Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 554748 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4860 on: August 03, 2020, 04:22:49 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.



 
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4861 on: August 03, 2020, 04:27:16 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.


Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.


And, the Lord made the World in 6 days and on the 7th day he rested. Its the only REALISTIC WAY!

Whatever ONLY REALISTIC WAY means to anyone juggling that phrase in his hands!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 04:31:35 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4862 on: August 03, 2020, 04:43:05 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.


Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.


And, the Lord made the World in 6 days and on the 7th day he rested. Its the only REALISTIC WAY!

Whatever ONLY REALISTIC WAY means to anyone juggling that phrase in his hands!

Georger, your (bleep) apparently needs changing.
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4863 on: August 03, 2020, 06:13:11 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.
R99,

I think that is a realistic, reasonable, fact-based scenario, and it does fit with TK’s analysis. The problem of course is the flight path. If the flight path is more toward Battle Ground and less toward Woodland, then it makes Cooper lawn darting into Caterpillar Island impossible. Obviously, we have discussed your views of the western flight path extensively, and i don’t think it’s necessary to re-litigate. If you can prove the western flight path conclusively then you have a virtually air tight theory.

The problem is that the FBI, the Air Force, and many others think you’re wrong.

I would like to know if a landing further downstream could be possible given Tom’s constraints. It would require the money to be in the water longer and a mechanism to bring it up out of the water by about 3 meters. Not easy.

And here we are:  trying to put the square peg of the flight path into the round hole of the money find.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4864 on: August 03, 2020, 06:18:13 PM »
Let me get this straight -

The spring diatoms prove that the three bundolas were in the wet sand at T-Bar or somewhere in the Columbia River in the Spring of 1979 - and not before - and then went somewhere else that did not have diatoms for the Summer, Fall of 1979 and the Winter of 1980.

Then they were discovered by Brian.

The Money Find just got more complicated, no?
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4865 on: August 03, 2020, 06:33:15 PM »
I just spoke with Tom...basically, the money didn't hit the water for 6 months..if you say Cooper bailed and made it and buried the money you are wrong..if he landed close to the Columbia the money has to get out of the bag then into the river in 6 months...I think he agreed it could be on shore for extended time and then get into the water but only a certain time frame during the year..
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4866 on: August 03, 2020, 06:54:52 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.
R99,

I think that is a realistic, reasonable, fact-based scenario, and it does fit with TK’s analysis. The problem of course is the flight path. If the flight path is more toward Battle Ground and less toward Woodland, then it makes Cooper lawn darting into Caterpillar Island impossible. Obviously, we have discussed your views of the western flight path extensively, and i don’t think it’s necessary to re-litigate. If you can prove the western flight path conclusively then you have a virtually air tight theory.

The problem is that the FBI, the Air Force, and many others think you’re wrong.

I would like to know if a landing further downstream could be possible given Tom’s constraints. It would require the money to be in the water longer and a mechanism to bring it up out of the water by about 3 meters. Not easy.

And here we are:  trying to put the square peg of the flight path into the round hole of the money find.

The Western Flight Path was developed first and then it became obvious that the only way for the money to get to Tina Bar was if Cooper was a no-pull.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4867 on: August 03, 2020, 07:30:26 PM »
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R99,

Based on Tom’s conclusions here, I think it’s even more likely that Cooper did not survive the jump, don’t you agree? Unless there are some bizarre circumstances, I don’t know why Cooper would allow himself to be separated from $6000 if he landed safely. I think it also puts his landing spot (either dead or alive) much closer to the Columbia. What do you think?

Agreed.  As Shutter points out above, I have previously posted any number of times over the past decade that the only realistic way for the money to get to the location where it was found was for Cooper to be a no-pull and to land either on the east side of Caterpillar Island or across the channel on the east side of the Columbia River.  And I believe that the available evidence supports the idea that the airliner passed Tina Bar basically along the west shore of the Columbia River.

The Northwest Lower River Road is built on top of a levee and anything on the east side of that levee is going to end up in Vancouver Lake and then go down Lake River and enter the Columbia River about 15-20 miles downstream (to the north) of Tina Bar.  Anything on the west side of the levee at Caterpillar Island is going to end up in the Columbia River channel.

This channel flow will basically form a boundary layer between the main river flow and the east bank of the Columbia, and in the relatively short distance from the island to the money find location will prevent anything from the main river flow washing up at Tina Bar.

The money was found several feet above the Columbia River water level (TK says about 3 meters) and this supports the idea that it was not deposited by the flow from the main channel.  And also that it was deposited during a flood or unusually high water event.

As TK has pointed out, money sinks to the bottom within a short time and stays there.  Consequently, the money had to be traveling downhill when it stopped at the location where it was found.  And it had to still be in the bag when it reached that point since the bill packets were actually touching as I understand it.

So if Cooper impacted as a no-pull on Caterpillar Island on November 24, 1971, his body would become disarticulated in the several months until the next high water event.  Cooper presumably had on a raincoat under the parachute harness (he would be an absolute fool to have discarded his raincoat) which, along with the money bag being tied to his body (per Tina's observation) and not the parachute harness, would keep most of the body together.  The head, arms, and legs would probably easily separate.  The end result would be that the body, parachutes, and money bag would not have any floating capability after being exposed to the Portland rains for several months.

But eventually a high water event, such as the Spring mountain snow runoff, would get high enough to reach and dislodge Cooper's remains.  From that point the remains would ALWAYS be moving downhill and underwater until they reached the point where the money was found lodged.  The money came out of the bag and the rest of the remains went downstream.

Some of the remains may have been sufficiently secured to remain at Cooper's original impact point.  There are briar patches in that area that are man eaters.  Just about anything that goes in to those briars is going to stay there.  So it may be possible that something remains on Caterpillar Island from the Cooper impact.
R99,

I think that is a realistic, reasonable, fact-based scenario, and it does fit with TK’s analysis. The problem of course is the flight path. If the flight path is more toward Battle Ground and less toward Woodland, then it makes Cooper lawn darting into Caterpillar Island impossible. Obviously, we have discussed your views of the western flight path extensively, and i don’t think it’s necessary to re-litigate. If you can prove the western flight path conclusively then you have a virtually air tight theory.

The problem is that the FBI, the Air Force, and many others think you’re wrong.

I would like to know if a landing further downstream could be possible given Tom’s constraints. It would require the money to be in the water longer and a mechanism to bring it up out of the water by about 3 meters. Not easy.

And here we are:  trying to put the square peg of the flight path into the round hole of the money find.

The answer to your question is no.
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4868 on: August 03, 2020, 07:39:42 PM »
R99,

I’m coming to that conclusion as well. I read Tom’s paper again.

The conclusion is that from November of 1971 to late spring/early summer of 1972, the money was dry - presumably sitting on the ground somewhere near the water, perhaps covered in snow and/or debris. Then in late spring/early summer of 1972, it moved to the water of the Columbia and very short after (I’m assuming no more than a couple of months, maybe less) it ended up on the shore of Tena Bar where it was soon buried under sand by natural processes.

The question remains:  where did it begin its journey once it ended up on the ground in November of 1971? Was it Caterpillar Island? Or further upstream? Or somewhere even more out there along the watershed?

What Tom’s paper rules out:

1. Cooper landed safely and then buried the money.
2. Cooper landed in the river along with the money and it was washed downstream where it ended up on Tena Bar.

Sequence of events:  The money was on land. Six months later it was in the water. A few weeks later it was back on land where it remained until found in 1980.
 
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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4869 on: August 03, 2020, 07:46:12 PM »
I look forward to reading Tom and Mark's paper concerning the diatoms. I intend on reading it very carefully within the next day.

I'm going to be looking for one thing in particular. That is, the evidence that is put forward to substantiate that the diatoms found on 377's twenty could not have migrated down through the sand at all during a high water event.

After all, it is simply inconceivable to me that three separate stacked packets of Cooper's ransom somehow ended up 20 miles from the FBI drop zone, several miles upstream, and 50 feet from the water's edge, yet they were not buried by a human being.

Also, if--and I underscore "if"--Tom's case proves strong that the money could have only been exposed to the Columbia in June, then we need to seriously consider that June was when the money was retrieved--not buried--at Tena Bar. More to the point, is it possible that DBC finally worked his way back to Tena Bar in June 1972--coincidentally one of only two high-water events between 1971 and 1980--and retrieved the majority of the ransom, however, mistakenly left three bundles behind? Could the bundles have been exposed to the Columbia during the retrieval process? I don't know.

Cheers!
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4870 on: August 03, 2020, 07:54:32 PM »
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I look forward to reading Tom and Mark's paper concerning the diatoms. I intend on reading it very carefully within the next day.

I'm going to be looking for one thing in particular. That is, the evidence that is put forward to substantiate that the diatoms found on 377's twenty could not have migrated down through the sand at all during a high water event.

After all, it is simply inconceivable to me that three separate stacked packets of Cooper's ransom somehow ended up 20 miles from the FBI drop zone, several miles upstream, and 50 feet from the water's edge, yet they were not buried by a human being.

Also, if--and I underscore "if"--Tom's case proves strong that the money could have only been exposed to the Columbia in June, then we need to seriously consider that June was when the money was retrieved--not buried--at Tena Bar. More to the point, is it possible that DBC finally worked his way back to Tena Bar in June 1972--coincidentally one of only two high-water events between 1971 and 1980--and retrieved the majority of the ransom, however, mistakenly left three bundles behind? Could the bundles have been exposed to the Columbia during the retrieval process? I don't know.

Cheers!
Tom’s paper explains why the money soaked in the Columbia would have more and different diatoms than money buried immediately in the sand without direct contact with water.

Also, for Cooper to have retrieved the money in June would require him to soak the money in the water of the Columbia for an extended period of time prior - weeks, perhaps months. That means he buried the money, then stuck at least $6000 grand in the Columbia, then buried again. Then dug it up. How does that make any sense?
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4871 on: August 04, 2020, 12:26:54 AM »
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I look forward to reading Tom and Mark's paper concerning the diatoms. I intend on reading it very carefully within the next day.

I'm going to be looking for one thing in particular. That is, the evidence that is put forward to substantiate that the diatoms found on 377's twenty could not have migrated down through the sand at all during a high water event.

After all, it is simply inconceivable to me that three separate stacked packets of Cooper's ransom somehow ended up 20 miles from the FBI drop zone, several miles upstream, and 50 feet from the water's edge, yet they were not buried by a human being.

Also, if--and I underscore "if"--Tom's case proves strong that the money could have only been exposed to the Columbia in June, then we need to seriously consider that June was when the money was retrieved--not buried--at Tena Bar. More to the point, is it possible that DBC finally worked his way back to Tena Bar in June 1972--coincidentally one of only two high-water events between 1971 and 1980--and retrieved the majority of the ransom, however, mistakenly left three bundles behind? Could the bundles have been exposed to the Columbia during the retrieval process? I don't know.

Cheers!
Tom’s paper explains why the money soaked in the Columbia would have more and different diatoms than money buried immediately in the sand without direct contact with water.

Also, for Cooper to have retrieved the money in June would require him to soak the money in the water of the Columbia for an extended period of time prior - weeks, perhaps months. That means he buried the money, then stuck at least $6000 grand in the Columbia, then buried again. Then dug it up. How does that make any sense?

Havent had free time to read Kaye's article and think it through, but the little I have scanned it he's saying there is a full season of diatoms of several species on 77's bill? Correct me if Im wrong!  ;)   Diatoms are a surface phenomenon and inhabit a rather shallow depth range down to x-feet where oxygen and nutrients are available.

The one thing I did note was a chemistry chart - different sodium levels in one species ... a seasonal trait change for that species confirming a full growth season of that species? I also want to scan Tom's list of credits to see who he consulted with.

It's just interesting 77's bill yields diatoms easily whereas the prior 3 bills Tom examined yielded nothing? Maybe 77's bill was a top bill vs bills deeper in the pile?   77's bill did come from the Ingram awarded bills didn't it?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 12:32:17 AM by georger »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4872 on: August 04, 2020, 01:50:30 AM »
wow. What Ive read of Tom's report, I like. And I like his more conservative approach. No wild theories. I like the new direction Tom has set. I like his credits. Obviously Tom has done his research! This may mark a new beginning away from the tired old obsessions that have ruled Cooper discussion in the past. Tom sets the stage for that in his last paragraph:

"This is the first analysis using a diatom methodology of seasonal variation in population and species mix to time constrain a forensic event. The seasonal blooms of diatoms occur widely in water bodies all over the world but fortuitously the Columbia River has been well studied and these blooms seasonally documented. The elemental analysis shown here suggests that seasonal elemental differences might be particularly beneficial if found to hold true across different water bodies. The combination of species mix, abundance and trace elements holds the promise of diatoms as a statistically significant tool in constraining seasonal timelines involving water bodies."

I like that very much! Kudos to Tom and the Team!   :congrats:

Tom also makes an important new concession-association, linking the dredging of 1974 with the Ingram find location for the first time! I hope Tom is serious when he says early under /Discussion/:

" The Cooper bundles were found just beneath the sand surface ~15 m up from the waterline. A sand slope angle of 10∘ was measured during a site investigation which would place the burial site ~3 m vertically above the water line. This location would only be immersed during times of high water and wave action. Dredging operations took place on the river and the sand was dumped slightly upstream of the burial location and could have contributed to additional sand on top of the bills. Sand is no longer deposited on the beach and it has undergone severe erosion. "

Thank you Tom for acknowledging that!

Kudos to Tom for this work!  :bravo:
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 01:54:17 AM by georger »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4873 on: August 04, 2020, 02:38:44 AM »
I think the reference is just the sand and nothing with the sand...he states in the report having no idea how the money got there and said the same to me on the phone today...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 02:39:11 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #4874 on: August 04, 2020, 04:01:15 AM »
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I think the reference is just the sand and nothing with the sand...he states in the report having no idea how the money got there and said the same to me on the phone today...

He means 'sand moves with water flow'.  The water pressure is south to north there. When the tide rises the flow (water pressure) is south to north. The Columbia moves south to north as it goes by Tina Bar... hydrologists say it is not uncommon for sands to be moved hundreds/thousands of feet at that location; south to north.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 04:45:46 AM by georger »