Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 3605955 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #4005 on:** November 14, 2018, 08:37:36 PM »

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what bills from 1971?

1980 the FBI had all of the bills. Ingrams didn't get them until years later.

That was a quote from Kaye's site.. I assume he meant 1980..

Point is, what was the date of the clip of those black bills?

Probably Carr circa? he's the only one who really produced evidence.

Not Carr. clip is old,, sandwiched between 1980 clips..

If it was from 1980, we have a problem.

That video was probably pieced together. they didn't have what is called "thirds" or the banner you see below in the video which is for descriptions and news call signs.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #4006 on:** November 14, 2018, 10:28:41 PM »

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Question,,,

In this KOIN news clip start 2:09 at 2:13 black bills are shown with the date February 13, 1980.

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"Several potential natural sources for the silver coating were examined, but in casual conversation, a law enforcement officer mentioned that silver nitrate that was used in the early 70's to detect fingerprints. This treatment had the negative side effect of eventually turning the evidence black. Commercially available nitrate test strips were employed and the results were clearly positive. Further examination of the news photos from 1971 did not show any black bills."

QUESTION, was the video edited and the segment with the black bills inserted in between two pieces of 1980 footage? If so, what date were those bills recorded and there about 5 black bills. Any other matching images..

Found a similar image posted by Snow on DZ..

Image dated 1986.. lots of black bills, does Silver Nitrate turn a bill black in six years?

georger · « **Reply #4007 on:** November 14, 2018, 11:37:16 PM »

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Blasting caps use a small diameter resistance wire (sometimes called a bridgewire) that is surrounded by a small amount of primary explosive material. An electrical current is forced through the bridgewire, triggering the explosion of the blasting cap which then initiates detonation of the main explosive charge(s). When very precise timing is required, a high current capacitor discharge is often used to cause the bridgewire to explode. Blasting caps only require about 3 to 15 milliJoules of electrical energy to reliably detonate, and the typical resistance per blasting cap is only 1 to 3 ohms. Although lower currents can trigger caps, a minimum current of 0.5A is typically used. Higher current pulses reduce the time delay between current application and detonation.

Nobody has said the bomb had blasting caps so what blasting caps?

georger · « **Reply #4008 on:** November 14, 2018, 11:40:13 PM »

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Check this out Shutter: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

what blasting cap - surce for basting cap -please!

this is a different case...

Cooper appears to have the bomb wired from the battery to the blasting cap. it's possible he had long wires leading to and from and had a break in the wire that he was holding. he connects the wires which would connect the circuit igniting the blasting cap and boom. I suspect he had the wires pretty far apart which would make it hard for static electricity to arc between them or any type of signal.

If it was a real bomb...

Shutter · « **Reply #4009 on:** November 14, 2018, 11:40:36 PM »

Dynamite will not explode without them. other than a lighted fuse.

Shutter · « **Reply #4010 on:** November 14, 2018, 11:42:32 PM »

blasting cap/detonator.....

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snowmman · « **Reply #4011 on:** November 15, 2018, 12:47:45 PM »

The silver nitrate turning black apparently happens relatively quickly. Surely within 6 years.
Apparently sensitive to UV (sunlight)

The black color is due to the decomposition of the Ag+ ion into Ag, silver. Silver nitrate will slowly decompose with the silver ion reverting to elemental silver. The microscopic particles of silver are so small that they absorb light instead of reflecting it, and so appear black, instead of silver.

Interesting reading about it on the web. Apparently used in early experiments in creating light sensitive pictures, which led to cameras and film.

It's so incredible to me that humans have incrementally developed so much technology....and that leading to today's digital cameras. And then I can compress those results to arbitrary resolution with an algorithm, so that I can meet the size standards of this site.

The road goes on forever, the party never ends.

snowmman · « **Reply #4012 on:** November 15, 2018, 12:53:44 PM »

The best evidence for the bomb being fake was the way Cooper handled it.

If you're handling a live bomb that could blow you into pieces, whether you detonate it or not, you'll be relatively careful with it..i.e. you'd much rather blow yourself up on purpose, rather than "Oh shit!"

The idea of Cooper with a bare wire with his hand in the briefcase, and especially getting up with the briefcase horizontal with his hand in it, ready to detonate by touching something he can't see?

That's ridiculous. If you have a bare wire in a briefcase, and you can't see what you might touch that would detonate, and you're jumping around up and down...you're basically allowing randomness to control things.

So there's really no way the bomb was real.

You wouldn't build a real bomb, and stop when it came to reliable detonation and decide "Oh, I'll just have a bare wire for the switch"....Someone could push your arm, and BOOM! That would be a waste of a good bomb and the rest of your Raleighs.

snowmman · « **Reply #4013 on:** November 15, 2018, 01:05:45 PM »

It really bothers me that the FBI apparently didn't go to all hardware and auto parts stores in Portland looking to see if anyone remembers someone buying wire and flares and battery and tape in the days before 11/24/71

Cooper doesn't strike me as someone who had a stash of stuff in a garage that he picked through.

I mean, they apparently thought it was a fake bomb, but did nothing to see where the parts came from?

Portland wasn't that big a city back then. They could have covered Vancouver too.

Unless they're thinking Cooper flew or bused in with all his gear from somewhere else.

Tape, flares, wire, battery. Cooper would have purchased it all at once, I think. Clerk may have remembered.

georger · « **Reply #4014 on:** November 15, 2018, 01:56:48 PM »

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The best evidence for the bomb being fake was the way Cooper handled it.

If you're handling a live bomb that could blow you into pieces, whether you detonate it or not, you'll be relatively careful with it..i.e. you'd much rather blow yourself up on purpose, rather than "Oh shit!"

The idea of Cooper with a bare wire with his hand in the briefcase, and especially getting up with the briefcase horizontal with his hand in it, ready to detonate by touching something he can't see?

That's ridiculous. If you have a bare wire in a briefcase, and you can't see what you might touch that would detonate, and you're jumping around up and down...you're basically allowing randomness to control things.

So there's really no way the bomb was real.

You wouldn't build a real bomb, and stop when it came to reliable detonation and decide "Oh, I'll just have a bare wire for the switch"....Someone could push your arm, and BOOM! That would be a waste of a good bomb and the rest of your Raleighs.

Haphazard but not proof it was not a real bomb. Stupid people do stupid things and get away with it.

Ordinance experts built a test device based on the Mucklow and FBI descriptions. Since no blasting cap had been described that element of the circuitry was undecidable. Otherwise if flares, this circuit would not ignite them.

Cooper used the 'bomb' for presentation effect with untrained stewardesses. He made no effort and did not volunteer to show the bomb to anyone else, but he was very anxious to know if there was an air marshal on the plane that was observing them. He also mentions the presence of oxygen canisters directly behind and above where they are sitting. He says the bomb is 'electronically fused' and cautions radio use might trigger the bomb, but then he backs off saying ' not likely' - but he brings it up for people to consider also!

'Electronically fused' is interesting. Maybe he reads Popular Science or Popular Mechanics? It's a message he knows the stew will deliver to higher level people up the chain of command. He's a psychologist!

All of this to elicit cooperation, and they assure him they will cooperate.

A solid low level presentation to an uninformed stewardess to gain cooperation and control.

Shutter · « **Reply #4015 on:** November 15, 2018, 03:27:17 PM »

to the untrained eye a blasting cap will not be seen. in order to detonate dynamite you need this item. witnesses said wires were going to the dynamite. that can only lead to a blasting cap. it's inserted inside the end of the stick. 3-7 inches long and made of metal.

dynamite is stable as long as it's fresh. it comes down to exactly how he made the bomb (if real)
If your foolish enough to hijack a plane, your probably stupid enough to carry explosives.
It's a matter of who is bluffing IMO.

Shutter · « **Reply #4016 on:** November 15, 2018, 03:36:18 PM »

Since the stews had no idea what they were looking at it's hard to say if a cap could be noticed. if he used flares it's unlikely one was there as it serves no purpose. he still had wires leading to the dynamite (obviously) or it wouldn't look real.

what would be the reason not to leave it on the plane, prints?

snowmman · « **Reply #4017 on:** November 15, 2018, 03:41:52 PM »

Georger is apparently referencing the contents of the 2nd interview with Tina
that was done on 12/1 and 12/2 1971
and published as FBI memo 12/3

we've snipped it before. Here's the relevant text that covers what Georger is alluding to about the device being 'electronic' and radio might detonate it.
(the 6x8x2 inch battery here seems to be in error. Maybe 6" or 8" ?? it does say "in diameter". Elsewhere, the idea that it is a round cylindirical battery is reinforced, by a length x diameter description)

<redacted> sat next to the man and shortly thereafter he opened a black cheap appearing imitation leather attache case and showed her a device with eight red cylinders and a wire running from the cylinders towards a large 6" x 8" x 2" in diameter battery.

The wire had a red plastic coating around it, all with the exception of the last inch which was bare and which the man held in between his fingers.

He told her it was an electronic device and suggested the aircraft radio be used as little as possible.

He said he didn't think radio transmissions would bother it, but wanted to let the crew know.

Shutter · « **Reply #4018 on:** November 15, 2018, 03:56:16 PM »

blasting caps that need current would be considered electronic. I've noticed that most don't have red wires. Military caps are brown.

two types of blasting caps..electronic and fused.

snowmman · « **Reply #4019 on:** November 15, 2018, 04:11:55 PM »

Here's an interesting subtlety.
This is in the same 12/3/71 memo reflecting the in-depth interview of Tina
She says that she learned about the list of demands that went to the cockpit, after she had been talking to Cooper.
And that Cooper asked for "circulated" currency when talking to her ?

The fbi memo says:

During one message to the pilot, he specified that all of the previous requested items be at the airport when they landed. She later learned that the note which <redacted> had carried to the pilot contained a list of demands. He later told <redacted> that he wanted $200,000 in circulated U. S, currency, two back and two front parachutes, and fuel trucks to meet the plane when if landed at Seattle.

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case (Read 3605955 times)

Shutter

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FLYJACK

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georger

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Shutter

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