Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 648235 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1575 on: February 26, 2018, 08:40:45 PM »
I concur, Lynn. Just for fun I'm gonna write a Suspects Update with concomitant sleuths supporting. I'll post it on the Suspects page.
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1576 on: February 26, 2018, 08:43:13 PM »
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I concur, Lynn. Just for fun I'm gonna write a Suspects Update with concomitant sleuths supporting. I'll post it on the Suspects page.
Ooh, let me know when, I'm outta popcorn at the mo...;)

P.S. I am BEGGING you all to stop talking about KC for a while. There's nothing new, nobody who can read believes he's DBC, end of. But every time he comes up here, that guy starts frothing at the mouth over at TMN and it's sending TMN into my junk mail because I don't read the responses or I'll also have to hear how it's all to do with Jon Benet Ramsay or something, yet I don't want TMN updates going to junk mail in case Bruce posts new stuff.

Alternately, could we find an equally ridiculous suspect to shoot down for a while? Me, for instance. I was 3, pudgy, unemployed and short. So far, age, weight, job and height appear to be ignorable issues, so there is no reason to believe I am not DB Cooper. Have at.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 09:05:46 PM by Lynn »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1577 on: February 26, 2018, 09:57:51 PM »
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"missed out on the deal"

Not at all..the producers and others know exactly how to get a hold of someone..he first stated 15 grand, then it was "up to 15 grand" if not mistaken, Bruce finally took him up on the offer only to have a flood of rules following the offer..I don't have any other words other than, he's full of shit..

I have dealt with producers just as others have..they have asked me to contact someone and if I couldn't, guess what, they found them..they all have research teams. 4 of the producers from The Learning channel are members here, so are producers from Atlas production..CBS, radio personalities are members here, as well as people from Homeland security..yep, they check out Cooper while working  C:-) colleges are members here, all sorts of people..

Robert is a very odd person..I've never had to deal with someone like him before..he will blast me for all sorts of things and turn right around and do the exact thing he claims to be against..even members (when he had them) complained..he held his own forum hostage trying to get me to lift the ban on him...when I would post on You Tube, he would reply soon after..I blocked his email, and he finds an opening through our website to contact me..I sent him an email showing the 302 where they checked the employee's to make sure he seen it..I got blasted for that since he was blocked, I told him he can block me when ever he wishes, but there was a reason I did it..when I was dealing with the producers I never said anything bad about him..he was brought up, but considered not relevant...Robert, will be the little school boy and tell them we are "bad people" and praise how he "warned them about us" all of this for going against his evidence, and catching him in some lies..almost 5 years dealing with him...

Anyone who would pay "RobertMBlevins" a single cent for any kind of rights to the KC book should be wearing a straight jacket and locked in a padded room.

Further, my exchanges with Blevins and Jo Weber are preserved for history on the DropZone web site in the original language, profanity included.  Those two and I probably exchanged at least a thousand posts on DZ.

Robert99

P.S., For the record, I was certified as being "sane enough" :) a number of decades ago as a prerequisite to being allowed to participate in a certain research program. :-X
There's probably a Master's Thesis in Communications about the Phenomenology of D.B. Cooper Obsession waiting to be written, especially re: those who are 100% sold on a particular suspect. It's long been obvious KC wasn't Cooper, ditto Weber (and yes, IMHO, Rackstraw).  I see a few people on various comment threads and forums, including the comment section at TMN, developing their own new suspects now, which is awesome, but I do worry they'll get so hung up on one suspect that even if they're disproven, confirmation bias will park them permanently on a dead-end street. I think that is THE caveat before you go down this rabbit-hole.

I'm just the opposite Lynn. I get behind no suspect. I'd love to see the case solved, and I'd love to have that suspect that I think was the guy, but I'm still waiting for that smoking gun!
 
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Offline Darren

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1578 on: March 02, 2018, 11:41:37 AM »
Is it possible that some of the money was spent? It's my understanding that all the FBI had was a list of serial numbers, which in the early 70's banks would have had to cross reference each twenty by hand. I'd like to think that DBC was able to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1579 on: March 02, 2018, 01:10:36 PM »
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Is it possible that some of the money was spent? It's my understanding that all the FBI had was a list of serial numbers, which in the early 70's banks would have had to cross reference each twenty by hand. I'd like to think that DBC was able to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

With the list of bill serial numbers set up properly, a bank teller could check out any twenty dollar bill she received that could have come from Cooper's loot in a matter of five seconds or so.  The bills in the bank's stash for such emergencies were not as random as you may believe.  This has already been discussed at great length on this site and at DropZone.

Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. 
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1580 on: March 02, 2018, 01:58:48 PM »
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Is it possible that some of the money was spent? It's my understanding that all the FBI had was a list of serial numbers, which in the early 70's banks would have had to cross reference each twenty by hand. I'd like to think that DBC was able to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

With the list of bill serial numbers set up properly, a bank teller could check out any twenty dollar bill she received that could have come from Cooper's loot in a matter of five seconds or so.  The bills in the bank's stash for such emergencies were not as random as you may believe.  This has already been discussed at great length on this site and at DropZone.

Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't.
It might only take 5 seconds, but then you'd have to assume that every teller at every bank in the world was that diligent over every US $20 for many years. I don't just doubt that, I'm quite certain it didn't happen outside the PNW for more than a year and inside it for more than 5, and that's at best. That cash would have been fully spendable within a year, two max, and if in circulation would have deteriorated, as most bills do, within 3.5-5 years give or take.  A retired cop here basically says the serial numbers are only useful if you catch a suspect with a wad of the loot, not if s/he spends one bill even days afterwards. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The money find at Tena Bar, after a long review of the thread, proves nothing about the fate of Cooper himself and has generated far more questions than it has answered. Given the way the money was attached, he could have lost all or part of the money and still survived the jump. The condition of the money was also not consistent with the money having come out of the water.

My own first impulse was to say Cooper died, but the more I read, the less convinced I am that that is so. Looking at the maps of the area where they thought he jumped, in fact, the terrain looks a lot less daunting than I would have anticipated. Wouldn't say for sure Cooper survived, but given that copycats later survived similar jumps (despite being caught), I wouldn't lay any money on his death.
 
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Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1581 on: March 02, 2018, 02:01:08 PM »
R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.

On optimistic days I think Cooper survived the jump but lost at least some of the money during the descent. On other days, I think he died and the body was underwater.

If he died, however, someone was suddenly missing. A car went abandoned. A renter stopped paying. A mortgage went into default. Utility bills stacked up unpaid. A friend or relative disappeared. Those things should have been noticed and tied to a possible suspect who looked even a little bit like the sketches.

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« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:02:23 PM by 377 »
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1582 on: March 02, 2018, 02:10:19 PM »
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Is it possible that some of the money was spent? It's my understanding that all the FBI had was a list of serial numbers, which in the early 70's banks would have had to cross reference each twenty by hand. I'd like to think that DBC was able to enjoy the fruits of his labor.

YES, it is POSSIBLE.

Everything after that is speculation.

Fact, he either died in the jump or survived. Both theories are viable.
TBAR bills were the only ones found that matched the FBI list. The bill list created by the Bank prior to the hijacking and curated by the FBI had an error but that is another topic. The original Bank Recordak (Micro) is missing so no way to check.
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1583 on: March 02, 2018, 02:17:24 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 02:18:44 PM by Lynn »
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1584 on: March 02, 2018, 02:44:08 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).

You cannot stuff 10,000 $20 bills in a reserve chest pack.  Everything being discussed here has already been discussed at great lengths both on this thread and Dropzone.  So the answers to most of your questions are already on these sites.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1585 on: March 02, 2018, 03:17:58 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).

You cannot stuff 10,000 $20 bills in a reserve chest pack.  Everything being discussed here has already been discussed at great lengths both on this thread and Dropzone.  So the answers to most of your questions are already on these sites.

The fact that ANY money was found outside its container, after Coop bailed, carries a strong chance ALL of his money was compromised somehow. The container was breached for any money to leave the container. The money did not come to Tina Bar because of Quackery.

Unless like distributing leaflets from a plane during Vietnam, Cooper stood on the stairs and distributed money to the population of Washington to send some message?  ;)

The finding of money almost assures a breached container, and the question is 'when'? That could have been determined through tests which were never done. Palmer was either ignorant or asleep in his chair. 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:49:58 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1586 on: March 02, 2018, 04:55:52 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).

You cannot stuff 10,000 $20 bills in a reserve chest pack.  Everything being discussed here has already been discussed at great lengths both on this thread and Dropzone.  So the answers to most of your questions are already on these sites.

The fact that ANY money was found outside its container, after Coop bailed, carries a strong chance ALL of his money was compromised somehow. The container was breached for any money to leave the container. The money did not come to Tina Bar because of Quackery.

Unless like distributing leaflets from a plane during Vietnam, Cooper stood on the stairs and distributed money to the population of Washington to send some message?  ;)

The finding of money almost assures a breached container, and the question is 'when'? That could have been determined through tests which were never done. Palmer was either ignorant or asleep in his chair.

An excellent way to have a breached container is to do a no-pull belly flop on the bank bag at about 180 MPH.  Trust me, there will be a serious hydraulic rupture of the bag under those conditions.
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1587 on: March 02, 2018, 05:07:20 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).
The question wasn't whether he could stuff the money into a reserve chest pack - obviously not, it's too much money. The questions were whether (a) anything could be put into the reserve pack (a fraction of the money, any kind of communications device from the era, anything) and (b) whether the pack could have passed for a knapsack to untrained eyes. Neither answer would tell us if DB used it for that purpose; I just want to know if it is possible to put anything in there. Again, the question of how much he could discard without notice and how much he had to take with him is important.

I did not join this forum so that I could be constantly redirected to DZ. It's impossible to follow any thread on there due to the sheer lack of respect many of the commentators showed each other and the incessant bickering. Moreover, a lot of what was on DZ was posted before the FBI docs were available. From what I DID see on the DZ, though, and from what I've seen here, these questions are very far from settled. There are just as many people stating without solid proof that DB died as there are those swearing their fortunes on DB having been one suspect or another. Both sides are guilty of confirmation bias at every turn, so I am not about to make any conclusive statements about DBC based on anyone's "gut instinct" or because it was discussed (but not solved) on another labyrinthine site that essentially dissolved into a Tower of Babel. 

You cannot stuff 10,000 $20 bills in a reserve chest pack.  Everything being discussed here has already been discussed at great lengths both on this thread and Dropzone.  So the answers to most of your questions are already on these sites.
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1588 on: March 02, 2018, 05:52:59 PM »
Georger wrote: "The fact that ANY money was found outside its container, after Coop bailed, carries a strong chance ALL of his money was compromised somehow."

You have a point Georger.  If something was violent or forceful enough to cause some of the bills to escape, what would prevent the rest from following? I don't think he had isolated cargo compartments.

And R 99 is right, impact at terminal velocity would breach most loaded carry bags.

Ah that damn T Bar money. It just messes up so many otherwise plausible DBC theories.

377
 

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1589 on: March 02, 2018, 05:54:02 PM »
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R99 wrote: "Finally, in reality there is no reason to believe that Cooper survived the jump and the bundles of bills found at Tina Bar strongly suggest that he didn't. "

I go around and around about whether the bills and chards found at T Bar mean Cooper died in the jump. The jump was risky but definitely survivable. Crooks almost never throw money away and the buried shard field rules out a plant IMO.


Planting money to find and burying it briefly are two different things. Cooper didn't get his knapsack, so his ground getaway was now hindered by a big bag of money. You'd look suspicious hiking or walking into a strange town carrying a big bag of money. The briefcase emptied could have held a fraction of it, but not the full 200,000. So if he didn't have accomplices or a getaway vehicle stowed somewhere - and I honestly don't know how he could have connected with either from a random DZ unless that second sack had a radio, (and in that case he still would have had to get it to the ground with all that other stuff without damaging it) he might have had to briefly hide much of the money.

Quick question: could a dummy chest pack be forced to hold another object of any size? Or is it so tightly packed that you couldn't get a toothpick in there? Could it double as a knapsack to prying eyes? (I'm still shaving at how much he could have discarded without notice and how much he had to have been carrying on/attached to his person, both on leaving the plane and, if he survived, during his ground getaway).

You cannot stuff 10,000 $20 bills in a reserve chest pack.  Everything being discussed here has already been discussed at great lengths both on this thread and Dropzone.  So the answers to most of your questions are already on these sites.

The fact that ANY money was found outside its container, after Coop bailed, carries a strong chance ALL of his money was compromised somehow. The container was breached for any money to leave the container. The money did not come to Tina Bar because of Quackery.

Unless like distributing leaflets from a plane during Vietnam, Cooper stood on the stairs and distributed money to the population of Washington to send some message?  ;)

The finding of money almost assures a breached container, and the question is 'when'? That could have been determined through tests which were never done. Palmer was either ignorant or asleep in his chair.

An excellent way to have a breached container is to do a no-pull belly flop on the bank bag at about 180 MPH.  Trust me, there will be a serious hydraulic rupture of the bag under those conditions.

However the money was free of a container, when did money arrive at Tina Bar? The year? Tests have always been available thar could (help) determine that. Palmer chose to do no testing. Instead, he opted to rely on his experience in judging strata, but that only lead to a conundrum and arguments with FBI agents, about '1 year', '2 years', 'well maybe several years', ... which as Lynn noted we knew clear back in 2007 at DZ.

99% of our time has been spent in waiting and reading people's assertions and theories. And now Brucie wants to know everyone's age!   
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 05:54:37 PM by georger »
 
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