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Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1461085 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5010 on: November 05, 2019, 02:25:19 PM »
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I've been on tailgates and stairwells (C 130, DC 9, CASA 212, Short Skyvan, etc) and can confirm that they are not turbulent locations in flight. Quite calm in fact. I was surprised when I first experienced this.

Either Boeing or NWO states in the 302 believing the pressure change caused the placard to escape. I don't find this to be plausible?

Even if the placard was placed on the exterior of the fuselage, it would probably be well within the boundary layer at the rear of the fuselage and not subjected to the full free stream air velocity.  The boundary layer at the rear bottom of a 727 fuselage, and near the stair cutout, would probably be something on the order of two inches thick.  In theory, the air velocity at the metal surface would be zero.  But theories and facts sometimes differ.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5011 on: November 05, 2019, 02:26:00 PM »
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This puts a fork in the "placard was from another jet" conspiracy theory.

The airstairs had to be deployed in-flight for the placard to separate from the jet.

Speak English!

What is a fork?  Spoon? Knife? Fork? Do you mean by "fork" = "exception" ?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5012 on: November 05, 2019, 02:27:47 PM »
Georger, follow this link...the red square is the emergency panel..the normal control is to the left behind a door..

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5013 on: November 05, 2019, 02:27:58 PM »
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Based on the wording in the placard, it would probably be placed next to the access door it mentions.

Correct. you can see the emergency panel in this photo FJ found...

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Here is another ...

ok! I saw that photo in the TAG photos and wondered ...
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5014 on: November 05, 2019, 02:29:14 PM »
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Here is what I know:

1) The placard was a decal.
2) The placard was affixed near the top of the stairs.
3) The placard was not affixed on the outside of the fuselage.

I am purchasing an emergency exit placard exactly like the one from Cooper's jet.

You can see images of the placard (front and back) at the following link because I cannot load the pictures onto the forum site.

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Is this a decal? Thin vs a thicker placard? Mounted how - has adhesive on the back?

The placard was affixed near the top of the stairs. Near an emergency stairs activation handle used for lowering the stairs? Which side of the door - right or left facing the door from the stairs?

Attached is a photo showing a rear stairs activation handle with a placard above it, right side of door. Was the placard and handle in the same place on Cooper's 727? If this is incorrect where would the stairs handle and placard have been located in this photo?

* I think you may been right about all of this.

This may well be an actual picture of a similar placard.

Regardless, we know with certainty that the red handle and break wire were accessible only from that area at the top of the airstairs, not outside of the jet from the outer skin of the fuselage.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5015 on: November 05, 2019, 02:29:23 PM »
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Georger, follow this link...the red square is the emergency panel..the normal control is to the left behind a door..

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so its a different version of this? but in the same place...
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5016 on: November 05, 2019, 02:30:48 PM »
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Georger, follow this link...the red square is the emergency panel..the normal control is to the left behind a door..

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so its a different version of this? but in the same place...

completely different...but yes, in the same place..
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 02:32:18 PM by Shutter »
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5017 on: November 05, 2019, 02:31:41 PM »
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Here is what I know:

1) The placard was a decal.
2) The placard was affixed near the top of the stairs.
3) The placard was not affixed on the outside of the fuselage.

I am purchasing an emergency exit placard exactly like the one from Cooper's jet.

You can see images of the placard (front and back) at the following link because I cannot load the pictures onto the forum site.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Is this a decal? Thin vs a thicker placard? Mounted how - has adhesive on the back?

The placard was affixed near the top of the stairs. Near an emergency stairs activation handle used for lowering the stairs? Which side of the door - right or left facing the door from the stairs?

Attached is a photo showing a rear stairs activation handle with a placard above it, right side of door. Was the placard and handle in the same place on Cooper's 727? If this is incorrect where would the stairs handle and placard have been located in this photo?

* I think you may been right about all of this.

This may well be an actual picture of a similar placard.

Regardless, we know with certainty that the red handle and break wire were accessible only from that area at the top of the airstairs, not outside of the jet from the outer skin of the fuselage.

ok got it!  That is interesting - why would these decals be routinely lost in ordinary operation? cant be wind. I seriously doubt it is a exterior decal because exterior decals are prepared to stay on!
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5018 on: November 05, 2019, 02:33:02 PM »
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Georger, follow this link...the red square is the emergency panel..the normal control is to the left behind a door..

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so its a different version of this? but in the same place...

completely different...

but in the same place ?

no handle.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5019 on: November 05, 2019, 02:33:54 PM »
They do come off on the exterior. they are very specific and in detail with all placards and markers. it doesn't serve a purpose away from the area it's intended for....
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5020 on: November 05, 2019, 02:35:59 PM »
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This puts a fork in the "placard was from another jet" conspiracy theory.

The airstairs had to be deployed in-flight for the placard to separate from the jet.

Speak English!

What is a fork?  Spoon? Knife? Fork? Do you mean by "fork" = "exception" ?

EU is speaking English!  Georger, he is saying that the stairs had to be deployed for the placard that was at the top of the stairs to get out of the fuselage.  Do you have a better explanation?
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5021 on: November 05, 2019, 02:36:42 PM »
Shutter, are you planning on buying a placard? I'm purchasing two to meet their minimum order requirement. I can send the extra onto you.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5022 on: November 05, 2019, 02:36:46 PM »
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Georger, follow this link...the red square is the emergency panel..the normal control is to the left behind a door..

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so its a different version of this? but in the same place...

completely different...

but in the same place ?

no handle.

when you open the bulkhead door, to the left and above the railing you will see a door with a placard on it saying stairs or stair release, I don't recall at the moment. that's the normal stair function. to the right of that is  small panel for the emergency handle behind the wall. you pull the panel off to access and pull the handle...
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5023 on: November 05, 2019, 02:38:18 PM »
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They do come off on the exterior. they are very specific and in detail with all placards and markers. it doesn't serve a purpose away from the area it's intended for....

the words on the placard say it all - only makes sense to have near the "access door" it is referring to . . . which is in the stairwell next to the back of the rear door.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5024 on: November 05, 2019, 02:38:27 PM »
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Shutter, are you planning on buying a placard? I'm purchasing two to meet their minimum order requirement. I can send the extra onto you.


Sure, I haven't ordered it yet. they sent the price quote yesterday..ASAP Semiconductor / Aerospace
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