Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3606377 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4110 on: November 19, 2018, 05:26:46 PM »
There wasn't two oscillations. only one part of this is on the transcripts. that's the oscillation. the pressure bump would of been the stairs retracting and would give a different reading, sound, and feeling in the ears. if Cooper would of went back up the stairs then we would have another set of pressure changes with him going back down and then jumping.

A noticeable change occurred. it's like have all the windows up in the car and not being able to notice someone rolling one of the windows down. you would know.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 05:31:46 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4111 on: November 19, 2018, 05:53:01 PM »
I know what the transcript says.

My point is that the combination of attache/reserve/cooper is unlikely to have made it out of the plane with just one transition down/up of the airstairs.

How do you believe all the stuff got out of the plane?

I'm assuming going down the airstairs requires one hand on the rail (since the airstairs is moving down, and it's windy)

Back rig is on, money is tied on. Reserve is not clipped to anything. Have to carry with one hand. Same for attache case.

It doesn't make sense to me that everything went out in one go.

And there was no reported data on pressure changes due to walking down and up the stairs.
Only when sliding sled out.

So: I don't think the data guarantees the drop zone.

Why do you think the data guarantees the drop zone?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4112 on: November 19, 2018, 05:55:56 PM »
Those are all assumptions. we have no idea if he tossed some of the items. everyone else made it down the stairs? McCoy had twice the amount of money.

I think all of them, including the stuntman for the movie went down the stairs backwards or sideways giving even more room..
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4113 on: November 19, 2018, 05:56:39 PM »
He probably did go down the stairs and back up, at least part way to get his bearings and make sure the stairs lowered enough to get out. The ventral stair light came on and he struggled with them, then returned to "intercom" to talk to crew. He must have gone at least partially down the stairs then returned. It was 30 minutes between the aft stair light on and the oscillations. Hard to imagine he didn't try the stairs and how did the placard get out.

The sled test was flawed.. way too heavy.

"Gwen: Do you happen to recall how much that weighed?
Wally: No, I don't not right off. He weighed approximately 200 pounds and each shoot and the money had with him. All together probably between 275 and 300 pounds, with all the extra stuff."
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4114 on: November 19, 2018, 05:59:06 PM »
the light comes on the second the stairs are released from a closed position.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4115 on: November 19, 2018, 05:59:32 PM »
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Those are all assumptions. we have no idea if he tossed some of the items. everyone else made it down the stairs? McCoy had twice the amount of money.

I think all of them, including the stuntman for the movie went down the stairs backwards or sideways giving even more room..

Hahneman went down the stairs backwards and jumped back first. He left his briefcase "bomb" on the plane and the crew threw it out over water. Nobody confirmed what was in it.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4116 on: November 19, 2018, 06:02:41 PM »
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the light comes on the second the stairs are released from a closed position.

I know, point is he had 30 minutes back there..  obviously we don't know what he did but it is a reasonable assumption worth considering.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4117 on: November 19, 2018, 06:03:24 PM »
Oh I forgot about the earlier airstairs light on.

Is the thinking that he potentially went down the stairs before the detected pressure bump, and threw stuff out then?

If so, I'm wondering why no pressure bump then. I suppose it's possible if the airstairs move slowly you don't get a detectable pressure dump.

But then the question is: how fast do the stairs have to move, to get a detectable pressure bump.

The idea of "one pressure bump" seems iffy to me. The drop test should have also reported what happens walking down and up the stairs...?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4118 on: November 19, 2018, 06:04:17 PM »
How much does a T 10 parachute weight?
The T-10D main parachute is a parabolic-shape and has a nominal diameter of 35 feet (11 m) with 30 suspension lines. The entire assembly weighs 31 pounds (14 kg). Paratroopers can be dropped from an aircraft at a maximum speed of 173 mph (150 kn), at a minimum of 500 ft (150 m).
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4119 on: November 19, 2018, 06:06:29 PM »
The main canopy and harness weighs 38 pounds (17 kg), and the reserve assembly 15 pounds (6.8 kg), for a total of 53 pounds (24 kg). The main canopy is 30.6 feet (9.3 m) inflated diameters at the hem.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4120 on: November 19, 2018, 06:07:03 PM »
these have slightly bigger canopies, but you get the idea...
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4121 on: November 19, 2018, 06:07:30 PM »
Cooper had to have tossed the attache case and reserve.

Are you suggesting he tied or attached the attache case and reserve to himself somehow?
That's the point also: I can't see how he would have done that. Or why.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:08:13 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4122 on: November 19, 2018, 06:10:39 PM »
I don't see a reason to keep the briefcase...wasted real estate. it would of busted up on impact and nobody would be able to tie it back to him. the reserve, it's hard to say. he probably tossed it as well but you have to wonder why he didn't just leave it on the plane?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:11:05 PM by Shutter »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4123 on: November 19, 2018, 06:17:26 PM »
The placard came out well before the "oscillation", that suggests the aft stairs were opened enough for stuff to get out.. or be thrown.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4124 on: November 19, 2018, 06:17:37 PM »
Quote
The idea of "one pressure bump" seems iffy to me. The drop test should have also reported what happens walking down and up the stairs...?

I believe they did detect the walking down the stairs. you are going to notice changes in pressure. especially as a pilot. Georger has more knowledge on this..