Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 643606 times)

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1290 on: October 27, 2017, 03:04:38 AM »
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...I have viewed every video containing Tina I could find. Most 'moments' where Tina appears are brief and I can find no video or any other document where Tina " gives a detailed and compelling report on her view of the skyjacking and its impact on herself, the crew, and her passengers."   Those are your words! It's hyperbolae on your part is all it is!

The only time I can find where Tina makes any personal expression is in her original television interview after the plane landed at Reno. Tina speaks in behalf of herself and the crew. Looking over at Rataczak she says, quote: "We had a horrifying time". Rataczak nods to confirm it. Here's the url, Smith.   

 

The Reichenbach video listed above is a compellation of several videos about Tina. The one video that I think is most important - and from which a short clip is taken - is where she is sitting on a couch, in uniform, and talking comfortably in front of the camera, from CBS TV I believe. The original video of this segment was about three-four minutes long. Some of my characterizations of Tina can be observed in the Reichenbach video, albeit briefly.

Should I have included a link to that full video in my reportage at the Mountain News? Yup. That is a failing on my part.

But, to characterize my description of Tina's presentation as hyperbole is incorrect and provocative. At worst my words are incomplete without the link to the video to give fuller corroboration.

Your statements suggest that you are angry at me and have an agenda here that is not being satisfied. Wassup, Georger? What are you trying to discern about Tina? Or me?

BTW: The Reichenbach video was produced in part by Robert Blevins. We should be aware of all the alliances that are forming, or have been formed, in Cooper World.

Nobody seems to be able to find the video you mention. Who produced the video is of no consequence. Its the content of the video I want to see and hear. A long interview of Tina on a couch where she goes into detail about her feelings and psychological state during and after the hijacking ....   :-\

My statements suggest that I am angry with you? No, just puzzled, perplexed. You are projecting again. Maybe you are projecting about Tina too.  :)  Everything is personal to you and maybe that's the problemo?


And Bruce wonders why he has a credibility problem.  Wonder no more.  That's what we've been trying to tell ya, Brucie.

The video was perhaps taken down, and never quite the decisive proof Bruce thought (or hoped) it was. And I dont say this as a criticism.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1291 on: October 27, 2017, 03:18:42 AM »
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I can't find the video that I watched about five-eight years ago, either. What can I say?

OK lets bypass that.

Have you got a detailed timeline for Tina's life from the hijacking until she got out of the convent (1979?), if thats the correct date? For example I know she did new interview with the FBI in late 1971 (Dec 1/2) ... those crew interviews were in the Gray file release as I recall it ... which should be in the vault here?

The reason for mine above is I never have tried to build a timeline vita for Tina, and I now have new FBI docs which talk about Tina being willing (and wanting) to give a new in-depth interview in late 1971. That may be the last Mucklow interview Tina gave ?

And, for that matter do you have vitas for all the crew members?   

Here's the timeline I have for Tina:

1. December 5 (?), 1971. Second interview with FBI agents in Philly. She specifically says that Cooper asked for 200,000 in "cash."

2. 1971- 1973, circa. Continues to fly for NWO and even rooms with Flo with regularly. Basically, she resumes her pre-hijacking life.

3. 1973-1974, circa. Meets her husband at NWO. Name withheld upon request.

4. 1974-1975, circa. Marries her husband and they move to the Bay Area. It is my understanding that she stopped working for NWO at this time, or worked only intermittently.

5. 1975-1976, circa. Marriage ends and Tina moves to San Diego with Jane and Lee Dormuth. In the 2005-2010 period Galen conducted an extensive interview with Tina's now ex-husband, who made it clear he does not want to talk with any media.

6. 1976-1978, circa. No information.

7. 1978-1979, circa. Tina hospitalized at the Lutheran Hospital and Home in Gresham, Oregon. The stay is lengthy, months, possibly a year. The facility is now known as the  Good Samaritan Society.

8. Spring, 1979, Tina is taken by Lee and Jane to the Carmel of Maria monastery in Green Hills, Oregon, just outside of Eugene.

9. Tina stays at the monastery, actually a cloistered convent for women, until 1991, circa.

10. 1985, circa. Interview with Richard Tosaw in the convent.

11. 1990, circa, phone interview with Russ Calame.

12.  1991-1992, Tina rumored to stay in the Eugene, OR area and attends college.

13. Mid-1990s, begins working as an activity therapist in a psych facility, where she continued to work until 2011 by my knowledge. I do not know if she continues to work there.

14. 2014, circa, moves from her long-time home in Springfield, OR, where I spoke with her briefly in 2011, to a new residence in central Oregon.

15. 2012, Participated in an interview with Paul Neveel, a freelance journalist and professional photographer working for the Eugene Weekly. In the interview Tina refuted almost this entire timeline. In the interview she claims to have flown regularly for NWO throughout the 1970s until her retirement ten years after the hijacking, presumably 1981, and during that time she mostly flew NWO routes to the Orient. Then she went into the convent for personal reasons, leaving in the early 1990s.

Neveel told me that one of her stipulations to doing the interview was to not ask about DB Cooper at all. Also, no mention of her hospitalization was made at all by either party.

Interesting tidbit: When Tina lived in Springfield her home was near the Willamette River. Directly across the river - on a thoroughfare known as "River Road" just north of Tina - resided LD Cooper in the last years of his life. Hence, LD Cooper died just a few miles away from Tina.

Most of the timelines mentioned here I learned from Galen, and bits and pieces of it were corroborated by the folks in Tina's orbit that I spoke with, such as the Mother Superior at the convent - Sister Saint-Onge - cousin Arlene Mucklow in Philly, Jane and Lee Dormuth, the folks associated with the Lankenau School for Girls in Philly where Jane and Tina went to high school, Bill Rataczak, and the HR staff at the Good Samaritan Society.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:39:55 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1292 on: October 27, 2017, 03:29:33 AM »
My vita for the crew are not nearly as extensive as those provided by others here and at the DZ.

But here is what I know:

1. Alice Hancock married a NWO pilot. They lived for many years in the Minneapolis, MN area. She was still there up until the time I spoke with her in 2014. She and her husband are now divorced. I don't know how long Alice worked for NWO. She hung up the phone on me when I called.

2. Flo married a cop named Wheeler and lives in South Carolina. The exact city is being withheld to protect her privacy. I don't know how long she continued to work for NWO. She refuses all communication with everyone I know who has attempted to contact her, including Jo Weber, Galen, and other writers.

3. Bill Rataczak, Scotty, and Andy Anderson all went on to become NWO 747 captains and have distinguished careers. Scotty died in the 1990s of cancer. Bill Rataczak has communicated with many journalists, but not with me since 2009. I understand from Ralph Himmelsbach, with whom he is good friends, that BR is in failing health. But he looked pretty good in the HC docu. Andy Anderson moved to Hawaii upon retirement, and all communications with him there have failed.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:30:59 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1293 on: October 27, 2017, 01:15:20 PM »
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My vita for the crew are not nearly as extensive as those provided by others here and at the DZ.

But here is what I know:

1. Alice Hancock married a NWO pilot. They lived for many years in the Minneapolis, MN area. She was still there up until the time I spoke with her in 2014. She and her husband are now divorced. I don't know how long Alice worked for NWO. She hung up the phone on me when I called.

2. Flo married a cop named Wheeler and lives in South Carolina. The exact city is being withheld to protect her privacy. I don't know how long she continued to work for NWO. She refuses all communication with everyone I know who has attempted to contact her, including Jo Weber, Galen, and other writers.

3. Bill Rataczak, Scotty, and Andy Anderson all went on to become NWO 747 captains and have distinguished careers. Scotty died in the 1990s of cancer. Bill Rataczak has communicated with many journalists, but not with me since 2009. I understand from Ralph Himmelsbach, with whom he is good friends, that BR is in failing health. But he looked pretty good in the HC docu. Andy Anderson moved to Hawaii upon retirement, and all communications with him there have failed.

I understand that Captain Scott died about 2005 while living in the Tucson area.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1294 on: October 27, 2017, 02:52:24 PM »
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My vita for the crew are not nearly as extensive as those provided by others here and at the DZ.

But here is what I know:

1. Alice Hancock married a NWO pilot. They lived for many years in the Minneapolis, MN area. She was still there up until the time I spoke with her in 2014. She and her husband are now divorced. I don't know how long Alice worked for NWO. She hung up the phone on me when I called.

2. Flo married a cop named Wheeler and lives in South Carolina. The exact city is being withheld to protect her privacy. I don't know how long she continued to work for NWO. She refuses all communication with everyone I know who has attempted to contact her, including Jo Weber, Galen, and other writers.

3. Bill Rataczak, Scotty, and Andy Anderson all went on to become NWO 747 captains and have distinguished careers. Scotty died in the 1990s of cancer. Bill Rataczak has communicated with many journalists, but not with me since 2009. I understand from Ralph Himmelsbach, with whom he is good friends, that BR is in failing health. But he looked pretty good in the HC docu. Andy Anderson moved to Hawaii upon retirement, and all communications with him there have failed.

I understand that Captain Scott died about 2005 while living in the Tucson area.
Captain Scott died on March 14, 2001
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1295 on: October 27, 2017, 06:17:08 PM »
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I can't find the video that I watched about five-eight years ago, either. What can I say?

OK lets bypass that.

Have you got a detailed timeline for Tina's life from the hijacking until she got out of the convent (1979?), if thats the correct date? For example I know she did new interview with the FBI in late 1971 (Dec 1/2) ... those crew interviews were in the Gray file release as I recall it ... which should be in the vault here?

The reason for mine above is I never have tried to build a timeline vita for Tina, and I now have new FBI docs which talk about Tina being willing (and wanting) to give a new in-depth interview in late 1971. That may be the last Mucklow interview Tina gave ?

And, for that matter do you have vitas for all the crew members?   

Here's the timeline I have for Tina:

1. December 5 (?), 1971. Second interview with FBI agents in Philly. She specifically says that Cooper asked for 200,000 in "cash."

2. 1971- 1973, circa. Continues to fly for NWO and even rooms with Flo with regularly. Basically, she resumes her pre-hijacking life.

3. 1973-1974, circa. Meets her husband at NWO. Name withheld upon request.

4. 1974-1975, circa. Marries her husband and they move to the Bay Area. It is my understanding that she stopped working for NWO at this time, or worked only intermittently.

5. 1975-1976, circa. Marriage ends and Tina moves to San Diego with Jane and Lee Dormuth. In the 2005-2010 period Galen conducted an extensive interview with Tina's now ex-husband, who made it clear he does not want to talk with any media.

6. 1976-1978, circa. No information.

7. 1978-1979, circa. Tina hospitalized at the Lutheran Hospital and Home in Gresham, Oregon. The stay is lengthy, months, possibly a year. The facility is now known as the  Good Samaritan Society.

8. Spring, 1979, Tina is taken by Lee and Jane to the Carmel of Maria monastery in Green Hills, Oregon, just outside of Eugene.

9. Tina stays at the monastery, actually a cloistered convent for women, until 1991, circa.

10. 1985, circa. Interview with Richard Tosaw in the convent.

11. 1990, circa, phone interview with Russ Calame.

12.  1991-1992, Tina rumored to stay in the Eugene, OR area and attends college.

13. Mid-1990s, begins working as an activity therapist in a psych facility, where she continued to work until 2011 by my knowledge. I do not know if she continues to work there.

14. 2014, circa, moves from her long-time home in Springfield, OR, where I spoke with her briefly in 2011, to a new residence in central Oregon.

15. 2012, Participated in an interview with Paul Neveel, a freelance journalist and professional photographer working for the Eugene Weekly. In the interview Tina refuted almost this entire timeline. In the interview she claims to have flown regularly for NWO throughout the 1970s until her retirement ten years after the hijacking, presumably 1981, and during that time she mostly flew NWO routes to the Orient. Then she went into the convent for personal reasons, leaving in the early 1990s.

Neveel told me that one of her stipulations to doing the interview was to not ask about DB Cooper at all. Also, no mention of her hospitalization was made at all by either party.

Interesting tidbit: When Tina lived in Springfield her home was near the Willamette River. Directly across the river - on a thoroughfare known as "River Road" just north of Tina - resided LD Cooper in the last years of his life. Hence, LD Cooper died just a few miles away from Tina.

Most of the timelines mentioned here I learned from Galen, and bits and pieces of it were corroborated by the folks in Tina's orbit that I spoke with, such as the Mother Superior at the convent - Sister Saint-Onge - cousin Arlene Mucklow in Philly, Jane and Lee Dormuth, the folks associated with the Lankenau School for Girls in Philly where Jane and Tina went to high school, Bill Rataczak, and the HR staff at the Good Samaritan Society.

The two dates I have for Tina's long FBI interviews are: Interview 11-30 Mucklow at Minneapolis, and 12/1-2 in PA:

There are docs in the new files making arrangements for both interviews, then confirming both interviews happened. During all of this time well into 1972 Tina and other crew members are being called and asked about particular hijacking points, and being shown photos of suspects. There are memos in these files saying things like: 'talked to stew, will be in MN on Sunday ___________ and will meet to look at photos, etc.' Or, 'forwarded photo to stew at ___________ and she says it's not him'.  That goes on all through 1972. The crew members stayed active in the case for some years. That includes Anderson, by the way...

The same can be said about several of the passengers, especially Gregory. A number of the passengers were  re-interviewed several times and remained available for a long time answering questions, rethinking previous questions, etc. People cooperated fully. Multiple FBI offices were involved in information sharing through all of this.

 
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 06:27:41 PM by georger »
 
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1296 on: October 28, 2017, 02:11:02 PM »
American Psychological Association:  APA Help Center Advisory

Re- Hostage and Kidnap Survivor Psychology: Post Event Synopsis.

Freedom almost always brings a sense of elation and relief. However, adjusting back to the real world after being held hostage can be just as difficult as abruptly leaving it. Upon release, many hostage survivors are faced with transitioning from conditions of isolation and helplessness to sensory overload and freedom. This transition often results in significant adjustment difficulties.

Hostage and kidnap survivors can experience stress reactions. Typical reactions occur in:

•   Thinking: Intrusive thoughts, denial, impaired memory, decreased concentration, being overcautious and aware, confusion or fear of the event happening again.
•   Emotions: Shock, numbness, anxiety, guilt, depression, anger and a sense of helplessness.
•   Interactions: Withdrawal and avoidance of family, friends, activities and being on edge.

Such reactions to an extremely stressful event are understandable and normal. These are typical responses and generally decrease after a period of time. It is common for people's reactions to vary from one individual to another.

According to research, hostage survivors often develop an unconscious bond to their captors and experience grief if their captors are harmed. They may also feel guilty for developing a bond. This is typically referred to as the Stockholm syndrome. Hostage survivors may also have feelings of guilt for surviving while others did not. It is important for survivors to recognize that these are usual human reactions to being held captive.

When hostages are released, it is essential for them to:

•   Receive medical attention.
•   Be in a safe and secure environment.
•   Connect with loved ones.
•   Have an opportunity to talk or journal their experience if and when they choose.
•   Receive resources and information about how to seek counseling, particularly if their distress from the incident is interfering with their daily lives.
•   Protect their privacy (e.g. avoid media overexposure including watching and listening to news and participating in media interviews).
•   Take time to adjust back into family and work.
Family and friends can support survivors by listening, being patient and focusing on their freedom instead of engaging in negative talk about the captors.

It is important to realize that families and friends of hostages are confronted with numerous issues in coping with fears and uncertainties as well and may also need support in dealing with their own emotional reactions.

Recovery and the future:

Released hostages need time to recover from the physical, mental and emotional difficulties they faced. However, it is important to keep in mind that human beings are highly resilient and can persevere in spite of tragedy. Research shows that positive growth and resilience can occur following trauma.

Hostage survivors may feel lost or have difficulty managing intense reactions and may need help adjusting to their old life following release. If there are chronic indications of stress, continued feelings of numbness, disturbed sleep, as well as other signs, the hostage survivor might want to consider seeking help from a licensed mental health professional, such as a psychologist, who can help develop an appropriate strategy for moving forward. To find a psychologist in your area, visit APA's Psychologist Locator.

*Thanks to psychologists Raymond Hanbury, PhD, ABPP, and David Romano, PhD, for their assistance with this article. July 2013

Resources

•   Bonanno, G., Papa, A., & O'Neill, K. (2001) Loss and Human Resilience. Applied and Preventive Psychology, 10, 193-206.
•   Speckhard, A., Tabrina, N., Krasnov, V., & Mufel, N. (2005) "Stockholm Effects and Psychological Responses to Captivity in Hostages Held by Suicidal Terrorists" in S. Wessely & V. Krasnov eds. Psychological Responses to the new Terrorism: A NATO Russia Dialogue, IOS Press. pg. 29.
•   Wessely, S. (2005) Victimhood and Resilience. New England Journal of Medicine, 353, 548-550.
The full text of articles from APA Help Center may be reproduced and distributed for noncommercial purposes with credit given to the American Psychological Association. Any electronic reproductions must link to the original article on the APA Help Center. Any exceptions to this, including excerpting, paraphrasing or reproduction in a commercial work, must be presented in writing to the APA. Images from the APA Help Center may not be reproduced.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 02:12:47 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1297 on: October 28, 2017, 02:52:43 PM »
Psychological questions about the Cooper Hijacking:

1. What training had the crew on flight 305 had in the event of a hijacking, prior to 11-24-71? Had NWO provided any training?

2. Who of the crew had prior active military training?

3. Was any recovery and evaluation plan for the crew instituted following 11-24-71?

4. What does Cooper's M.O. *modus operandum on board flight 305 say about his psychology and background?
 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 11:09:32 PM by georger »
 
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1298 on: October 28, 2017, 03:43:47 PM »
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Psychological questions about the Cooper Hijacking:

1. What training had the crew on flight 305 had in the event of a hijacking had, prior to 11-24-71? Had NWO provided any training?

2. Who of the crew had prior active military training?

3. Was any recovery and evaluation plan for the crew instituted following 11-24-71?

4. What does Cooper's M.O. *modus operandum on board flight 305 say about his psychology and background?
 

1.  It is unlikely that the flight crew had any "training" other than being told to comply with the hijacker's demands and to keep him calm if at all possible.  Until Cooper was airborne again with the parachutes, his fate and that of everyone else on board was connected until he released the passengers.

And remember that the FAA Chief Psychologist had informed the flight crew that Cooper would probably blow up the aircraft when he jumped.  I'm sure that the flight crew appreciated the information.

2.  Scott served as a pilot in the US Army Air Corps during World War Two.

Rataczak served in the USAF as a pilot prior to joining NWA as a pilot, and his father was reportedly a long time employee of NWA (mechanic?), this according to information related to a speech Rataczak made a few years ago at a NWA employee's function in Minneapolis.

Anderson was also probably a USAF trained pilot, but there is no written confirmation of this to my knowledge.  It should be noted that while Anderson had three stripes, which means he was a rated co-pilot on some NWA aircraft (probably the 727), he was serving as the flight engineer on the hijacked aircraft.

Anderson probably obtained the flight engineer rating at his own expense after leaving the military (assuming he was ex-USAF), and through a commercial training program such as United Airlines used to operate in Denver.  In the late 1960 time frame, it was common for pilots with a commercial pilot's license and instrument rating to attend these short courses to obtain the flight engineer rating and then join airlines as flight engineers before advancing into the co-pilot position.  It was a standard way to get into commercial jet aviation.

3.  The 727 cockpit crew already had an emergency means to evacuate the cockpit during the hijacking without going into the cabin.  It consisted of a rope that was attached to the ceiling of the cockpit and would be thrown out one of the side windows.  The cockpit crew members would slide down that rope.  They discussed doing so during the time on the ground in Seattle, but didn't want to leave anyone behind in the cabin with Cooper.  The right opportunity did not present itself for everyone to get away from Cooper, so the flight crew stayed put.

4.  In my opinion, his M.O. means that he had general knowledge of the 727 aircraft and some closely held information on the fact that the aft stairs could be lowered in flight.  Nevertheless, Cooper did not know how to lower the aft stairs, and had trouble doing so even after Tina gave him instructions on how to do it.

Overall, Cooper seemed to be impulsive and did not do serious or detailed planning for the hijacking.  This suggests to me that Cooper may have decided to do the hijacking only a few days prior to doing so.  This would also suggest that Cooper had information on the 727 available to him prior to deciding to do the hijacking.  Whatever triggered his actions was probably related to work or a domestic situation.

The fact that Cooper routinely carried a pocket knife suggests that he was something of an "outdoorsman" (hiker, hunter, fisherman, etc.).     
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1299 on: October 28, 2017, 04:35:44 PM »
I have long thought that one of the under-reported stories of this time is the experience and aftermath of all the flight attendants who were skyjacked. There must be thousands of them - 300 hundred hijackings in just the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Further, it seems that the FAs had the vast majority of contact with the hijackers. Only on rare occasions did cockpit crew enter the cabin to deal with a skyjacker, such as with Paul Cini in early November 1971.

I bet Alice Hancock would have a lot to say on the subject.

Ron and Pat Forman know a few NWO FAs from this period. I'll send this line of questioning on to them for comment.
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1300 on: November 02, 2017, 10:26:45 PM »
Howdy, everybody.

I've been looking at the Cooper case as something so flawed that must be taken back to formula, so to speak, so please excuse some of the basic questions I tend to post at times. One of the things that stands out is that none of the sources that I have found have actually detailed the FBI search of the plane. I have read many times that agents found the tie, magazines, drink glass, et cetera, and that they "searched the plane" for Cooper.

Has anybody here read a full description or checklist of places onboard the plane where they searched for people or explosives? For example: "We entered through the rear stairs, cleared the lavatories, then the cabin row-by-row, proceeded on to the cargo areas..."  All I get is vague statements, like, "The FBI searched the plane and Cooper was gone." Geoffrey Gray's documents touch on it a little bit, mentioning compartments where he doubtfully could have hidden, but has anyone seen anything more complete?
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1301 on: November 02, 2017, 11:18:23 PM »
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Howdy, everybody.

I've been looking at the Cooper case as something so flawed that must be taken back to formula, so to speak, so please excuse some of the basic questions I tend to post at times. One of the things that stands out is that none of the sources that I have found have actually detailed the FBI search of the plane. I have read many times that agents found the tie, magazines, drink glass, et cetera, and that they "searched the plane" for Cooper.

Has anybody here read a full description or checklist of places onboard the plane where they searched for people or explosives? For example: "We entered through the rear stairs, cleared the lavatories, then the cabin row-by-row, proceeded on to the cargo areas..."  All I get is vague statements, like, "The FBI searched the plane and Cooper was gone." Geoffrey Gray's documents touch on it a little bit, mentioning compartments where he doubtfully could have hidden, but has anyone seen anything more complete?

Thats about it - you're right. Few detailed docs available on this or people would have said more. There were exchanges with Boeing and NWA about where to look - so panels in the back area were removed to see if Cooper was hiding in these recess areas or had been in that area. Results were negative. I believe the toilets were drained and contents examined also. 

FBI docs released to date are general and dont contain much detail ... no Lab reports released just general summaries of Lab reports eg. 'finger prints of subject dont match those on file' issued in triplicate to every office involved.   

below is an example of discussion about the paneled area search ... which was missed during the first entry and search at Reno.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 12:08:09 AM by georger »
 

Offline JLa

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1302 on: November 03, 2017, 04:58:10 AM »
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Howdy, everybody.

I've been looking at the Cooper case as something so flawed that must be taken back to formula, so to speak, so please excuse some of the basic questions I tend to post at times. One of the things that stands out is that none of the sources that I have found have actually detailed the FBI search of the plane. I have read many times that agents found the tie, magazines, drink glass, et cetera, and that they "searched the plane" for Cooper.

Has anybody here read a full description or checklist of places onboard the plane where they searched for people or explosives? For example: "We entered through the rear stairs, cleared the lavatories, then the cabin row-by-row, proceeded on to the cargo areas..."  All I get is vague statements, like, "The FBI searched the plane and Cooper was gone." Geoffrey Gray's documents touch on it a little bit, mentioning compartments where he doubtfully could have hidden, but has anyone seen anything more complete?



I honestly think that just a law enforcement thing. I've read so many reports over the years that essentially just jump to the good stuff. My theory is the longer and the more detailed of a negative search; it just seems to bore everyone, including the writer. They just want the cliffnotes version. Did you find what you were looking for? If so, continue. If not...bleh.  Is it the best way to record events? Probably not. But its probably a good guess of why you cant find that information.
 

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1303 on: November 03, 2017, 05:00:44 AM »
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Results were negative. I believe the toilets were drained and contents examined also. 


Yikes! How'd you like to get THAT assignment?!
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1304 on: November 03, 2017, 05:50:55 PM »
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Howdy, everybody.

I've been looking at the Cooper case as something so flawed that must be taken back to formula, so to speak, so please excuse some of the basic questions I tend to post at times. One of the things that stands out is that none of the sources that I have found have actually detailed the FBI search of the plane. I have read many times that agents found the tie, magazines, drink glass, et cetera, and that they "searched the plane" for Cooper.

Has anybody here read a full description or checklist of places onboard the plane where they searched for people or explosives? For example: "We entered through the rear stairs, cleared the lavatories, then the cabin row-by-row, proceeded on to the cargo areas..."  All I get is vague statements, like, "The FBI searched the plane and Cooper was gone." Geoffrey Gray's documents touch on it a little bit, mentioning compartments where he doubtfully could have hidden, but has anyone seen anything more complete?

Thats about it - you're right. Few detailed docs available on this or people would have said more. There were exchanges with Boeing and NWA about where to look - so panels in the back area were removed to see if Cooper was hiding in these recess areas or had been in that area. Results were negative. I believe the toilets were drained and contents examined also. 

FBI docs released to date are general and dont contain much detail ... no Lab reports released just general summaries of Lab reports eg. 'finger prints of subject dont match those on file' issued in triplicate to every office involved.   

below is an example of discussion about the paneled area search ... which was missed during the first entry and search at Reno.

Thanks for the attachment. I think this is different communication for the same search of those panels I read about. I'm interested in the cargo area. Depressurization would have made access possible to a lot of places, but it looks like I'd have to talk to the agents who were in Reno for any information on what was searched and when. I haven't found any Agent names yet. Suppose I'll keep looking, but any shortcuts are appreciated.

Another thing - Anybody know where the Reno airport was "covered" by the FBI? This I am literally finding nothing on. I did see someone put up some helpful airport info a while back.

P.S. - The blueprints of a 727 are amazingly clear once you stare at them long enough, like one of those dot paintings at the mall.