Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 639099 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #1410 on:** December 17, 2017, 05:16:48 PM »

I'm researching but can't seem to find the book recalling the medallion switch supposedly made on 305...I know all about Knoss, but could of swore a book was published about this?

the phone call was made Thanksgiving evening...no records of this have ever surfaced either...

It appears to be the same guys from "The Real McCoy" talking about the medallion...

1991 saw the publication of D. B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by FBI agents Bernie Rhodes and Russell P. Calame. Both authors investigated McCoy's skyjacking case, and their book posits that Cooper and McCoy were really the same person. They cited similar methods of hijacking, and a tie and Brigham Young University medallion[citation needed] with McCoy's initials on the back left on the plane by Cooper.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1411 on:** December 17, 2017, 08:10:13 PM »

I don't think McCoy was Cooper, but I find two items from the Calame/Rhodes investigation to be of great interest:

1. Why they are so quick to draw a link between McCoy and Cooper? It's like a rookie's excitement. Odd.
2. McCoy was not home during the Thanksgiving period in 1971, but was in Las Vegas. I think that is fairly well established.

But what was McCoy doing there? And why does the Seattle Division believe McCoy was home, refuting the evidence that Calame and the SLC FBI discovered on McCoy, ie: gas receipts, phone calls, etc. Strange.

Shutter · « **Reply #1412 on:** December 17, 2017, 08:37:21 PM »

have they ever produced this evidence?

MeyerLouie · « **Reply #1413 on:** December 17, 2017, 09:08:35 PM »

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I believe this started with the agents investigating McCoy...

Now, when you look at the counters from that period you won't see any pens attached to chains that you would think would be there for them to use. the tickets are behind the counter, they fill out the forms, so why would they allow them to put there name on it..

another agent working for NW in Portland stated they do all the writing on the tickets..

Good point! Just the physical layout and logistics at check-in make it difficult for passengers/clients to sign tickets. Meyer

looking at vintage pictures of airports show a lot of the counters are high and would make it uncomfortable to write anything...

dcmey · « **Reply #1414 on:** December 17, 2017, 09:45:16 PM »

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have they ever produced this evidence?

On youtube they claim they have the evidence of receipts and phone records. on the video titled The Real McCoy

I am going get their book and judge for myself. Something that they also say is that just after Cooper jumped he had lost most of the money.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1415 on:** December 17, 2017, 09:57:31 PM »

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have they ever produced this evidence?

Not that I've seen. Calame says in his book that his guys got credit card receipts on the gas and the phone company confirmed the phone calls.

Plus, I have not heard anyone impugn Russ Calame's integrity. So...

GG might be able to shed some light on these dimensions. He was hot-to-trot to find Mrs. McCoy, and spent some time out in SLC and Provo - even talking to her attorney, looking for the kids, etc.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1416 on:** December 17, 2017, 10:15:11 PM »

Good clip on McCoy, DC. Thanks for posting.

Shutter · « **Reply #1417 on:** December 17, 2017, 10:31:45 PM »

I find it odd that they write a book and fail to show any physical evidence they claim to have. that should of been priority in the book?

It's possible McCoy said he lost the money, but so does a lot of skydivers. then they claim the money found could be the money he offered the crew, but tell stories of McCoy being in Vegas to launder the money?

none of them had access to Portland, or Seattle to look at any of the evidence. both Portland & Seattle have never bought into this story...

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1418 on:** December 18, 2017, 12:53:57 AM »

Prints and DNA are critical, but supportive documentation should be presented as well. Shutter is correct in my judgment to question why Calame and Rhodes did not publish any supporting docs in their book.

Remember, there is a third option here for a relationship between the Cooper hijacking and McCoy. McCoy may have participated in the Cooper skyjacking in a supportive fashion, either as a getaway guy or a student of the caper, etc. It doesn't have to be strictly McCoy-was-Cooper, or he not.

Lynn · « **Reply #1419 on:** December 18, 2017, 02:21:11 AM »

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I find it odd that they write a book and fail to show any physical evidence they claim to have. that should of been priority in the book?

It's possible McCoy said he lost the money, but so does a lot of skydivers. then they claim the money found could be the money he offered the crew, but tell stories of McCoy being in Vegas to launder the money?

none of them had access to Portland, or Seattle to look at any of the evidence. both Portland & Seattle have never bought into this story...

Yeah, I don't really see how McCoy could have laundered the money in Vegas or anywhere in the US, let alone the western US, at that time. He could have lost the money, of course. I do try to follow the McCoy theory but have never really thought of him as more than a really talented copycat.

But the irony is, McCoy WAS a criminal. I think it was DB/Dan Cooper who was "copycatting" being a criminal in persona. Two things we know for sure about him: he blended, and he he came off in tone and mannerisms as somewhat genteel. The terms, "No funny stuff" and " I'll do the job" sound like someone who got their criminal talk from crime dramas. ("No funny business or I'll ice the dame, see?") I'd bet this skyjacking was his first and last felony.

Now I don't know how McCoy comes off to you lads, but in EVERY photo of him I've seen - this is a guy I'd have noticed, and I'm a lazy noticer. He looks like someone you wouldn't want to meet in an alley. Even a bowling alley. (Gossett, oddly, does not, although his c.v. sounds like something from Catch Me If You Can in places. He had a psychic show, really? Ditto Peterson, his old photos kinda look like someone's dependable uncle. McCoy looks like the uncle who comes by to raid your dad's liquor when he's not home.)

Back to the airline ticket counter thing, I haven't found an NWA one yet, but all the late 60's-early 70s photos I'm finding are showing high counters - some with barely enough space at the passenger level to write anything at all but with a desk-like space for the agent. Unless someone can show some proof or can get a ticket agent at the time to testify that was a lax practice, I'm not buying that Cooper filled in his own ticket.

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Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #1420 on:** December 18, 2017, 03:53:20 AM »

I'd like to add Paul Cini into the mix as we try reading tea leaves here in Cooper World. Did DBC know Paul Cini? Did McCoy know Cini? Was there any connection between Cini and anyone? Did any of the copycats know other copycats?

Or even more mysteriously, was there a third-party who helped coach Cini, Cooper, and McCoy? Who got this ball rolling?

Last thought: McCoy got a pile of money from somewhere during the 1971 holiday period so that he could fly his family - and sister-in-law - back to North Carolina. Then buy a new set of tires, too! Where did he get that money? Blackjack in Vegas, or did he earn it by participating in the Cooper escapade in some fashion that required him to fly in and out of McCarran?

I believe Calame and his investigators found legitimate evidence that places McCoy in Vegas over the T-Day holiday in 1971. But I think they are wrong in thinking that McCoy was Cooper. I think they need to envision a more expansive scenario that includes all the facts, and the McCoy-is-Cooper scenario doesn't.

Further, I think the Portland and Seattle Divisions are wrong in dismissing Calame's findings regarding McCoy, but correct in disregarding Calame's interpretation of the McCoy evidence.

Lynn · « **Reply #1421 on:** December 18, 2017, 04:19:51 AM »

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I'd like to add Paul Cini into the mix as we try reading tea leaves here in Cooper World. Did DBC know Paul Cini? Did McCoy know Cini? Was there any connection between Cini and anyone? Did any of the copycats know other copycats?

Or even more mysteriously, was there a third-party who helped coach Cini, Cooper, and McCoy? Who got this ball rolling?

Last thought: McCoy got a pile of money from somewhere during the 1971 holiday period so that he could fly his family - and sister-in-law - back to North Carolina. Then buy a new set of tires, too! Where did he get that money? Blackjack in Vegas, or did he earn it by participating in the Cooper escapade in some fashion that required him to fly in and out of McCarran?

I believe Calame and his investigators found legitimate evidence that places McCoy in Vegas over the T-Day holiday in 1971. But I think they are wrong in thinking that McCoy was Cooper. I think they need to envision a more expansive scenario that includes all the facts, and the McCoy-is-Cooper scenario doesn't.

Further, I think the Portland and Seattle Divisions are wrong in dismissing Calame's findings regarding McCoy, but correct in disregarding Calame's interpretation of the McCoy evidence.

Have given that no thought yet. Cini did fly out of Vancouver, though, the source of one of the letters. Which may mean nothing as the letters may mean nothing. I'm reading that Cini's was a quest for fame, according to a shrink who thought this was most skyjackers' prime motivator, and clearly did not bank on D.B. Cooper. Still, Cini himself seems to have stated that. He also claims to have been inspired by a skyjacking he saw on TV and a eureka moment of jumping out of the plane.

It's possible DBC had been planning the jump for some time but Cini's move expedited his plans; it was only a matter of time before someone thought of the aft stairs and Boeing sealed them up in-flight. The story I've seen told was that Cini was kind of the Foster Brooks of hijackers, but I'm sure you know more. Here's a story about the FA - an older lady who in her own way was the Tina of the piece. Has anyone interviewed Cini? I'm finding several people by that name, but no obit for him, and one page that lists his occupation as: hijacker, truck driver. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Shutter · « **Reply #1422 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:39:23 AM »

Quote

Remember, there is a third option here for a relationship between the Cooper hijacking and McCoy. McCoy may have participated in the Cooper skyjacking in a supportive fashion, either as a getaway guy or a student of the caper, etc. It doesn't have to be strictly McCoy-was-Cooper, or he not.

You think McCoy would allow Cooper to fly the plane blind, no direction, or updates? again, no similarities between the two.

McCoy displayed plenty of arrogant's..he said he could do it better, he flew a helicopter looking for himself

that's hats off in my book, balls to the wall...he was comfortable enough to keep everything right in his home thinking nothing about being caught.

His arrogant's/mouth did him in, or we might of had two unsolved hijackings. IMO, we have McCoy mocking Cooper. he's on record stating he probably lost the money, he showed exactly how to land where needed, and how it needed to be done...all we hear about Cooper is he could of seen the lights from the dam? the crew was given free airspace. they decided V23 was the best bet, but this was mainly further down the path where the terrain was creeping up on them altitude wise. they could of easily flew anywhere without alarming Cooper. Rat wanted to dump him in the ocean. if Cooper had a watch he would be flying on the honor system, hoping they were flying at the speed and direction he requested. McCoy had constant updates in order to land so close to his LZ. are we suggesting Cooper jumped where he lived? where exactly are the similarities? demands typed on flight plans? they said Cooper had makeup on his hands, did McCoy? they noticed right away he had makeup on..IMO, I see a novice meeting a pro, or a pro mocking a novice.....McCoy putting makeup on was done because he came on the plane with no makeup..it was meant to distract to allow the memory to fail when he first boarded the plane..didn't matter what it looked like...

Then, lets not forget that pesky little tie clip...I have the same clip. it's very small and I find it odd that most of the suspects had one, or they remember him having the clip. I don't see this clip being like the hope diamond that you would remember seeing decades later..it's hardly noticeable on the tie to begin with...

Shutter · « **Reply #1423 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:19:54 AM »

Quote

At the very least, this proves Danny Boy had done his homework. I don't know how well publicized the program was at the time, but I would think the crew would have been aware of them on board. Wouldn't it be more dangerous for them not to be?

I'm not sure what the rules were in the 70's, but they have to identify themselves as Marshal's at the gates, and with the crew...they don't like this option at all...

Quote

Federal air marshals travel incognito when they fly.

That's false, says Biles. FAMs are required to identify themselves to the gate crew and flight crew. But many don't like that approach and would prefer to fly undercover and unknown to everyone.

"It can be a disadvantage," says Biles. "The flight attendants might hand you a bigger bottle of water or do something else out of the ordinary that an observant person with bad intentions might notice."

Casaretti notes that the air marshals of most other countries fly incognito, adding that even then, "it's pretty evident when you walk down the aisle and see a guy who looks out of place, for example in good physical condition with a military haircut sitting in first class. According to the TSA, even if other passengers guess who the FAMs are, seeing them there promotes confidence in air travel."

Lynn · « **Reply #1424 on:** December 18, 2017, 03:26:22 PM »

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Quote
Remember, there is a third option here for a relationship between the Cooper hijacking and McCoy. McCoy may have participated in the Cooper skyjacking in a supportive fashion, either as a getaway guy or a student of the caper, etc. It doesn't have to be strictly McCoy-was-Cooper, or he not.

You think McCoy would allow Cooper to fly the plane blind, no direction, or updates? again, no similarities between the two.

McCoy displayed plenty of arrogant's..he said he could do it better, he flew a helicopter looking for himself that's hats off in my book, balls to the wall...he was comfortable enough to keep everything right in his home thinking nothing about being caught.

His arrogant's/mouth did him in, or we might of had two unsolved hijackings. IMO, we have McCoy mocking Cooper. he's on record stating he probably lost the money, he showed exactly how to land where needed, and how it needed to be done...all we hear about Cooper is he could of seen the lights from the dam? the crew was given free airspace. they decided V23 was the best bet, but this was mainly further down the path where the terrain was creeping up on them altitude wise. they could of easily flew anywhere without alarming Cooper. Rat wanted to dump him in the ocean. if Cooper had a watch he would be flying on the honor system, hoping they were flying at the speed and direction he requested. McCoy had constant updates in order to land so close to his LZ. are we suggesting Cooper jumped where he lived? where exactly are the similarities? demands typed on flight plans? they said Cooper had makeup on his hands, did McCoy? they noticed right away he had makeup on..IMO, I see a novice meeting a pro, or a pro mocking a novice.....McCoy putting makeup on was done because he came on the plane with no makeup..it was meant to distract to allow the memory to fail when he first boarded the plane..didn't matter what it looked like...

Then, lets not forget that pesky little tie clip...I have the same clip. it's very small and I find it odd that most of the suspects had one, or they remember him having the clip. I don't see this clip being like the hope diamond that you would remember seeing decades later..it's hardly noticeable on the tie to begin with...

Shutter, what was that about make-up on DBC's hands? I haven't read that before. Where are you finding it?

Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 639099 times)

Shutter

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Bruce A. Smith

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Shutter

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MeyerLouie

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dcmey

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Bruce A. Smith

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Bruce A. Smith

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Shutter

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Bruce A. Smith

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Lynn

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Bruce A. Smith

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Lynn

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Shutter

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Shutter

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Lynn

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