 on: November 05, 2017, 02:20:43 AM »
Truth or Consequences

Here's a quiz to establish the nature of the investigatory quandary we are in:

1. Was Earl Cossey a liar?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

2. Did Larry Carr think Coss was truthful?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

3. Did Larry Carr believe Earl Cossey when Coss said Coop was a no-pull?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

4. Was Larry Carr telling the truth when he said the cigarette butts were lost after processing? Circa, 2003.

Yes..
No...
Maybe...

5. Does Curtis Eng know who Al Di is?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2301 on: November 05, 2017, 02:21:36 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Truth or Consequences

Here's a quiz to establish the nature of the investigatory quandary we are in:

1. Was Earl Cossey a liar?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

2. Did Larry Carr think Coss was truthful?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

3. Did Larry Carr believe Earl Cossey when Coss said Coop was a no-pull?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

4. Was Larry Carr telling the truth when he said the cigarette butts were lost after processing? Circa, 2003.

Yes..
No...
Maybe...

5. Does Curtis Eng know who Al Di is?

Yes...
No...
Maybe...

Oh Master. Tell us where to go!   Especially now that you've closed the doors on everything. Is this forum over? Has time come to an end?  What will you allow here?

We a-wait your command.      :rofl:
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 02:22:32 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2302 on: November 05, 2017, 02:22:20 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...Tell us where to go! 


Get to work. We need those FOIA docs read and indexed.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 02:22:50 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2303 on: November 05, 2017, 02:26:29 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

...you've closed the doors on everything...


No, I am opening them.

It is the FBI who closed the doors on this investigation - 5 pm, Friday, July 8, 2016 to be exact. But they didn't send the press releases out until Monday morning.

That is the kind of organization we are investigating.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2304 on: November 05, 2017, 02:28:25 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

... I don't take orders...


But you asked for directions.

I merely provided some obvious guidance.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2305 on: November 05, 2017, 02:29:13 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

... I don't take orders...


But you asked for directions.

I merely provided some obvious guidance.
So now you are giving me orders (to post more FBI docs) - in Dave Brown's forum?

My life is being run by a crazy person in a DB Cooper forum!   :nono:



« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 04:40:30 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Thanked: 53 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2306 on: November 05, 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If Cossey is a liar...

What then, eh?

Are all the 302s junk? Can Georger take a vacation and let his project to read and index all the FOIA documents go fallow?

If Cossey was a liar and the FBI knew it, is everything they say about Norjak bogus, too? How big a Rabbit Hole is opening up here?

Yes, I know that few people here have the taste for investigatory spelunking, but we are on the edge of a huge chasm.

The work may just be beginning. Maybe only some of the 302s are bogus. Maybe only those that pertain to Cossey are wrong. Our greatest goal may be to determine which FBI documents are legit and which ones are mis-directions or incorrect.

Regarding huge chasms:

When I was a teenager, some friends and I who were not yet ready to give up playing hide and seek took to playing it in a hotel during the midnight shift. We'd sneak in, split into teams and cause quiet havoc trying to catch each other sneaking out of a meeting room or what have you.

One night, I was caught between the DuBois brothers' classic pincer move, with Jay running after me on the 4th floor and Ron calmly advancing toward the stairs I was peering from on the 5th. He hadn't see me yet, and with his brother descending the stairwell and listening for movement, I was almost caught. I decided to cheat.

I wedged my foot at the bottom of the door and waited. The door handle turned and I felt the gentle, then forceful, then hammering pressure of Ron pushing on the door from the other side with all of his might. My foot held. Finally, the handle released and he went away, and I wasn't caught that night.

Later in the parking lot, Ron told all of us we had to leave immediately. He had turned white with fear, and wouldn't play "manhunt" in that hotel again. It was haunted, he told us.

"I shoved on that door with everything I had and it didn't budge!" he recalled, with a terrified expression. "Whatever was on the other side of that door was MASSIVE! Some kind of....presence or something! I don't know, but I'm not coming back here."  I let him go for about a year retelling that story before I finally broke it to him what really happened. Maybe I should have behaved myself, but it was a lot of fun messing with him.

My point is that it's not always some huge story on the other side of things. It's usually something simple, like a door wedge, or a guy who wanted to stretch his 15 minutes into a lifetime of minor celebrity and respect as an FBI-related expert. Even if Cossey was less than 100% truthful, its likely the FBI wasn't colluding and conspiring and...all that interesting language we can come up with to describe what we imagine. They were probably just doing the job and referring people to the parachute guy they knew whose name was on the packing cards.

But keep working on it. Maybe there's smoke and fire afterall. I don't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2307 on: November 05, 2017, 01:12:35 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If Cossey is a liar...

What then, eh?

Are all the 302s junk? Can Georger take a vacation and let his project to read and index all the FOIA documents go fallow?

If Cossey was a liar and the FBI knew it, is everything they say about Norjak bogus, too? How big a Rabbit Hole is opening up here?

Yes, I know that few people here have the taste for investigatory spelunking, but we are on the edge of a huge chasm.

The work may just be beginning. Maybe only some of the 302s are bogus. Maybe only those that pertain to Cossey are wrong. Our greatest goal may be to determine which FBI documents are legit and which ones are mis-directions or incorrect.

Regarding huge chasms:

When I was a teenager, some friends and I who were not yet ready to give up playing hide and seek took to playing it in a hotel during the midnight shift. We'd sneak in, split into teams and cause quiet havoc trying to catch each other sneaking out of a meeting room or what have you.

One night, I was caught between the DuBois brothers' classic pincer move, with Jay running after me on the 4th floor and Ron calmly advancing toward the stairs I was peering from on the 5th. He hadn't see me yet, and with his brother descending the stairwell and listening for movement, I was almost caught. I decided to cheat.

I wedged my foot at the bottom of the door and waited. The door handle turned and I felt the gentle, then forceful, then hammering pressure of Ron pushing on the door from the other side with all of his might. My foot held. Finally, the handle released and he went away, and I wasn't caught that night.

Later in the parking lot, Ron told all of us we had to leave immediately. He had turned white with fear, and wouldn't play "manhunt" in that hotel again. It was haunted, he told us.

"I shoved on that door with everything I had and it didn't budge!" he recalled, with a terrified expression. "Whatever was on the other side of that door was MASSIVE! Some kind of....presence or something! I don't know, but I'm not coming back here."  I let him go for about a year retelling that story before I finally broke it to him what really happened. Maybe I should have behaved myself, but it was a lot of fun messing with him.

My point is that it's not always some huge story on the other side of things. It's usually something simple, like a door wedge, or a guy who wanted to stretch his 15 minutes into a lifetime of minor celebrity and respect as an FBI-related expert. Even if Cossey was less than 100% truthful, its likely the FBI wasn't colluding and conspiring and...all that interesting language we can come up with to describe what we imagine. They were probably just doing the job and referring people to the parachute guy they knew whose name was on the packing cards.

But keep working on it. Maybe there's smoke and fire afterall. I don't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Relax.  Bruce will find the smoke and fire whether it is there or not. ;)
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2308 on: November 05, 2017, 03:15:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If Cossey is a liar...

What then, eh?

Are all the 302s junk? Can Georger take a vacation and let his project to read and index all the FOIA documents go fallow?

If Cossey was a liar and the FBI knew it, is everything they say about Norjak bogus, too? How big a Rabbit Hole is opening up here?

Yes, I know that few people here have the taste for investigatory spelunking, but we are on the edge of a huge chasm.

The work may just be beginning. Maybe only some of the 302s are bogus. Maybe only those that pertain to Cossey are wrong. Our greatest goal may be to determine which FBI documents are legit and which ones are mis-directions or incorrect.

Regarding huge chasms:

When I was a teenager, some friends and I who were not yet ready to give up playing hide and seek took to playing it in a hotel during the midnight shift. We'd sneak in, split into teams and cause quiet havoc trying to catch each other sneaking out of a meeting room or what have you.

One night, I was caught between the DuBois brothers' classic pincer move, with Jay running after me on the 4th floor and Ron calmly advancing toward the stairs I was peering from on the 5th. He hadn't see me yet, and with his brother descending the stairwell and listening for movement, I was almost caught. I decided to cheat.

I wedged my foot at the bottom of the door and waited. The door handle turned and I felt the gentle, then forceful, then hammering pressure of Ron pushing on the door from the other side with all of his might. My foot held. Finally, the handle released and he went away, and I wasn't caught that night.

Later in the parking lot, Ron told all of us we had to leave immediately. He had turned white with fear, and wouldn't play "manhunt" in that hotel again. It was haunted, he told us.

"I shoved on that door with everything I had and it didn't budge!" he recalled, with a terrified expression. "Whatever was on the other side of that door was MASSIVE! Some kind of....presence or something! I don't know, but I'm not coming back here."  I let him go for about a year retelling that story before I finally broke it to him what really happened. Maybe I should have behaved myself, but it was a lot of fun messing with him.

My point is that it's not always some huge story on the other side of things. It's usually something simple, like a door wedge, or a guy who wanted to stretch his 15 minutes into a lifetime of minor celebrity and respect as an FBI-related expert. Even if Cossey was less than 100% truthful, its likely the FBI wasn't colluding and conspiring and...all that interesting language we can come up with to describe what we imagine. They were probably just doing the job and referring people to the parachute guy they knew whose name was on the packing cards.

But keep working on it. Maybe there's smoke and fire afterall. I don't see it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Relax.  Bruce will find the smoke and fire whether it is there or not. ;)

Bruce has a particular point of view due to a book at stake and his reputation (advisor to media about the Cooper case) and his vulnerable personal situation of poverty, which certifies him now as an Established Cooper Cult Expert. Bruce is a cultist in every sense of the word and his vita establishes that! NORJACK is just one of his life pursuits among others. Everything Bruce has said and done to date is predictable... just as others of us with different backgrounds and interests would take a more technical approach based on our training and personalities.

Given that fact, it's no surprise Bruce would instantly rise to declare FBI docs as fake, forgeries, tricks, and the like. Ramtha will have it no other way! The flying saucer will arrive on the appointed date and time as revealed by Ramtha, come hel or high water no matter what! The FBI is a mere inconvenience compared to the larger agenda at stake - for Bruce and Ramtha! This is pure classic cult thinking given some underlying neurosis.

And I am supposed to take orders from this guy about whether or not I will post FBI documents and what they mean or do not mean, etc etc etc? Bruce forgot momentarily he does not run the Universe. This is tantamount to when Mr. Blevins (and Jo Weber) proclaimed that Optical Physics does not work inside cabins of airplanes, as it does elsewhere in the Universe! A five foot eight guy with no hair could easily be mistaken for 6'1" guy with hair ... due to moving airline optical maldum fornax conditions - which Blevins has seen personally on airlines! Gag me with a silver spoon! It must be true!

[Other non cult Cooper News   Actual psychologists and trained like-minded (who actually work to apply psychology in the real world) have noted that the Cooper Hijacking actually was rather - archetypal, if that's the proper word. Cooper set a few firsts, more-or-less. Hijacked so as to parachute from a flying airplane. Got the full cooperation of an airline to do it! Got away with $200,000 which in 1971 was not chicken feed. Had FBI types proclaiming his hijacking as a model event which people later were only "copying". The original vs. the copycats. Etc etc etc.

One good old fashioned psychiatrist I know who has actually done some professional profiling laughed and said to me:

"The whole thing is a dream state. Some people like reading about and participating in dream states as an escape from daily reality. Cooper was a GAMBLER. His plan could have been breached quite easily when they were on the ground at Seattle except for the order from Nyrop that everyone cooperate. I think his bomb was a ruse and very likely a fake. I would like to talk to Mr. Cooper to find out what his assessment of the actual options were. I would want to know how far his Dream State went. A lot of people seem to still be wrapped up in it, with him. It is classic cult stereotypical material."

 :)
     

         
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 03:22:31 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2309 on: November 05, 2017, 04:15:25 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

... Even if Cossey was less than 100% truthful, its likely the FBI wasn't colluding and conspiring and...


But what does that say about the FBI? They hired a guy who wasn't 100% truthful, and established him as their go-to-guy for 40 years?

Would you hire me if I wasn't 100% truthful? Would you buy my book if you knew it wasn't 100% truthful? That's not to say that my writing is 100% accurate, but it is 100% free of deception.