Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 601362 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6465 on: November 05, 2019, 04:00:06 PM »
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We are all indebted to Colbert and Zaid. Their relentless assertion of FOIA rights has reaped a bountiful harvest of NORJAK info. Many federal agencies routinely deny legitimate FOIA requests knowing that only a few will pursue admin appeals or civil lawsuits. Zaid knows the law and how to use it. Colbert has generously shared the results. Big thanks to both.

Rackstraw is the evilest of the Cooper candidates. He made ordinary sociopaths look like saints. TC's book is a great read even if you don't think Rackstraw was Cooper.

This is a fascinating story just published last weekend. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A CA drag boat (bottom trawler) captain built a towable housing for a couple of GoPro cameras and bright lights and attached them to his net facing forward near the mouth. He recorded thousands of hours of ocean bottom video and liked watching them in his spare time. There was no way to get a live view, he had to wait until the net was pulled and download video from the SD cards. He kept a GPS trawl track to correlate objects seen on video with locations using time stamps. On one trawl he spotted what he is absolutely certain were gold bars lying on the bottom (I disagree but look at the images and draw your own conclusions). Gold fever ensues and the story gets really interesting.

I wish some boat that regularly sails on stretches of the Columbia relevant to Cooper's jump could tow a similar camera/light rig. Who knows what the camera might spot? These days it would be fairly easy to use image processing algorithms to scan the recordings looking for unusual objects.

377

I encourage you to "flesh-out" this dredging/camera project at CooperCon, Mark. I trust there will be LOTS of youngin's in the audience looking to dive into the Vortex with something like this.

At the very least, the video feed and resulting YouTube Channels would make a grat companion to the Vortex podcasts.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6466 on: November 05, 2019, 04:02:49 PM »
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wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?

Galen says that he and Tosaw found a pilot chute on a wing dam just upstream from T-Bar. But my sense is that Tosaw was going for the Grand Salami by finding DBC's body in the deeper channels of the river.
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6467 on: November 05, 2019, 04:47:05 PM »
I recall reading that the pilot chute they found was not the spring-loaded type used in emergency bailout rigs. If it had no internal spring, it wasn't Cooper's. Fishermen sometimes used the springless pilot chutes as sea anchors to slow down boat wind drift. I bet Cooper's main rigs had MA 1 pilot chutes.

First photo is MA-1. Second is another later type but shows internal spring.

377

 
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Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6468 on: November 05, 2019, 05:47:26 PM »
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wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?

Galen says that he and Tosaw found a pilot chute on a wing dam just upstream from T-Bar. But my sense is that Tosaw was going for the Grand Salami by finding DBC's body in the deeper channels of the river.

Didnt Curtis Rainey find the pilot chute at a wing dam - not sure Tosaw was even there that day? It was Rainey that gave the interview not Tosaw or Cook - I have it. Will look it up tonight. Tosaw, I believe, then gave the chute to the FBI. The press conference was with Rainey and Cossey - Tosaw nor Cook were there.

Here is one article from Spokane 1988. It was a diver searching a wing dam, not Tosaw or Cook.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 06:00:02 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6469 on: November 05, 2019, 05:48:46 PM »
I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6470 on: November 05, 2019, 10:42:08 PM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6471 on: November 06, 2019, 12:07:56 AM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.

That could be right. Lets clear one thing up - Kermit can confirm.

Kermit and I have talked to the Rainey(s) at length. Curtis Rainey and his older brother were licensed commercial divers with their own boat and gear. It started through Curtis' older brother who had retired from the Navy, was a Seal and a certified diver with the Navy (hard hat and scuba). Curtis was restricted to scuba diving only. They had a modern boat with depth finders etc. The older brother saw and heard about Tosaw hiring divers; through the original owner of the Dive Shop Inc at Portland (now deceased but run today by his son). This is how the Rainey's and Tosaw got together. I have no idea what Galen Cook and Tosaw were doing together during this period but Mr. Cook has never come up in any conversation with the Rainey's explaining their history with Tosaw. The 'pilot chute' socalled was found on  a wingdam not too far from Caterpillar Island. 

The pilot chute was turned over to the FBI, the FBI called in Cossey, and there were press interviews with Cossey and Curtis Rainey.     

The Rainey's and salvage people watched the 1980 excavation at Tina Bar with interest, talked to the FBI, etc. They informed the FBI about a wing dam on the Washington side just north of T-Bar. The Rainey's dove that wing dam three times but found nothing. They reported back to the Portland office and a memo was sent to Seattle informing them of nothing found in this wing dam search. The original owner of the Portland Dive Shop was also present during these dives ...  and other divers working out of the Dive Shop may have searched that wing dam on their own after the Rainey(s) were through, but nothing related to the Cooper case has ever been reported being found at that wing dam.

The finding of money at Tina Bar really alerted people who work with the river to be on the lookout for anything unusual that might be related to the Cooper case. The owner of the Dive Shop was very interested in the Cooper case as were many involved in river salvage work on the Columbia. The Dive Shop owner became a kind of repository for reports and news - he kept a large file of people's reports and theories and explorations . . . and kept agents at the Portland office informed of any news coming his way that might be related to the Cooper case including work that Tosaw was doing on the river ...  ;)     
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 01:06:58 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6472 on: November 06, 2019, 01:48:54 AM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.

That could be right. Lets clear one thing up - Kermit can confirm.

Kermit and I have talked to the Rainey(s) at length. Curtis Rainey and his older brother were licensed commercial divers with their own boat and gear. It started through Curtis' older brother who had retired from the Navy, was a Seal and a certified diver with the Navy (hard hat and scuba). Curtis was restricted to scuba diving only. They had a modern boat with depth finders etc. The older brother saw and heard about Tosaw hiring divers; through the original owner of the Dive Shop Inc at Portland (now deceased but run today by his son). This is how the Rainey's and Tosaw got together. I have no idea what Galen Cook and Tosaw were doing together during this period but Mr. Cook has never come up in any conversation with the Rainey's explaining their history with Tosaw. The 'pilot chute' socalled was found on  a wingdam not too far from Caterpillar Island. 

The pilot chute was turned over to the FBI, the FBI called in Cossey, and there were press interviews with Cossey and Curtis Rainey.     

The Rainey's and salvage people watched the 1980 excavation at Tina Bar with interest, talked to the FBI, etc. They informed the FBI about a wing dam on the Washington side just north of T-Bar. The Rainey's dove that wing dam three times but found nothing. They reported back to the Portland office and a memo was sent to Seattle informing them of nothing found in this wing dam search. The original owner of the Portland Dive Shop was also present during these dives ...  and other divers working out of the Dive Shop may have searched that wing dam on their own after the Rainey(s) were through, but nothing related to the Cooper case has ever been reported being found at that wing dam.

The finding of money at Tina Bar really alerted people who work with the river to be on the lookout for anything unusual that might be related to the Cooper case. The owner of the Dive Shop was very interested in the Cooper case as were many involved in river salvage work on the Columbia. The Dive Shop owner became a kind of repository for reports and news - he kept a large file of people's reports and theories and explorations . . . and kept agents at the Portland office informed of any news coming his way that might be related to the Cooper case including work that Tosaw was doing on the river ...  ;)   

The wing dams for about a mile or two downstream from Tina Bar is probably where anything related to the money would be found.  Since there were at least three packets of bills found at Tina Bar within inches of each other, it appears that they were in a container of some sort that grounded there.  They might have been in the actual money bag and still attached to Cooper's body or what was left of it.  Remember that Cooper had on a rain coat and the parachute backpack and harness plus the money bag and maybe a chest reserve chute that was over that.  So if Cooper had landed on solid ground and spent some time exposed to the elements, there would probably still be some portions of his remains within that rain coat.  Then the spring run off would take those downstream and scatter ever thing along the way.  And things would be on the bottom and working downhill as they moved along.  Even today, the parachute equipment is probably still in relatively good condition and maybe the rain coat as well.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6473 on: November 06, 2019, 03:51:32 AM »
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wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?

Galen says that he and Tosaw found a pilot chute on a wing dam just upstream from T-Bar. But my sense is that Tosaw was going for the Grand Salami by finding DBC's body in the deeper channels of the river.

Didnt Curtis Rainey find the pilot chute at a wing dam - not sure Tosaw was even there that day? It was Rainey that gave the interview not Tosaw or Cook - I have it. Will look it up tonight. Tosaw, I believe, then gave the chute to the FBI. The press conference was with Rainey and Cossey - Tosaw nor Cook were there.

Here is one article from Spokane 1988. It was a diver searching a wing dam, not Tosaw or Cook.

There may be two incidents - two wing dams and two pilot chutes. From what Galen told me, he was in the water at the wing dam when the chute was found, but it was in some deep water - maybe 20-feet - so a diver would have been needed. And, I think it was later than 1988. Maybe ten years later.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:52:27 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6474 on: November 06, 2019, 04:56:50 AM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.

That could be right. Lets clear one thing up - Kermit can confirm.

Kermit and I have talked to the Rainey(s) at length. Curtis Rainey and his older brother were licensed commercial divers with their own boat and gear. It started through Curtis' older brother who had retired from the Navy, was a Seal and a certified diver with the Navy (hard hat and scuba). Curtis was restricted to scuba diving only. They had a modern boat with depth finders etc. The older brother saw and heard about Tosaw hiring divers; through the original owner of the Dive Shop Inc at Portland (now deceased but run today by his son). This is how the Rainey's and Tosaw got together. I have no idea what Galen Cook and Tosaw were doing together during this period but Mr. Cook has never come up in any conversation with the Rainey's explaining their history with Tosaw. The 'pilot chute' socalled was found on  a wingdam not too far from Caterpillar Island. 

The pilot chute was turned over to the FBI, the FBI called in Cossey, and there were press interviews with Cossey and Curtis Rainey.     

The Rainey's and salvage people watched the 1980 excavation at Tina Bar with interest, talked to the FBI, etc. They informed the FBI about a wing dam on the Washington side just north of T-Bar. The Rainey's dove that wing dam three times but found nothing. They reported back to the Portland office and a memo was sent to Seattle informing them of nothing found in this wing dam search. The original owner of the Portland Dive Shop was also present during these dives ...  and other divers working out of the Dive Shop may have searched that wing dam on their own after the Rainey(s) were through, but nothing related to the Cooper case has ever been reported being found at that wing dam.

The finding of money at Tina Bar really alerted people who work with the river to be on the lookout for anything unusual that might be related to the Cooper case. The owner of the Dive Shop was very interested in the Cooper case as were many involved in river salvage work on the Columbia. The Dive Shop owner became a kind of repository for reports and news - he kept a large file of people's reports and theories and explorations . . . and kept agents at the Portland office informed of any news coming his way that might be related to the Cooper case including work that Tosaw was doing on the river ...  ;)   

The wing dams for about a mile or two downstream from Tina Bar is probably where anything related to the money would be found.  Since there were at least three packets of bills found at Tina Bar within inches of each other, it appears that they were in a container of some sort that grounded there.  They might have been in the actual money bag and still attached to Cooper's body or what was left of it.  Remember that Cooper had on a rain coat and the parachute backpack and harness plus the money bag and maybe a chest reserve chute that was over that.  So if Cooper had landed on solid ground and spent some time exposed to the elements, there would probably still be some portions of his remains within that rain coat.  Then the spring run off would take those downstream and scatter ever thing along the way.  And things would be on the bottom and working downhill as they moved along.  Even today, the parachute equipment is probably still in relatively good condition and maybe the rain coat as well.

Packets vs bundles. Im not going there!  :nono:

They were in a container of some sort. News to the world! The only container the FBI found was sand... so please turn this container into the FBI at your earliest convenience. The packets with paper straps too!  :chr2: 

In fact, call the Seafirst bank and ask for any VP. Tell him or her you have "packets" of money you need advice about. See what he says. Since FJ says "packets" is a universal banking term the VP should know exactly what you mean and how many bills per "packet" .... you know like everyone in the FBI and all the crew did in Flyjack's version of NORJAK. 

Report back to us what the VP said ... if he didn't hang up on you. Dont be offended if the VP asks you what a "packet" is.  ;)   
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 05:08:03 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6475 on: November 06, 2019, 05:00:42 AM »
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wing dams...I think Tosaw covered those. I think a small chute was found in one?

Galen says that he and Tosaw found a pilot chute on a wing dam just upstream from T-Bar. But my sense is that Tosaw was going for the Grand Salami by finding DBC's body in the deeper channels of the river.

Didnt Curtis Rainey find the pilot chute at a wing dam - not sure Tosaw was even there that day? It was Rainey that gave the interview not Tosaw or Cook - I have it. Will look it up tonight. Tosaw, I believe, then gave the chute to the FBI. The press conference was with Rainey and Cossey - Tosaw nor Cook were there.

Here is one article from Spokane 1988. It was a diver searching a wing dam, not Tosaw or Cook.

There may be two incidents - two wing dams and two pilot chutes. From what Galen told me, he was in the water at the wing dam when the chute was found, but it was in some deep water - maybe 20-feet - so a diver would have been needed. And, I think it was later than 1988. Maybe ten years later.

About 20ft of water matches...

Galen is a scuba diver?  And Curtis Rainey was there with Galen in the water?  So who turned the chute into the FBI? Tosaw, Galen, Rainey ... ? This is the first time I am hearing about this. Later than 1988?  Im not sure when Curtis and his brother dissolved the business, but I can ask.

Kermit do you know anything about this? Did Curtis mention Cook to you?  If you dont see this to answer within a couple of days I will call and leave a message ...
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 05:15:06 AM by georger »
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6476 on: November 06, 2019, 01:29:19 PM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.

That could be right. Lets clear one thing up - Kermit can confirm.

Kermit and I have talked to the Rainey(s) at length. Curtis Rainey and his older brother were licensed commercial divers with their own boat and gear. It started through Curtis' older brother who had retired from the Navy, was a Seal and a certified diver with the Navy (hard hat and scuba). Curtis was restricted to scuba diving only. They had a modern boat with depth finders etc. The older brother saw and heard about Tosaw hiring divers; through the original owner of the Dive Shop Inc at Portland (now deceased but run today by his son). This is how the Rainey's and Tosaw got together. I have no idea what Galen Cook and Tosaw were doing together during this period but Mr. Cook has never come up in any conversation with the Rainey's explaining their history with Tosaw. The 'pilot chute' socalled was found on  a wingdam not too far from Caterpillar Island. 

The pilot chute was turned over to the FBI, the FBI called in Cossey, and there were press interviews with Cossey and Curtis Rainey.     

The Rainey's and salvage people watched the 1980 excavation at Tina Bar with interest, talked to the FBI, etc. They informed the FBI about a wing dam on the Washington side just north of T-Bar. The Rainey's dove that wing dam three times but found nothing. They reported back to the Portland office and a memo was sent to Seattle informing them of nothing found in this wing dam search. The original owner of the Portland Dive Shop was also present during these dives ...  and other divers working out of the Dive Shop may have searched that wing dam on their own after the Rainey(s) were through, but nothing related to the Cooper case has ever been reported being found at that wing dam.

The finding of money at Tina Bar really alerted people who work with the river to be on the lookout for anything unusual that might be related to the Cooper case. The owner of the Dive Shop was very interested in the Cooper case as were many involved in river salvage work on the Columbia. The Dive Shop owner became a kind of repository for reports and news - he kept a large file of people's reports and theories and explorations . . . and kept agents at the Portland office informed of any news coming his way that might be related to the Cooper case including work that Tosaw was doing on the river ...  ;)   

I’m Kermit and I cannot confirm most of the content of Georger’s  post ! First off I did communicate with Curtis Rainey in March of this year. We did exchange several E-Mails and I passed this information to georger. I also passed onto Georger the contact information for Curtis Rainey and Curtis is the only Rainey I have communicated with ! That’s the only part of Georger’s post I can confirm. I found Curtis to be a really friendly person and he lives in an awesome area.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6477 on: November 06, 2019, 03:38:38 PM »
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I recall something about it possibly being a chute from a flare?

There were discussions here and/or at DZ a long time ago about a small chute being found upstream of Portland (I think).  These small chutes with no springs are almost certainly going to be flare chutes from the Yakima Training Center which is in the watershed and edge of the Columbia River.  Since these chutes had to fit into an artillery type shell, it is just the flare apparatus and the chute cloth.

That could be right. Lets clear one thing up - Kermit can confirm.

Kermit and I have talked to the Rainey(s) at length. Curtis Rainey and his older brother were licensed commercial divers with their own boat and gear. It started through Curtis' older brother who had retired from the Navy, was a Seal and a certified diver with the Navy (hard hat and scuba). Curtis was restricted to scuba diving only. They had a modern boat with depth finders etc. The older brother saw and heard about Tosaw hiring divers; through the original owner of the Dive Shop Inc at Portland (now deceased but run today by his son). This is how the Rainey's and Tosaw got together. I have no idea what Galen Cook and Tosaw were doing together during this period but Mr. Cook has never come up in any conversation with the Rainey's explaining their history with Tosaw. The 'pilot chute' socalled was found on  a wingdam not too far from Caterpillar Island. 

The pilot chute was turned over to the FBI, the FBI called in Cossey, and there were press interviews with Cossey and Curtis Rainey.     

The Rainey's and salvage people watched the 1980 excavation at Tina Bar with interest, talked to the FBI, etc. They informed the FBI about a wing dam on the Washington side just north of T-Bar. The Rainey's dove that wing dam three times but found nothing. They reported back to the Portland office and a memo was sent to Seattle informing them of nothing found in this wing dam search. The original owner of the Portland Dive Shop was also present during these dives ...  and other divers working out of the Dive Shop may have searched that wing dam on their own after the Rainey(s) were through, but nothing related to the Cooper case has ever been reported being found at that wing dam.

The finding of money at Tina Bar really alerted people who work with the river to be on the lookout for anything unusual that might be related to the Cooper case. The owner of the Dive Shop was very interested in the Cooper case as were many involved in river salvage work on the Columbia. The Dive Shop owner became a kind of repository for reports and news - he kept a large file of people's reports and theories and explorations . . . and kept agents at the Portland office informed of any news coming his way that might be related to the Cooper case including work that Tosaw was doing on the river ...  ;)   

I’m Kermit and I cannot confirm most of the content of Georger’s  post ! First off I did communicate with Curtis Rainey in March of this year. We did exchange several E-Mails and I passed this information to georger. I also passed onto Georger the contact information for Curtis Rainey and Curtis is the only Rainey I have communicated with ! That’s the only part of Georger’s post I can confirm. I found Curtis to be a really friendly person and he lives in an awesome area.

Thanks Kermit. The small chute was found on Monday Nov 21 1988 by Curtis Rainey. The press conf followed with Cossey on the 26th, as per the attached aricle. Again Mr. Cook's name has never come up in any of my interviews with the Raineys, or others (salvage people etc). I thought Galen told me he worked with Tosaw 'one summer' but I forget what year that was? The article states the chute was found 20-25 feet deep, but does not mention that Rainey was diving at a wing dam. As per the article, Tosaw was not available evidently for the press conference and Im not even sure now if Tosaw was even present when Curtis dove the wingdam and found the pilot or flare chute. When the Raineys and others dove the wingdam NORTH of Tina Bar, just after the excavation at Tina Bar in 1980, I know that Tosaw was not part of that expedition. In another article I have, Tosaw says he attributes the Cooper money found at Tina Bar to dredging work done on the Columbia close to T_Bar, done in 1974 .. so at some point Tosaw subscribed to the Dredging Theory. That fits with what the Raineys told me Tosaw had told them.

It was the money find at Tina Bar in 1980 that really sparked widespread interest in searching the Columbia. Prior to that it does not appear anyone suspected the Columbia might be part of the Cooper story.         
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:45:09 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6478 on: November 06, 2019, 04:06:00 PM »
Here is a paste up using newspaper clippings about Tosaw, Farflung put together. One clipping mentions Tosaw's belief that the Cooper money was deposited on Tina Bar by the dredging in 1974 . . .  Tosaw believed Cooper landed in the Columbia and died, upstream of Tina Bar.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 04:11:49 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6479 on: November 07, 2019, 12:44:33 AM »
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Here is a paste up using newspaper clippings about Tosaw, Farflung put together. One clipping mentions Tosaw's belief that the Cooper money was deposited on Tina Bar by the dredging in 1974 . . .  Tosaw believed Cooper landed in the Columbia and died, upstream of Tina Bar.

So Tosaw believed that the airliner bypassed Portland on the western side?  I'm sure that Georger will still claim otherwise.