Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 650208 times)

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1440 on: January 03, 2018, 11:59:04 AM »
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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...


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  Am mostly using my Cooper obsession for a fiction story at the moment, but have been reading as much as I can, rest-of-life permitting. A lot of the FBI "Mad Libs" docs, the Geoffrey Grey uploads with the witness interviews, some of the Citizen Sleuth stuff, particularly the Tena Bar/Palmer report analyses, and as much as I can of the fab Sluggo site (is Sluggo still around, by the way?) Next pay is treat-self-to-books time. My main interest for the fiction story is what actually happened on the plane (and at the airport). But even that is pretty hard to pin down, with witnesses at times even contradicting their own testimonies. Have learned a great deal about memory and eyewitnesses! I did notice in the original news (Cronkite) vid georger posted something I hadn't really paid attention to before - the passengers coming off the plane. Lots of men in suits! (I again refer to the bowler hat scene of the Thomas Crown remake). On my first trip through Toronto airport as a kid, I remember thinking how all the men in suits looked alike. Perfect disguise unto itself. Oh, and you can also see in the video the cowboy who is mentioned in the transcripts and who annoyed DBC, but doesn't seem to have been interviewed. Sometimes I have to take a few days' breather- as the words of a huge 1971 hit go, "Where Do I Begin?" :) It's fun having people to talk to about this stuff, though.

Sluggo is apparently still alive, there is no information about him dying, but he has not responded publicly to any attempts to contact him, either directly at his home or online, in several years.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1441 on: January 03, 2018, 01:02:13 PM »
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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...


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  Am mostly using my Cooper obsession for a fiction story at the moment, but have been reading as much as I can, rest-of-life permitting. A lot of the FBI "Mad Libs" docs, the Geoffrey Grey uploads with the witness interviews, some of the Citizen Sleuth stuff, particularly the Tena Bar/Palmer report analyses, and as much as I can of the fab Sluggo site (is Sluggo still around, by the way?) Next pay is treat-self-to-books time. My main interest for the fiction story is what actually happened on the plane (and at the airport). But even that is pretty hard to pin down, with witnesses at times even contradicting their own testimonies. Have learned a great deal about memory and eyewitnesses! I did notice in the original news (Cronkite) vid georger posted something I hadn't really paid attention to before - the passengers coming off the plane. Lots of men in suits! (I again refer to the bowler hat scene of the Thomas Crown remake). On my first trip through Toronto airport as a kid, I remember thinking how all the men in suits looked alike. Perfect disguise unto itself. Oh, and you can also see in the video the cowboy who is mentioned in the transcripts and who annoyed DBC, but doesn't seem to have been interviewed. Sometimes I have to take a few days' breather- as the words of a huge 1971 hit go, "Where Do I Begin?" :) It's fun having people to talk to about this stuff, though.

Sluggo is apparently still alive, there is no information about him dying, but he has not responded publicly to any attempts to contact him, either directly at his home or online, in several years.

Sluggo posted to a non-Cooper site not too long ago which I noticed. His site is still up.   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1442 on: January 03, 2018, 01:56:54 PM »
sounds like he is no longer interested in the case...
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1443 on: January 03, 2018, 03:07:51 PM »
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sounds like he is no longer interested in the case...

Perhaps he decided it was unsolvable, or got tired of conjecture/infighting. I was reading a lot on an older Cooper chat site - can't remember what it was called - but eventually abandoned it because two people in particular seemed to hijack (ha-ha) every thread screaming about their favourite suspects and there was a lot of bickering in general. This site does a better job shutting that down, thought I did see somebody ranting about Obama or Trump or Rosie or somebody the other day, and frankly if I could stand to hear about current US politics, I'd be reading about that rather than digging into a case that's almost as old as I am. I certainly didn't mean to imply Sluggo had passed on, and I'm very glad to hear he is still with us!

I do have a fave suspect myself, but try to keep an open mind. I am not overly interested in conspiracy theories; however, it is crystal clear just reading the basic documents in this case that there are either major chunks missing from even the witness interviews, or the FBI screwed up on those. So I'm also staying open to critique of the FBI investigation. (Plus, y'know. Hoover.)

I do think outside-the-box thinking is as important in this case as the rather limited evidence available. (I'm gonna start having dreams about those missing cigarette butts, not good as I'm trying to quit smoking for 2018! ;) ) I'm glad so many are focusing on the scientific aspects of the case, as I have nothing to contribute re: the technicalities of parachuting, cartography, or dredging, for example.

But I've always been a mystery obsessive (unsolved stuff drives me batty), and I'm good at analysing little details. (Agatha Christie has only tricked me thrice in 80+ books. ;) For example, Tina's testimony mentions Cooper's fine mannerisms. Having seen my fave suspect on video, I am sure he possesses them; I would imagine someone "between genders" like Dayton may have as well. Eliminating suspects based on looks is a bit tricky in this guessing game (though I'm willing to eliminate Weber based on those ears - an impossible characteristic to disguise). But things like a rough way of speaking, uneducated diction, or a lack of those genteel mannerisms could perhaps eliminate some suspects.

Sorry I'm all over the board here. So much stuff! But I'm not sure the case is unsolvable, despite its labyrinthine nature. The skydiving community in 1971 was small. I'm amazed how often I've typed in a suspect's name and found them mentioned on some skydiving forum in non-Cooper-related tales. (For any skydiver who may be on here, by the way - from what heights were people doing those "batwing" type dives in 1971?)

Oh, one thing I do know a lot about: extreme temperatures. I lived in Labrador (northern Canada, just below the Far North) growing up; I lived in Vancouver, BC as an adult. Both about 16+ years. School was cancelled in Labrador at -63 to -83 degrees Celsius, windchill included. We were outdoors in the cold at -40 or lower regularly, for long periods. We did not die. Some people went out in shirtsleeves at -10 or lower. My only weather issues on the West Coast were the lack of sunlight due to the months of rain. So unless someone thinks Cooper died of Vitamin D deficiency during the jump, I'm not buying death by exposure. (Oh, by the way, science fans - don't know if anyone has mentioned it here, I'm certain someone must have by now, but just in case, remember that the calculation method for windchill changed at the turn of the millennium. Those numbers above were recorded in the old system. :) )

Now, of course, jumping out of a plane into a storm is not the same as walking into one. But presuming Cooper was an experienced skydiver and didn't get hit by lightning, I do not buy that he died from exposure. The most cursory read of parachuting sites convinces me the jump was totally survivable. Landing in the woods is something else again. (This is how far this Cooper takes you in research: I actually looked up when bears hibernate in the Pacific Northwest. Late November, by the way.)

I'll end it here, sorry for babbling. Love the forum - awesome job moderating, Shutter. You all make me feel less nuts for thinking of 1971 every time someone mentions a plane. (Like that dude today who got in trouble for escaping a long delay by emergency exiting onto the wing. All I could think was, "What if there's a hijacker on board and that's why the plane's grounded, you moron?" ;) ) Hope 2018 treats you all well.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1444 on: January 03, 2018, 03:20:32 PM »
That sounds like Dropzone where two people "hijacked" the thread..suspects are a complicated thing with this case..most tend to get very angry when you disagree with them..some go for years trying to discredit you....

Thank you for the kind words...you appear to be a breath of fresh air needed on this forum....

Shutter
 
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1445 on: January 03, 2018, 04:10:48 PM »
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sounds like he is no longer interested in the case...

Perhaps he decided it was unsolvable, or got tired of conjecture/infighting. I was reading a lot on an older Cooper chat site - can't remember what it was called - but eventually abandoned it because two people in particular seemed to hijack (ha-ha) every thread screaming about their favourite suspects and there was a lot of bickering in general. This site does a better job shutting that down, thought I did see somebody ranting about Obama or Trump or Rosie or somebody the other day, and frankly if I could stand to hear about current US politics, I'd be reading about that rather than digging into a case that's almost as old as I am. I certainly didn't mean to imply Sluggo had passed on, and I'm very glad to hear he is still with us!

I do have a fave suspect myself, but try to keep an open mind. I am not overly interested in conspiracy theories; however, it is crystal clear just reading the basic documents in this case that there are either major chunks missing from even the witness interviews, or the FBI screwed up on those. So I'm also staying open to critique of the FBI investigation. (Plus, y'know. Hoover.)

I do think outside-the-box thinking is as important in this case as the rather limited evidence available. (I'm gonna start having dreams about those missing cigarette butts, not good as I'm trying to quit smoking for 2018! ;) ) I'm glad so many are focusing on the scientific aspects of the case, as I have nothing to contribute re: the technicalities of parachuting, cartography, or dredging, for example.

But I've always been a mystery obsessive (unsolved stuff drives me batty), and I'm good at analysing little details. (Agatha Christie has only tricked me thrice in 80+ books. ;) For example, Tina's testimony mentions Cooper's fine mannerisms. Having seen my fave suspect on video, I am sure he possesses them; I would imagine someone "between genders" like Dayton may have as well. Eliminating suspects based on looks is a bit tricky in this guessing game (though I'm willing to eliminate Weber based on those ears - an impossible characteristic to disguise). But things like a rough way of speaking, uneducated diction, or a lack of those genteel mannerisms could perhaps eliminate some suspects.

Sorry I'm all over the board here. So much stuff! But I'm not sure the case is unsolvable, despite its labyrinthine nature. The skydiving community in 1971 was small. I'm amazed how often I've typed in a suspect's name and found them mentioned on some skydiving forum in non-Cooper-related tales. (For any skydiver who may be on here, by the way - from what heights were people doing those "batwing" type dives in 1971?)

Oh, one thing I do know a lot about: extreme temperatures. I lived in Labrador (northern Canada, just below the Far North) growing up; I lived in Vancouver, BC as an adult. Both about 16+ years. School was cancelled in Labrador at -63 to -83 degrees Celsius, windchill included. We were outdoors in the cold at -40 or lower regularly, for long periods. We did not die. Some people went out in shirtsleeves at -10 or lower. My only weather issues on the West Coast were the lack of sunlight due to the months of rain. So unless someone thinks Cooper died of Vitamin D deficiency during the jump, I'm not buying death by exposure. (Oh, by the way, science fans - don't know if anyone has mentioned it here, I'm certain someone must have by now, but just in case, remember that the calculation method for windchill changed at the turn of the millennium. Those numbers above were recorded in the old system. :) )

Now, of course, jumping out of a plane into a storm is not the same as walking into one. But presuming Cooper was an experienced skydiver and didn't get hit by lightning, I do not buy that he died from exposure. The most cursory read of parachuting sites convinces me the jump was totally survivable. Landing in the woods is something else again. (This is how far this Cooper takes you in research: I actually looked up when bears hibernate in the Pacific Northwest. Late November, by the way.)

I'll end it here, sorry for babbling. Love the forum - awesome job moderating, Shutter. You all make me feel less nuts for thinking of 1971 every time someone mentions a plane. (Like that dude today who got in trouble for escaping a long delay by emergency exiting onto the wing. All I could think was, "What if there's a hijacker on board and that's why the plane's grounded, you moron?" ;) ) Hope 2018 treats you all well.

Good post - thanks!
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1446 on: January 04, 2018, 05:13:17 PM »
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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
  Am mostly using my Cooper obsession for a fiction story at the moment, but have been reading as much as I can, rest-of-life permitting. A lot of the FBI "Mad Libs" docs, the Geoffrey Grey uploads with the witness interviews, some of the Citizen Sleuth stuff, particularly the Tena Bar/Palmer report analyses, and as much as I can of the fab Sluggo site (is Sluggo still around, by the way?)


The question of "Where is Sluggo?" has been asked by many. I will try emailing him again, but the last contact I had with him was several years ago. He did not give me much information on why he has seemingly dropped out of Cooper World.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1447 on: January 04, 2018, 09:22:39 PM »
Last post has been removed...we are going to focus on DB Cooper, and less about poking members on this forum...

Shutter
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1448 on: January 05, 2018, 02:17:34 AM »
I've checked my records on Sluggo, but no response as of the moment. Robert 99 posted a few years ago on Sluggo. Any update, R99?
 

FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1449 on: January 05, 2018, 08:35:52 AM »
Was it possible for a third party to listen to the plane/tower comms?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1450 on: January 05, 2018, 10:09:06 AM »
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Was it possible for a third party to listen to the plane/tower comms?

according to Tom Kaye ham operators were listening in and helped with timing issues...
 
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1451 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:46 AM »
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I've checked my records on Sluggo, but no response as of the moment. Robert 99 posted a few years ago on Sluggo. Any update, R99?

Read reply #1440 and later ones above.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1452 on: January 05, 2018, 02:06:34 PM »
Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 02:36:58 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1453 on: January 05, 2018, 02:44:01 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.
 
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1454 on: January 05, 2018, 03:15:42 PM »
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Was it possible for a third party to listen to the plane/tower comms?

according to Tom Kaye ham operators were listening in and helped with timing issues...

Please elaborate...