Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 649795 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #1425 on:** December 18, 2017, 04:09:44 PM »

It's in the book "The Real McCoy" and is discussed in the video recently posted here about McCoy. this is another reason I have credibility issue's with these guys...

The gang from Utah claim the following

1) gas receipts made by McCoy in Vegas
2) collect phone to his house made from the Tropicana (Vegas)
3) Cooper had typed demands on flight plans
4) Cooper had stains on his fingers believed to come from makeup.

none of the above has any documents to support what they are claiming...the Portland & Seattle FBI doesn't buy into this, in fact the Portland office openly state this in the video above. I think it's possible they are using second, third hand hearsay evidence within the FBI and could be the reason they have no documentation as proof..

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Lynn · « **Reply #1426 on:** December 18, 2017, 04:44:43 PM »

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It's in the book "The Real McCoy" and is discussed in the video recently posted here about McCoy. this is another reason I have credibility issue's with these guys...

The gang from Utah claim the following

1) gas receipts made by McCoy in Vegas
2) collect phone to his house made from the Tropicana (Vegas)
3) Cooper had typed demands on flight plans
4) Cooper had stains on his fingers believed to come from makeup.

none of the above has any documents to support what they are claiming...the Portland & Seattle FBI doesn't buy into this, in fact the Portland office openly state this in the video above. I think it's possible they are using second, third hand hearsay evidence within the FBI and could be the reason they have no documentation as proof..

.

Yeah, I'm with you. The first chunk of FBI vault stuff I read was stories about guys who fooled a Newsweek reporter with a trumped-up DBC confession tale, and that was early days. I'm just waiting to read the book about how DB Cooper was the same woman who shot J.R.

Shutter · « **Reply #1427 on:** December 18, 2017, 04:47:14 PM »

Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...

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dcmey · « **Reply #1428 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:05:34 PM »

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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...

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I was reading some of the passenger descriptions of Cooper and a number of them thought that he was 35 and 5'9 to 5'10. It just makes you wonder about some of the suspects that may have been eliminated because they didn't fit the description of 6'0 and mid 40's. It also makes me wonder about a person that wass in there late 20's but looked older could have Cooper. Just a few thoughts after I did some reading.

Shutter · « **Reply #1429 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:46:42 PM »

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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...

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I was reading some of the passenger descriptions of Cooper and a number of them thought that he was 35 and 5'9 to 5'10. It just makes you wonder about some of the suspects that may have been eliminated because they didn't fit the description of 6'0 and mid 40's. It also makes me wonder about a person that wass in there late 20's but looked older could have Cooper. Just a few thoughts after I did some reading.

You have to remember that all the passengers never knew what was going on, and most only got a quick look at him. they had no reason to remember him in detail. this would be similar to you trying to remember what the people in line at the store looked like 20 minutes after you left. you had no reason to remember them so it's not going to be accurate...most guessed the height never seeing him standing up...

dcmey · « **Reply #1430 on:** December 18, 2017, 10:27:09 PM »

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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I was reading some of the passenger descriptions of Cooper and a number of them thought that he was 35 and 5'9 to 5'10. It just makes you wonder about some of the suspects that may have been eliminated because they didn't fit the description of 6'0 and mid 40's. It also makes me wonder about a person that wass in there late 20's but looked older could have Cooper. Just a few thoughts after I did some reading.

You have to remember that all the passengers never knew what was going on, and most only got a quick look at him. they had no reason to remember him in detail. this would be similar to you trying to remember what the people in line at the store looked like 20 minutes after you left. you had no reason to remember them so it's not going to be accurate...most guessed the height never seeing him standing up...

While I understand what your saying, Eyewitness accounts are not always accurate. Here is a link to an article that is an interesting read. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Shutter · « **Reply #1431 on:** December 18, 2017, 10:38:30 PM »

correct, but most crimes last only seconds leaving little room for a good description. the major witnesses spent considerable time with Cooper. we have several witnesses giving similar descriptions that seen Cooper for a long period of time. this case is not like a typical crime so the average stats will conflict with this crime. IMO...

Have you read the PDF with Agent Larry Carr on Dropzone? he explains a lot of this on that thread..

dcmey · « **Reply #1432 on:** December 18, 2017, 10:52:39 PM »

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correct, but most crimes last only seconds leaving little room for a good description. the major witnesses spent considerable time with Cooper. we have several witnesses giving similar descriptions that seen Cooper for a long period of time. this case is not like a typical crime so the average stats will conflict with this crime. IMO...

Have you read the PDF with Agent Larry Carr on Dropzone? he explains a lot of this on that thread..

I will have to check that out.

Shutter · « **Reply #1433 on:** December 19, 2017, 10:09:59 AM »

Agent Larry Carr....

If your willing to accept that these individuals were not able to obtain basic physical identifiers for Cooper then he could have been of any race, any height and any weight. The description came from many who saw him, not just Schaffner and Mucklow. Several passengers sat near Cooper and noticed him because of his actions. They reported a physical description of Cooper as Schaffner and Mucklow. As did the ticket agent in Portland.

Under the "trust no I-witness" philosophy, there is no base of fact to go from, maybe he was actually a she? Where do you stop? there has to be a baseline of fact, you simply cannot conduct an effective investigation if every human being is a suspect

There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case. Mucklow spent almost five hours with Cooper, I think she could have got the base physical indentifiers correct, especially when the others reported almost the same.

377 · « **Reply #1434 on:** December 19, 2017, 12:55:59 PM »

Shutter wrote: "There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case."

Agree. Tina's hours long encounter was not the typical crime eyewitness situation. I wonder if any solid research exists on eyewitness accuracy when the period of observation was hours instead of seconds?

377

Shutter · « **Reply #1435 on:** December 19, 2017, 01:01:17 PM »

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Shutter wrote: "There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case."

Agree. Tina's hours long encounter was not the typical crime eyewitness situation. I wonder if any solid research exists on eyewitness accuracy when the period of observation was hours instead of seconds?

377

I'm sure you would find the description to be more accurate. you still have people that don't see important details, everyone is different. when you have several people with similar conclusions, the odds increase with it's accuracy...

dcmey · « **Reply #1436 on:** December 20, 2017, 11:40:21 PM »

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Shutter wrote: "There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case."

Agree. Tina's hours long encounter was not the typical crime eyewitness situation. I wonder if any solid research exists on eyewitness accuracy when the period of observation was hours instead of seconds?

377
What I do know is that there would be a stressfull situation to be in. In theory I understand what you and agent Carr are saying, I just wonder how much stress could take away from a good description of the person committing the crime.

I'm sure you would find the description to be more accurate. you still have people that don't see important details, everyone is different. when you have several people with similar conclusions, the odds increase with it's accuracy...

Shutter · « **Reply #1437 on:** December 20, 2017, 11:56:58 PM »

Quote

What I do know is that there would be a stressfull situation to be in. In theory I understand what you and agent Carr are saying, I just wonder how much stress could take away from a good description of the person committing the crime.

A lot of people seem to miss the point with this issue..no matter what you will have stress with any given crime. you will take this into consideration. we have the main witnesses giving very similar descriptions (under stress). if we had mixed descriptions such as the passengers we would not have a good description to go on, but that doesn't seem to be the case. it will probably boil down to the sketch being off more than anything if Cooper is ever ID'd. the fact of them given similar descriptions kind of tells you that stress didn't play too much of a roll.

Just my opinion....

MeyerLouie · « **Reply #1438 on:** December 21, 2017, 05:50:24 PM »

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Quote
What I do know is that there would be a stressfull situation to be in. In theory I understand what you and agent Carr are saying, I just wonder how much stress could take away from a good description of the person committing the crime.

A lot of people seem to miss the point with this issue..no matter what you will have stress with any given crime. you will take this into consideration. we have the main witnesses giving very similar descriptions (under stress). if we had mixed descriptions such as the passengers we would not have a good description to go on, but that doesn't seem to be the case. it will probably boil down to the sketch being off more than anything if Cooper is ever ID'd. the fact of them given similar descriptions kind of tells you that stress didn't play too much of a roll.

Just my opinion....

The only description that really matters is Tina Mucklow's. We seem to underestimate her ability and training. As a stew, she is trained to notice details, and that especially pertains to emergency, life-threatening situations. She had 5 hours! Not five seconds or five minutes, but 5 hours! After five hours -- regardless of any stress, trauma, or otherwise -- she is going to note and remember key features, mannerisms, and quirks of this guy. That is what she was trained to do! And that is what she did! No one seems to mention that about her. We all assume she is at the same intelligence level and would react in much the same way as most of us. Not true. She was a trained professional. She will be able to do more than any of us or more than the average guy or gal sitting on an airplane looking around or more than anyone trying to hit on one of the stewardesses. I trust her description, and contrary to what Bruce Smith says or thinks in his "professional" psychoanalysis of Tina Mucklow, I think she was pretty sane and normal, then and after.

Meyer

Lynn · « **Reply #1439 on:** January 03, 2018, 01:37:04 AM »

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Have you went through all the documents in our vault? Tom Colbert also has a lot of files...

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Am mostly using my Cooper obsession for a fiction story at the moment, but have been reading as much as I can, rest-of-life permitting. A lot of the FBI "Mad Libs" docs, the Geoffrey Grey uploads with the witness interviews, some of the Citizen Sleuth stuff, particularly the Tena Bar/Palmer report analyses, and as much as I can of the fab Sluggo site (is Sluggo still around, by the way?) Next pay is treat-self-to-books time. My main interest for the fiction story is what actually happened on the plane (and at the airport). But even that is pretty hard to pin down, with witnesses at times even contradicting their own testimonies. Have learned a great deal about memory and eyewitnesses! I did notice in the original news (Cronkite) vid georger posted something I hadn't really paid attention to before - the passengers coming off the plane. Lots of men in suits! (I again refer to the bowler hat scene of the Thomas Crown remake). On my first trip through Toronto airport as a kid, I remember thinking how all the men in suits looked alike. Perfect disguise unto itself. Oh, and you can also see in the video the cowboy who is mentioned in the transcripts and who annoyed DBC, but doesn't seem to have been interviewed. Sometimes I have to take a few days' breather- as the words of a huge 1971 hit go, "Where Do I Begin?"

It's fun having people to talk to about this stuff, though.

Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 649795 times)

Shutter

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Lynn

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Shutter

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dcmey

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Shutter

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dcmey

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Shutter

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dcmey

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Shutter

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377

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Shutter

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dcmey

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Shutter

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MeyerLouie

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Lynn

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