Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1409078 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2580 on: February 04, 2018, 10:25:39 AM »
Tom points out a statement made about no prints of value..I too asked about this comment, then I found other reports of prints found that contradict the first statement Tom has been using..it appears they do have prints of value..
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Offline JenSam17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2581 on: February 04, 2018, 01:23:26 PM »
So many conflicting statements... how can we be sure of anything?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2582 on: February 04, 2018, 01:39:23 PM »
the same goes for the weather...records show light rain while residents state different...Dona Elliott stated it was raining hard in Amboy. she said she heard 305 flying over which I find odd..when it's raining hard it dampens any sound. another report is verified in the 302's about a plane, and hard rain...I believe the sounds they heard were the fighter jets flying over...he stated it sounded like it was stalling....305 was no where near stalling..the fighter jets had trouble at low speeds following the plane...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 01:41:08 PM by Shutter »
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2583 on: February 04, 2018, 01:55:50 PM »
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the same goes for the weather...records show light rain while residents state different...Dona Elliott stated it was raining hard in Amboy. she said she heard 305 flying over which I find odd..when it's raining hard it dampens any sound. another report is verified in the 302's about a plane, and hard rain...I believe the sounds they heard were the fighter jets flying over...he stated it sounded like it was stalling....305 was no where near stalling..the fighter jets had trouble at low speeds following the plane...

At the times mentioned in those attachments, the airliner was at 10,000 feet and in Oregon and well south of the Columbia River.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2584 on: February 04, 2018, 03:19:21 PM »
actually, the report states a time of 8:15 which is around Battleground/Orchards if using the flight path map...I still believe it's the fighter jets making all the noise..305 would be too high to hear, especially with hard rain..

The other document is stating a time when the clouds started to clear..
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 03:26:06 PM by Shutter »
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2585 on: February 04, 2018, 05:21:58 PM »
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the same goes for the weather...records show light rain while residents state different...Dona Elliott stated it was raining hard in Amboy. she said she heard 305 flying over which I find odd..when it's raining hard it dampens any sound. another report is verified in the 302's about a plane, and hard rain...I believe the sounds they heard were the fighter jets flying over...he stated it sounded like it was stalling....305 was no where near stalling..the fighter jets had trouble at low speeds following the plane...

That may be exactly what happened, but no way to prove it.
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georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2586 on: February 04, 2018, 05:24:49 PM »
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So many conflicting statements... how can we be sure of anything?

And its for that very reason that this case may never be settled. Until harder evidence is available - if it even is available which may not be! Hard forensic evidence usually trumps everything else.   
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2587 on: February 04, 2018, 05:40:35 PM »
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actually, the report states a time of 8:15 which is around Battleground/Orchards if using the flight path map...I still believe it's the fighter jets making all the noise..305 would be too high to hear, especially with hard rain..

The other document is stating a time when the clouds started to clear..

The George Harrison papers states that the airliner was 23 DME miles (nautical miles) south of the Portland VORTAC (present day Battleground VORTAC) at 8:18 PM PST.  This information was undoubtedly obtained in real time from the flight crew over the ARINC phone patch.  A more detailed discussion of this and other timing factors is in the second post on the "NWA 305 FLIGHT PATH ANALYSIS - REVISITED" thread.

So if the airliner was at the Portland VORTAC at 8:15 PM, then it would have to fly 23 DME miles in three minutes at an average speed of 460 Knots ground speed.  That simply was not possible with the landing gear down and rear stairs down.
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2588 on: February 04, 2018, 05:43:24 PM »
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So many conflicting statements... how can we be sure of anything?

And its for that very reason that this case may never be settled. Until harder evidence is available - if it even is available which may not be! Hard forensic evidence usually trumps everything else.

Unpeeling the onion and ignoring the myths (despite Bruce's complaints) is a good place to start.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2589 on: February 04, 2018, 05:43:43 PM »
I believe there is more of a time gap than 3 minutes...I'll check the transcripts..I think it was around 8:13:30 seconds when passing Battleground, and around 7 minutes to reach Canby...
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2590 on: February 04, 2018, 05:49:07 PM »
8:22 they report 23 DME from Portland..if you go by 3 miles a minute that sounds right..they pass over Battleground (according to the map) after the 8:13 mark.......8 x 3= 24?
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2591 on: February 04, 2018, 05:50:53 PM »
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I believe there is more of a time gap than 3 minutes...I'll check the transcripts..I think it was around 8:13:30 seconds when passing Battleground, and around 7 minutes to reach Canby...

Canby intersection is 27 DME miles from the Portland/Battleground VORTAC and the actual ground speed of the airliner was about 3 nautical miles per minute.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2592 on: February 04, 2018, 05:51:54 PM »
correct, it's been a while..I was thinking 23 miles DME was Canby...my mistake
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Offline DavidV

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2593 on: February 10, 2018, 02:11:23 PM »
Quick question of clarification: When Scott mentioned they were at Lofall intersection awaiting the money and chutes, he means the Lofall area North of Seattle adjacent the Hood Canal? Or does Lofall stand for something else?

Thank you.
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Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #2594 on: February 10, 2018, 04:04:30 PM »
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Quick question of clarification: When Scott mentioned they were at Lofall intersection awaiting the money and chutes, he means the Lofall area North of Seattle adjacent the Hood Canal? Or does Lofall stand for something else?

Thank you.

The Lofall Intersection was located on the Seattle VORTAC 307 radial and 29 DME miles from the station.  The Seattle VORTAC was located between the parallel runways and on the south side of the SEATAC airport.  So Lofall was in a generally northwest direction from the SEATAC airport and was apparently located over a narrow waterway in 1971.

There was some rain with icing in the area of the intersection so the airliner was making some deviations from a standard holding pattern in order to stay out of the rain and ice.  They were, of course, keeping the Seattle ATC Center informed of what they were doing.
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