Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
5 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.7%)
35% Cooper lived.
1 (2.2%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
9 (20%)
100 Cooper lived
17 (37.8%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 429050 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5145 on: November 28, 2019, 02:12:05 PM »
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Peterson is not credible IMO. He gets just about everything wrong. His name is mentioned zero times anywhere...

Peterson got the refueling wrong, he got the money bag wrong, the money was NOT counted at the NWA facility at SEATAC, and it was Al Lee and a Seattle police detective who drove out to the aircraft with the money, parachutes, and maps/approach plates/meals.  And Peterson makes additional mistakes.

Peterson's claims are nonsense.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 02:17:43 PM by Robert99 »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5146 on: November 28, 2019, 02:27:35 PM »
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Mark brought up something really pertinent with his interview with the cooper vortex and at the conference. In towsaws book he says cooper found and examined the packing cards...mark said the only person that would know and or even care to look at packing cards was a skydiver. There hard to find on the rig... Military jumpers didn’t care about packing cards and since they didn’t wouldn’t even know where they were. This is something only a skydiver was interested in and was keen on. Mark says tosaw wouldn’t make anything up and I believe him. How would he even know about packing cards to make it up? This tells me cooper was A: a rec skydiver or B: went to skydivers in doing his homework and due diligence for norjack and they told him to check the packing card and showed him where it was located. This leads me back to my backyard...the town I’ve resided in for the past 11 years. Lake Elsinore, California. Where mark said during the conference was known in the skydiving circles for recruitment from the cia. The fact that a man matching coopers description, smoking Raleigh’s and was asking questions on how to jump out of a jet gives credence to this. I believe to my core cooper was that guy 3 months prior at Elsinore gathering intel. Too big of a coincidence. The name was redacted on the fbi file but I was able to find out who made the report and it was the guy running the DZ at the time by the name of Lyle Cameron. Strangely enough Lyle Cameron was one of the last people jack ruby called before murdering lee Harvey Oswalt. He died in a plane crash in the early 90’s in Honduras where the cia was known to operate. I tracked down his son who said he believed his dad worked for the government and knew the exact same thing about ruby calling his old man, he told me quote what was ruby doing calling my old man. Cameron was a skydiving pioneer on the west coast, ruby was on the east coast on a totally different circle/world... what’s there connection. Anyway he told me he heard that exact same story about the guy in Elsinore not from his dad directly but one of his skydiving buddies. I just repeated the fbi report and he said I heard that same story verbatim. He added one thing though the guys at Elsinore said he was a geeky looking guy. I immediately had flash backs to a Bill Mitchell interview where he used the exact same terminology to describe cooper “Geeky.”

If 377 (Mark) actually said that checking the packing card absolutely meant that Cooper was a skydiver, then he (377) is wrong.  I knew how to check an emergency parachute packing card when I was 16 years old, or maybe even younger.

The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air. Did he know where Hayden Island was? Why was he so concerned about Sky Marshals being on this low key NWA last-of-the-day shuttle flight btwn Portland and Seattle with people going home for Thanksgiving? Did he think Sky Marshals were everywhere including on NASA missions to the Moon, on Thanksgiving!?

Is Cooper a well traveled person or just a person who watches a lot of news on TV? Is Cooper an involved person or just a spectator of life, or a little of both?     
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5147 on: November 28, 2019, 05:22:06 PM »
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Mark brought up something really pertinent with his interview with the cooper vortex and at the conference. In towsaws book he says cooper found and examined the packing cards...mark said the only person that would know and or even care to look at packing cards was a skydiver. There hard to find on the rig... Military jumpers didn’t care about packing cards and since they didn’t wouldn’t even know where they were. This is something only a skydiver was interested in and was keen on. Mark says tosaw wouldn’t make anything up and I believe him. How would he even know about packing cards to make it up? This tells me cooper was A: a rec skydiver or B: went to skydivers in doing his homework and due diligence for norjack and they told him to check the packing card and showed him where it was located. This leads me back to my backyard...the town I’ve resided in for the past 11 years. Lake Elsinore, California. Where mark said during the conference was known in the skydiving circles for recruitment from the cia. The fact that a man matching coopers description, smoking Raleigh’s and was asking questions on how to jump out of a jet gives credence to this. I believe to my core cooper was that guy 3 months prior at Elsinore gathering intel. Too big of a coincidence. The name was redacted on the fbi file but I was able to find out who made the report and it was the guy running the DZ at the time by the name of Lyle Cameron. Strangely enough Lyle Cameron was one of the last people jack ruby called before murdering lee Harvey Oswalt. He died in a plane crash in the early 90’s in Honduras where the cia was known to operate. I tracked down his son who said he believed his dad worked for the government and knew the exact same thing about ruby calling his old man, he told me quote what was ruby doing calling my old man. Cameron was a skydiving pioneer on the west coast, ruby was on the east coast on a totally different circle/world... what’s there connection. Anyway he told me he heard that exact same story about the guy in Elsinore not from his dad directly but one of his skydiving buddies. I just repeated the fbi report and he said I heard that same story verbatim. He added one thing though the guys at Elsinore said he was a geeky looking guy. I immediately had flash backs to a Bill Mitchell interview where he used the exact same terminology to describe cooper “Geeky.”

If 377 (Mark) actually said that checking the packing card absolutely meant that Cooper was a skydiver, then he (377) is wrong.  I knew how to check an emergency parachute packing card when I was 16 years old, or maybe even younger.

The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air. Did he know where Hayden Island was? Why was he so concerned about Sky Marshals being on this low key NWA last-of-the-day shuttle flight btwn Portland and Seattle with people going home for Thanksgiving? Did he think Sky Marshals were everywhere including on NASA missions to the Moon, on Thanksgiving!?

Is Cooper a well traveled person or just a person who watches a lot of news on TV? Is Cooper an involved person or just a spectator of life, or a little of both?     

What is the significance of identifying Tacoma from the air?

 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5148 on: November 28, 2019, 07:18:05 PM »
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The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air.

Ahhh, it’s at points such as this where we need to be careful. How do we know that the jet was actually flying over Tacoma when DBC made the comment?
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5149 on: November 28, 2019, 08:47:41 PM »
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The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air.

Ahhh, it’s at points such as this where we need to be careful. How do we know that the jet was actually flying over Tacoma when DBC made the comment?

Tina is the one who reported this fact... I assume she could identify Tacoma from the air and confirm the statement.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5150 on: November 28, 2019, 10:04:45 PM »
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The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air.

Ahhh, it’s at points such as this where we need to be careful. How do we know that the jet was actually flying over Tacoma when DBC made the comment?

Tina is the one who reported this fact... I assume she could identify Tacoma from the air and confirm the statement.

Yes, Tina relayed the comment. But it’s actually nothing more than that. A related comment.

The assumption, of course, was that the jet was actually over Tacoma at the time of the comment. That said, how do we know? Did Tina look out the window to verify? Was she familiar with Tacoma from the air?

Tacoma is not an easy call unless you’re intimately familiar with the region.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5151 on: November 28, 2019, 10:51:53 PM »
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The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air.

Ahhh, it’s at points such as this where we need to be careful. How do we know that the jet was actually flying over Tacoma when DBC made the comment?

The airliner spent about 90 minutes in a holding pattern that was northwest of SEATAC.  So it probably didn't spend more than a couple of minutes flying over Tacoma on its way to that holding pattern.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5152 on: November 28, 2019, 11:50:04 PM »
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The one thing Cooper did do correctly was identify Tacoma from the air.

Ahhh, it’s at points such as this where we need to be careful. How do we know that the jet was actually flying over Tacoma when DBC made the comment?

The airliner spent about 90 minutes in a holding pattern that was northwest of SEATAC.  So it probably didn't spend more than a couple of minutes flying over Tacoma on its way to that holding pattern.

Quick ID of a place he knew the relative position of. He may have known where NY City and Dallas and Hawaii were, relatively speaking!  ;)  Did he know where Mars is, relative to Earth? 

Tacoma in relation to Seattle and McChord where he thought the chutes were coming from. The guy had some estimation of things ... he was making estimates of things.  And he very clearly knew something about the surroundings. That is established fact.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 01:34:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5153 on: November 29, 2019, 12:07:46 AM »
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Peterson is not credible IMO. He gets just about everything wrong. His name is mentioned zero times anywhere...

Peterson got the refueling wrong, he got the money bag wrong, the money was NOT counted at the NWA facility at SEATAC, and it was Al Lee and a Seattle police detective who drove out to the aircraft with the money, parachutes, and maps/approach plates/meals.  And Peterson makes additional mistakes.

Peterson's claims are nonsense.

Peterson clearly says part of what he is reporting are things he heard about. Peterson has mixed this all up over the years. He got his facts mixed up but that doesn’t mean he fabricated anything. What would be his incentive lie and just come up with the tank balancing thing out of his arse? He was right about the box lunches being requested and Cooper being in the laboratory for 30-45 min, the fbi wanting to shoot up the plane.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5154 on: November 29, 2019, 12:37:02 AM »
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Peterson is not credible IMO. He gets just about everything wrong. His name is mentioned zero times anywhere...

Peterson got the refueling wrong, he got the money bag wrong, the money was NOT counted at the NWA facility at SEATAC, and it was Al Lee and a Seattle police detective who drove out to the aircraft with the money, parachutes, and maps/approach plates/meals.  And Peterson makes additional mistakes.

Peterson's claims are nonsense.

Peterson clearly says part of what he is reporting are things he heard about. Peterson has mixed this all up over the years. He got his facts mixed up but that doesn’t mean he fabricated anything. What would be his incentive lie and just come up with the tank balancing thing out of his arse? He was right about the box lunches being requested and Cooper being in the laboratory for 30-45 min, the fbi wanting to shoot up the plane.

Nope again. Cooper was in the lav for 3-4 mins according to Tina's testimony. "A short time" to quote another crew member. How would Peterson know how long Cooper was in the lav? From his decoder ring telephone to the crew?  :-X  What Petey is saying about the lav is impossible! Tell Petey to concentrate on what George Washington did with the cherry tree!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 12:40:33 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5155 on: November 29, 2019, 08:29:47 AM »
There is no timeline for Cooper to be in the bathroom that long, no time to have a mechanic count the money in a sealed bag. People like to get involved in cases like this. Especially after the fact. 
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5156 on: November 29, 2019, 10:31:53 AM »
I would wager 50 dollars that Tina could identify Tacoma from the air today...
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5157 on: November 29, 2019, 01:30:31 PM »
Question for anyone, whether you live in the area or not.  A plane takes off from Portland, flies north to SEATAC (which is south of Seattle), what major cities would you see if you looked down after you left Portland, flew for 30 minutes, but before you landed at SEATAC?  Cleveland, New York, Dallas??

And another one.  If you know you are flying from Portland to SEATAC, what military bases would be on that route?  Fort Bragg, Fort Benning, Andrews Air Force Base??

When you answer these questions, how can you possibly think that Cooper was intimate with the area? He could have been, but he also could have just looked at a map.  As Nicky said in an earlier post, I think: He was trying to act like he knew more than everyone else.  Larry Carr even called him a "know it all"

Knowing the area, being Canadian, etc. are all parts of the story that have made it into people's minds.  What if none of this is accurate?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 01:31:01 PM by fcastle866 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5158 on: November 29, 2019, 01:44:50 PM »
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Question for anyone, whether you live in the area or not.  A plane takes off from Portland, flies north to SEATAC (which is south of Seattle), what major cities would you see if you looked down after you left Portland, flew for 30 minutes, but before you landed at SEATAC?  Cleveland, New York, Dallas??

And another one.  If you know you are flying from Portland to SEATAC, what military bases would be on that route?  Fort Bragg, Fort Benning, Andrews Air Force Base??

When you answer these questions, how can you possibly think that Cooper was intimate with the area? He could have been, but he also could have just looked at a map.  As Nicky said in an earlier post, I think: He was trying to act like he knew more than everyone else.  Larry Carr even called him a "know it all"

Knowing the area, being Canadian, etc. are all parts of the story that have made it into people's minds.  What if none of this is accurate?

Cooper not only correctly named a place from the air, and gave its relative position, he gave the correct driving time from one place to another. Thats more than guessing.   

What's the BIG DEAL with this?     
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 02:07:51 PM by georger »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5159 on: November 29, 2019, 05:39:50 PM »
I think it is highly unlikely Tina could recognize Tacoma from the air, 30 minutes before sunset, on a overcast and rainy night.

Tina was 22 years old and living in Minneapolis. Why would she be familiar with the Seattle region from the air at night? How would she verify the location? Are we to believe she got up from her seat next to DBC and looked out the window? Not to mention, there was not a window directly next to Cooper--the engine was on the other side of the fuselage wall. However, there was a window slightly forward of DBC's seat.

What we have here is a comment from Cooper that Tina probably couldn't confirm but noted. Again, I lived in Seattle for several years and have flown out of the area many times. Tacoma is not recognizable unless you are familiar with the tide flats. If not, good luck.

Perhaps the jet was over Tacoma, perhaps it wasn't. Nonetheless, DBC apparently made the comment. Why? For what purpose?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 05:53:07 PM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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