Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 219307 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2880 on: March 22, 2020, 05:04:53 PM »
What's interesting is the fact of screaming that 305 would never fly over Portland and then say Portland atc probably never tracked them? even though the operator is on record...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 05:05:06 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2881 on: March 22, 2020, 05:10:55 PM »
How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2882 on: March 22, 2020, 05:19:27 PM »
Well, I'm quite certain somebody F'd up somewhere somehow. After all, the money on Tena Bar doesn't lie. The placard doesn't lie. The fiberglass skirt doesn't lie. The haven't-found-a-damn-thing-in-50-years along the FBI Flight Path doesn't lie.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2883 on: March 22, 2020, 05:34:20 PM »
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Well, I'm quite certain somebody F'd up somewhere somehow. After all, the money on Tena Bar doesn't lie. The placard doesn't lie. The fiberglass skirt doesn't lie. The haven't-found-a-damn-thing-in-50-years along the FBI Flight Path doesn't lie.

Those are odds and assumptions, not facts...you don't know if 305 had the emergency panel and you don't know if the piece found was from 305. the serial number was found on the piece while it hasn't been located to match. wrongful convictions happen like this all the time..I thinks it's possible though..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2884 on: March 22, 2020, 05:36:09 PM »
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What's interesting is the fact of screaming that 305 would never fly over Portland and then say Portland atc probably never tracked them? even though the operator is on record...

Himmelsbach is on record as indicating that his helicopter stayed on the west and southwest side of Portland.  And a member of this thread has previously claimed (but he will probably deny it now) that the National Guard helicopter pilot stated that when Himmelsbach boarded the helicopter at the NG base at PIA, they flew up to Woodland and then south from there.  They always remained on the west side of Portland.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2885 on: March 22, 2020, 05:41:43 PM »
He must of failed to ask for directions?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2886 on: March 22, 2020, 05:43:52 PM »
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How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?

NWA management in Minneapolis ruled out the suggestion from Rataczak that they climb above the overcast and fly out over the Pacific until Cooper jumped and blew the plane up as the flight crew had been told he would probably do.

Do you think NWA management would approve the airliner circling over Portland until it was blown up?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2887 on: March 22, 2020, 05:45:13 PM »
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How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?

NWA management in Minneapolis ruled out the suggestion from Rataczak that they climb above the overcast and fly out over the Pacific until Cooper jumped and blew the plane up as the flight crew had been told he would probably do.

Do you think NWA management would approve the airliner circling over Portland until it was blown up?

Nope, do you still wish to believe Portland wasn't tracking them?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2888 on: March 22, 2020, 05:48:21 PM »
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How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?

NWA management in Minneapolis ruled out the suggestion from Rataczak that they climb above the overcast and fly out over the Pacific until Cooper jumped and blew the plane up as the flight crew had been told he would probably do.

Do you think NWA management would approve the airliner circling over Portland until it was blown up?

Nope, do you still wish to believe Portland wasn't tracking them?

Who did Portland radar normally track?  Did they track traffic that was not in their area of responsibility or did they just track aircraft that were arriving and departing PIA?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2889 on: March 22, 2020, 05:48:29 PM »
They are on record circling over "heavily populated" area's in Reno?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2890 on: March 22, 2020, 05:50:17 PM »
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How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?

NWA management in Minneapolis ruled out the suggestion from Rataczak that they climb above the overcast and fly out over the Pacific until Cooper jumped and blew the plane up as the flight crew had been told he would probably do.

Do you think NWA management would approve the airliner circling over Portland until it was blown up?

Nope, do you still wish to believe Portland wasn't tracking them?

Who did Portland radar normally track?  Did they track traffic that was not in their area of responsibility or did they just track aircraft that were arriving and departing PIA?

A bomb on a plane becomes everyone's concern...not just management or pilots. especially if it's headed there way...common sense?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2891 on: March 22, 2020, 06:03:01 PM »
What I've done here is explain the way my mind processes the info that we have. I certainly understand and appreciate that others process info differently and therefore arrive at different conclusions.

Until something materially changes...e.g., Cooper's parachute, attache' case or money is found near Orchards...I'm quite certain that the FBI Flight Path is off by several miles at the critical moment.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2892 on: March 22, 2020, 06:46:09 PM »
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How many incidents have there been around Portland with "lost" planes in the area or overlooked planes that caused a crash. sometimes it sounds like they couldn't even guide them into the runway?

NWA management in Minneapolis ruled out the suggestion from Rataczak that they climb above the overcast and fly out over the Pacific until Cooper jumped and blew the plane up as the flight crew had been told he would probably do.

Do you think NWA management would approve the airliner circling over Portland until it was blown up?

Nope, do you still wish to believe Portland wasn't tracking them?

Who did Portland radar normally track?  Did they track traffic that was not in their area of responsibility or did they just track aircraft that were arriving and departing PIA?

A bomb on a plane becomes everyone's concern...not just management or pilots. especially if it's headed there way...common sense?

The only people the airliner crew talked to were the Seattle ATC controllers and NWA personnel through the ARINC link.  Some of the ARINC communications were relayed through other aircraft.  There is a remote Seattle ATC send/receive radio facility on the Oregon side and just across the river from Tina Bar.  The airliner crew would not be talking to anyone in the Portland tower.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2893 on: March 22, 2020, 07:22:12 PM »
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What's interesting is the fact of screaming that 305 would never fly over Portland and then say Portland atc probably never tracked them? even though the operator is on record...

Himmelsbach is on record as indicating that his helicopter stayed on the west and southwest side of Portland.  And a member of this thread has previously claimed (but he will probably deny it now) that the National Guard helicopter pilot stated that when Himmelsbach boarded the helicopter at the NG base at PIA, they flew up to Woodland and then south from there.  They always remained on the west side of Portland.

I’m just kinda curious what do we mean by flying the west side of Portland. I’ve finished my Postal career delivering mail from 1980 until 2001 on the West side of Portland. Beaverton is only 8 miles away and Hillsboro further Westerly ! Where’s this unpopulated area ? I can name all the areas and cities if you want me to. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #2894 on: March 22, 2020, 07:22:59 PM »
I understand that but exploiting the fact of a bomb over a city would be plausible to believe it would be tracked in the path it's currently on. even suggesting a change in it's path warning not to fly over cities. today this would be the protocol, in 1971, not so sure since it's documented flying over heavily populated area's in Reno. the heavily populated area was avoided in Portland. could be a mile off to the west as well.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2020, 07:23:53 PM by Shutter »