Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 204906 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2895 on: March 22, 2020, 08:22:07 PM »
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I understand that but exploiting the fact of a bomb over a city would be plausible to believe it would be tracked in the path it's currently on. even suggesting a change in it's path warning not to fly over cities. today this would be the protocol, in 1971, not so sure since it's documented flying over heavily populated area's in Reno. the heavily populated area was avoided in Portland. could be a mile off to the west as well.

Where is the documentation that the airliner flew over a heavily populated area in Reno?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2896 on: March 22, 2020, 08:52:16 PM »
here....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2897 on: March 22, 2020, 09:43:17 PM »
At around 10:33 Oakland was ready for a handoff to Reno but Reno couldn't see the target yet. Oakland responded for them to "stretch" there radar out to the northwest. the target was apparently picked up. I'm sure Portland knew exactly where 305 was that evening...
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2898 on: March 22, 2020, 10:24:33 PM »
It’s kinda funny how people try to sell this Western Flight plan by using this “ why would they fly over a populated area “ story ! However when I ask a simple question where exactly is this unpopulated area West of Portland..... I get no response ! I lived here most of my life and delivered mail in S W Portland and lived there. Beaverton borders Portland to the West and is home to Nike and a ton of businesses ! Further West is Hillsboro a mere 20 miles from PDX. Interesting!
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2899 on: March 22, 2020, 10:55:09 PM »
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At around 10:33 Oakland was ready for a handoff to Reno but Reno couldn't see the target yet. Oakland responded for them to "stretch" there radar out to the northwest. the target was apparently picked up. I'm sure Portland knew exactly where 305 was that evening...

Read the Oakland ATC radio transcripts and the Reno Tower radio transcripts.  The aircraft flight path was never "due east" (with respect to the grid lines) as the FBI report states.  The magnetic variation was about 15 to 20 degrees east at Reno in 1971.  The controllers were giving directions to the airliner with respect to the magnetic heading.  When told to fly a heading of 090 they were actually flying a heading (with respect to the grid lines) of about 115 to 120 degrees or east south east.

The above means that the airliner was approaching Reno from the west north west and passing north of the city of Reno.  The controller was trying to get the airliner established on the localizer for runway 16 for a very long final approach.  The airliner overshot the localizer by about a mile to the east and was given a heading back toward it.  The airliner was told if it had to circle to do so east of the localizer and it did make at least one circle to the east.

In 1971, I doubt if the airliner did much flying over either Reno or Sparks. 
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2900 on: March 22, 2020, 10:59:18 PM »
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It’s kinda funny how people try to sell this Western Flight plan by using this “ why would they fly over a populated area “ story ! However when I ask a simple question where exactly is this unpopulated area West of Portland..... I get no response ! I lived here most of my life and delivered mail in S W Portland and lived there. Beaverton borders Portland to the West and is home to Nike and a ton of businesses ! Further West is Hillsboro a mere 20 miles from PDX. Interesting!

Are you suggesting that the area about 10 miles west of PIA was as built up as downtown Portland in 1971?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2901 on: March 22, 2020, 11:09:18 PM »
It's on the transcripts...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2902 on: March 22, 2020, 11:21:11 PM »
I'm not certain I understand the argument here. The airport is in Reno, therefore the jet had to fly over Reno to get to the Reno airport. This is not the same thing as flying over densely populated areas of Portland/Vancouver unnecessarily which is precisely what the FBI Flight Path depicts.

BTW, I am very familiar with Reno and Reno is a fraction of the size of Portland/Vancouver.

Finally, flying in between downtown Portland and Beaverton in 1971 is not at all the same as flying over downtown Portland. Not to mention flying west of downtown Portland--which Captain Scott apparently insisted he did--is along a straight line when considering a Maylay to Canby path.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2903 on: March 22, 2020, 11:22:46 PM »
which Captain Scott apparently insisted he did...

where is that documented as concrete? what I mean is where did any of the pilots state flying a straight line from Malay or surrounding area's. I would of said something if I was part of the crew. "why do you have us over Battleground" ?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 11:28:33 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2904 on: March 22, 2020, 11:36:57 PM »
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It's on the transcripts...

What is the point here?  In other places the controllers say west north west.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2905 on: March 22, 2020, 11:37:14 PM »
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which Captain Scott apparently insisted he did...

where is that documented as concrete? what I mean is where did any of the pilots state flying a straight line from Malay or surrounding area's. I would of said something if I was part of the crew. "why do you have us over Battleground" ?

Well according to at least one media report from Himmelsbach's retirement party, that is in effect what Scott stated.

Also, according to Ammerman, he believes he only gave one heading--roughly 160--to the T-38 chase plane as it followed 305 south.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2906 on: March 22, 2020, 11:38:39 PM »
media report vs radar data, really?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2907 on: March 22, 2020, 11:39:55 PM »
I suspect all of this is futile. People are going to believe what they are going to believe. My task now is to prove that R99 and I are correct.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2908 on: March 22, 2020, 11:41:47 PM »
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media report vs radar data, really?

OK, so ignore the media report. On the other hand, Ammerman related his info to me face-to-face.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2909 on: March 22, 2020, 11:43:13 PM »
I'm trying to make sense of Portland pretty much ignoring a bomb coming there way, but the pilots were concerned and management? then specific data was given by the Portland operator who was very explicit with degree and location? two  separate reports near V23 from radar operators?