Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1428655 times)

Offline foxmanb

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5505 on: April 16, 2020, 10:04:58 PM »
So I've put some thought into this. Who would have been hurt most by Coopers actions?

Boeing? Not really, it's their plane, but I don't see how this really harms themPilot/Co
Airline? Hijackings have always been random, doesn't really hurt their reputation or $$
Bank? Not really, the money is insured
Insurance company? Yes, they were the one entity who would have had to pay up.

Has anyone explored that angle? Perhaps the grudge was with the insurance company or industry?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5506 on: April 16, 2020, 11:54:50 PM »
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So I've put some thought into this. Who would have been hurt most by Coopers actions?

Boeing? Not really, it's their plane, but I don't see how this really harms themPilot/Co
Airline? Hijackings have always been random, doesn't really hurt their reputation or $$
Bank? Not really, the money is insured
Insurance company? Yes, they were the one entity who would have had to pay up.

Has anyone explored that angle? Perhaps the grudge was with the insurance company or industry?

Excellent question - too bad Tina didnt explore that ? He probably would have said he didn't want to talk about it.  ;)  The grudge could have been anything.

He said he had a grudge but not against your airlines.   So was it some other airline, against the aviation industry, . . . ?  Tina did not ask him to clarify.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 04:44:40 AM by georger »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5507 on: April 17, 2020, 07:11:23 AM »
As per last few posts...   Wasn't it Tina that brought up the "grudge" ?  Do you think the subject of a "grudge"would have come up if not for Tina's asking?  The way the the subject was brought up it seems to me that grudge could refer to a lot of different possibilities.    As far as who gets hurt the most by Cooper's actions, I would personally add law enforcement to the list of entities that were hurt by Cooper's actions. All levels of law enforcement took a beating, money not withstanding.     
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5508 on: April 17, 2020, 07:15:06 AM »
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So I've put some thought into this. Who would have been hurt most by Coopers actions?

Boeing? Not really, it's their plane, but I don't see how this really harms themPilot/Co
Airline? Hijackings have always been random, doesn't really hurt their reputation or $$
Bank? Not really, the money is insured
Insurance company? Yes, they were the one entity who would have had to pay up.

Has anyone explored that angle? Perhaps the grudge was with the insurance company or industry?

I doubt any one of the members on thus forum has not explored this to the full extent that one can, which is to say they have scratched their heads and come up with exactly what you have: nothing that makes any sense. I also doubt that any one of us is without a grudge of some sort. Probably a throwaway question.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5509 on: April 17, 2020, 09:42:18 AM »
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So I've put some thought into this. Who would have been hurt most by Coopers actions?

Boeing? Not really, it's their plane, but I don't see how this really harms themPilot/Co
Airline? Hijackings have always been random, doesn't really hurt their reputation or $$
Bank? Not really, the money is insured
Insurance company? Yes, they were the one entity who would have had to pay up.

Has anyone explored that angle? Perhaps the grudge was with the insurance company or industry?

I doubt any one of the members on thus forum has not explored this to the full extent that one can, which is to say they have scratched their heads and come up with exactly what you have: nothing that makes any sense. I also doubt that any one of us is without a grudge of some sort. Probably a throwaway question.

In my opinion this is a classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's all very simple. The guy wanted 200K and utilizing his knowledge and skills felt confident that he could get that 200K and get away with it.

Why he wanted 200K? Who knows. Probably some guy out of work with no real prospects on the horizon...especially as a middle-aged guy and especially if he had formerly worked in the aerospace sector which was in an economic collapse at the time.

The much more intriguing thing to consider is whether the money was spent. If it wasn't, where is it today?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 09:44:17 AM by EU »
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5510 on: April 17, 2020, 02:01:44 PM »
Cooper said: I have a grudge but it isn't against your airlines.

Nobody knows who Cooper was or what he meant by his statement above. Anything else is pure conjecture.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 05:36:22 PM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5511 on: April 18, 2020, 06:59:24 PM »
How's this for crooks in suits with grudges and money problems at the end of 1971?

"On June 19, 1971, Hoffa resigned as Teamsters president and Fitzsimmons was elected international president in his own right on July 9, 1971. By year's end, Fitzsimmons had purged a number of Hoffa supporters from the union's top offices."
 
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5512 on: May 03, 2020, 04:15:59 PM »
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Please elaborate on how he "brought his own chute on board and hid it in the briefcase bomb."  Whoever wrote that has obviously never seen a parachute.

No, the guy was an active jumper in that era, when parachutes were a lot bulkier than they are today. He described it as a 'rigger's roll', which was a small flimsy harness/container with one small round canopy in it. It would've been a lot smaller than a normal rig, but I myself wondered how even that would fit in the briefcase with the 'bomb'.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5513 on: May 03, 2020, 04:52:20 PM »
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Please elaborate on how he "brought his own chute on board and hid it in the briefcase bomb."  Whoever wrote that has obviously never seen a parachute.

No, the guy was an active jumper in that era, when parachutes were a lot bulkier than they are today. He described it as a 'rigger's roll', which was a small flimsy harness/container with one small round canopy in it. It would've been a lot smaller than a normal rig, but I myself wondered how even that would fit in the briefcase with the 'bomb'.

There is absolutely no way that you could get even a "small round canopy" in that briefcase even without the battery and several sticks of dynamite/flares being in the briefcase with it.  And don't forget that at least one of the flight attendants was shown the contents of the briefcase and didn't mention anything about a canopy.  And what I have seen of parachutists in the last 80 years, most prefer to have a harness to attach the canopy to when jumping.

The book is just plain BS, and I don't mean Bruce Smith.
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5514 on: May 03, 2020, 05:00:05 PM »
A parachute is not going create the pressure bump..he would have to pull the stairs up to trick them
.
 
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Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5515 on: May 03, 2020, 06:35:29 PM »
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A parachute is not going create the pressure bump..he would have to pull the stairs up to trick them
.

That would of done the trick as well shutt. I was talking to Matt L’Hommedieu last night who is an experienced smoke jumper and he mentioned one of the ways you could of simulated the pressure bump was to bounce a a chute off the stairs, I then asked him if deploying a chute off the stairs would also work and he said yes. I also asked 377 about deploying a chute off the stairs at cooper con and he said it would of caused and oscillation/pressure bump. What do you think dudeman?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 06:38:09 PM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5516 on: May 03, 2020, 07:15:51 PM »
Deploying the chute on the stairs requires you to have your back to the opening. The chute would not cause any disruption. It deploys away from the plane..
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5517 on: May 03, 2020, 11:12:03 PM »
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There is absolutely no way that you could get even a "small round canopy" in that briefcase even without the battery and several sticks of dynamite/flares being in the briefcase with it.  And don't forget that at least one of the flight attendants was shown the contents of the briefcase and didn't mention anything about a canopy.  And what I have seen of parachutists in the last 80 years, most prefer to have a harness to attach the canopy to when jumping.

The book is just plain BS, and I don't mean Bruce Smith.

The 'rigger's roll' rig as described in the book, does have a harness attached. But I agree, I can't see any such rig fitting into a briefcase, with or without a 'bomb'. Maybe in that other bag that Cooper had, not sure how big that was supposed to be.

Remember, the book was predominantly a work of fiction, it was just set in that era and had some real life people and events set in. So how much the author knew, how 'real life' his account is supposed to be, or whether he just threw the story in for grins, that would be the question. I wish I was more into the case at the time and had asked him about it.
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5518 on: May 04, 2020, 03:51:42 AM »
Could cooper have known about issaquah sky sports proximity to SeaTac and he simply rejected military chutes because he knew it would take longer? It’s apparent cooper didn’t want to stay on the ground very long.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 03:52:37 AM by nickyb233 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5519 on: May 04, 2020, 03:56:14 AM »
Proximity?

Really, Nicky? Issaquah Sky Sports is not all that close to Sea-Tac. In 1971, I'm not sure if the I-90 or SR 520 bridges were built across Lake Washington. That meant the Staties had to drive through Renton - DURING RUSH HOUR - even though it would be fading by 5pm-ish on the day before Turkey Day.

I would give the race to McChord. Straight shot up the I-5 against rush hour traffic. Again, if I-5 was built. I'll have to check. (Just did. 1967. Plus, the 520 Bridge was built in 1963. Still the Staties had to drive through Bellevue to Seattle and then down the I-5 to Sea-Tac - an hour at least. The run from McChord with lights and sirens would be 20 minutes.)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 04:01:57 AM by Bruce A. Smith »